'08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "Spiritual" Leadership
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'08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "Spi... - 11/5/2008 8:14:43 PM
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solomonsprayer
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I think one of the versus in the Bible that stands out to me in this election is the one that says man shall not live by bread alone, but by the Word as well....(don't know exact verse).
We as humans need spiritual food just as much as we need physical/material comforts. I felt this election showed humans and Americans crave in their souls spiritual food and truth.
Obama in many ways offered some of that. I'm not going to argue whether he is truly a Christian or not and/or what parts of his politics and message/vision are in agreement iwth Christianity (not qualified to do so...I"m sure many theologians and pastors are better fit for that), but Obama did deliver a spiritual kind of message. His words offered a combination of moral and metaphysical truths and promises that people wanted and needed to hear. I wish McCain would have communicated his values and vision in much teh same way.
I just feel people are hungry (spiritually and literally) and will flock to someone who seems to offer both needs.
Any thoughts?
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:24:07 PM
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Dancre
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I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. People wanted a new savior without holes in his hands who would give them what they wanted: Abortion, homosexuality, and everything they ever wanted. Bleed the rich so I can stay at home and not work. Let Gay people marry and abort the babies. Sorry, but none of that is from God. I feel that God gave America what they wanted, a brand new spanking savior without the pesky holes, who wouldn't tell them what they can and can't do. Now they can run a muck and do whatever. It may be spiritual, but it's not from God.
kim
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:28:53 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. People wanted a new savior without holes in his hands who would give them what they wanted: Abortion, homosexuality, and everything they ever wanted. Bleed the rich so I can stay at home and not work. Let Gay people marry and abort the babies. Sorry, but none of that is from God. I feel that God gave America what they wanted, a brand new spanking savior without the pesky holes, who wouldn't tell them what they can and can't do. Now they can run a muck and do whatever. It may be spiritual, but it's not from God.
kim
Hi Kim,
Thank you for your thoughts. I wanted to just mention that by "spiritual" I meant something greater than ourselves in a kind of moral and metaphysical way. I don't necessarily mean Christian spirituality, though I certainly believe that is the only spirituality that will meet our quench of thirst and hunger on the inside...But what Obama did do was offer a kind of spiritual message in his campaign and presentation of himself and his values/vision/beliefs.
My point was to say that people do crave something of a spiritual nature. And I think in this election, it showed in their flocking towards Obama.
It is an argument, but it's what I felt. 
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:29:08 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3166
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This wasn't an election of people looking for a spiritual leader. It was an election built on fear and guilt and revenge.
Fear of all the gloom and doom.
Guilt...racial.
Revenge....racial.
We elected someone wihtout a true track record, someone we don't know. We will find out.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:31:52 PM
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solomonsprayer
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To be sure, I think there were other factors involved too that made people go with Obama, but that a type of spirituality was a part of it too.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:33:16 PM
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leonfigg3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
We as humans need spiritual food just as much as we need physical/material comforts. I felt this election showed humans and Americans crave in their souls spiritual food and truth.
Obama in many ways offered some of that.
Obama did deliver a spiritual kind of message. His words offered a combination of moral and metaphysical truths and promises that people wanted and needed to hear.
Can you please be more specific. I am not sure we've been listening to the same Obama speeches.
As my grandfather indicated some years ago, successful politicians tell us what we want to hear, not what we need to hear. If they ever told us what we needed to hear, they (the politicians) would not be in politics very long.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:37:02 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
This wasn't an election of people looking for a spiritual leader. It was an election built on fear and guilt and revenge.
Fear of all the gloom and doom.
Guilt...racial.
Revenge....racial.
We elected someone wihtout a true track record, someone we don't know. We will find out.
Hi Son,
I think there are many facets to why people voted for Obama and some of them were good and others bad. My point was that there was what seemed to be a spiritual aspect to Obama's message and presentation of self and his campaign that attracted people (it was not negative, but a positive type of spirituality).
I would agree with some of your other parts partially. I don't think the American public knows enough about Obama and that his track record (much like Reagan when he went into public office from Gov. of CA to President) is a bit scarce.
But while that may be true, I think there are many admirable qualities about Obama as a person and also his success in life and his ability to articulate a vision that inspires many on a deep level.
My original point, though, was that part of the appeal of Obama and what Americans craved was a kind of "spiritual" leadership.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:46:42 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
We as humans need spiritual food just as much as we need physical/material comforts. I felt this election showed humans and Americans crave in their souls spiritual food and truth.
Obama in many ways offered some of that.
Obama did deliver a spiritual kind of message. His words offered a combination of moral and metaphysical truths and promises that people wanted and needed to hear.
Can you please be more specific. I am not sure we've been listening to the same Obama speeches.
As my grandfather indicated some years ago, successful politicians tell us what we want to hear, not what we need to hear. If they ever told us what we needed to hear, they (the politicians) would not be in politics very long.
I'll try to think more about this over the next few days, but just a quick answer might be that I feel Obama speaks with a warm and compassionate/caring voice of love towards all people - not just Americans and that he seeks to better the human condition in every form for all (transcending politics, country, race, gender, etc.). His speaks with a message of love and justice (for the oppressed), but also warns against greed, corruption, hate, etc. ...
His speech last night after winning the election had examples of that, where he said things like America's might is not built upon the sword or weapons, but upon the sharpness of our ideas/ideals......He articulates spiritual truths and meaning that people from all backgrounds can latch onto. I thought his greatest speech was the one titled "A More Perfect Union" - the one he gave after the revelations of Rev. Jeremiah Wright's ostensibly hate-filled sermons were unearthed and released for public consumption.
There is a kind of spirituality beyond mere politics - one that addresses and articulates ideals - that people crave. It offers/brings greater hope and meaning to life for many. ...Let me think more on this and try to articulate it better. But it was cetainly something I sensed.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:52:36 PM
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solomonsprayer
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Another thing too is that there is also "beauty" in spiritual truth. Now whether Obama himself is a Christian or not or whether various points of his message/vision are aligned with Chrisitanity, again, I won't get into...But even when we read the Bible we notice beauty and meaning and goodness in God's Word and Truth.
It brings purpose and meaning and light into our lives. That beauty and substinance are things are souls crave and what can make something/someone attractive (or ugly when that ideal is corrupted).
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 11/5/2008 8:58:55 PM >
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:54:15 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2019
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
This wasn't an election of people looking for a spiritual leader. It was an election built on fear and guilt and revenge. Fear of all the gloom and doom.
I've seen much more fear and doom and gloom from the supposedly "anti-fear-politics" Republicans than I have from the Democrats. Sure, Obama had his share of "No more Bush politics" attacks, but by-and-large his message was one of unity and hope.
For all the years I've heard Republicans go on and on about alleged liberal fearmongering, what I've seen this election cycle has been pathetic. Reading over the threads these last few months, the level and depths of paranoia has been staggering. Obama's a muslim. Obama's not a citizen. Obama's a terrorist. Is Obama like Hitler? Is the US like Maoist China? Obama wants to rewrite the Constitution. Obama will usher in a radical, communist regime. And of course, the omni-present "A vote for the Republican is a vote for God."
If you guys can't see that you're doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing, then you're letting your disagreements with his policies cloud your judgment.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:57:12 PM
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leonfigg3
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solomonsprayer,
Thank you for clarification.
I believe I can understand where you are coming from.
My next question, though, would be whether or not you heard what you heard because he actually said it, or gave you a reason to believe it was what he was saying, or did you hear what you wanted to hear?
Did you think through what you believe you heard?
Just asking, I am not trying to get you to second quess yourself, or change how you believe.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 8:57:33 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1305
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I see what you are saying. Yeap, they were looking for something spiritual and bigger than themselves, so God gave them one. People don't want Jesus, He's much too restrictive, so they found a new one. You are right, people do want a spiritual experience. It's just sad they found one in the wrong person.
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. People wanted a new savior without holes in his hands who would give them what they wanted: Abortion, homosexuality, and everything they ever wanted. Bleed the rich so I can stay at home and not work. Let Gay people marry and abort the babies. Sorry, but none of that is from God. I feel that God gave America what they wanted, a brand new spanking savior without the pesky holes, who wouldn't tell them what they can and can't do. Now they can run a muck and do whatever. It may be spiritual, but it's not from God.
kim
Hi Kim,
Thank you for your thoughts. I wanted to just mention that by "spiritual" I meant something greater than ourselves in a kind of moral and metaphysical way. I don't necessarily mean Christian spirituality, though I certainly believe that is the only spirituality that will meet our quench of thirst and hunger on the inside...But what Obama did do was offer a kind of spiritual message in his campaign and presentation of himself and his values/vision/beliefs.
My point was to say that people do crave something of a spiritual nature. And I think in this election, it showed in their flocking towards Obama.
It is an argument, but it's what I felt.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 9:04:08 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 866
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
This wasn't an election of people looking for a spiritual leader. It was an election built on fear and guilt and revenge. Fear of all the gloom and doom.
I've seen much more fear and doom and gloom from the supposedly "anti-fear-politics" Republicans than I have from the Democrats. Sure, Obama had his share of "No more Bush politics" attacks, but by-and-large his message was one of unity and hope.
For all the years I've heard Republicans go on and on about alleged liberal fearmongering, what I've seen this election cycle has been pathetic. Reading over the threads these last few months, the level and depths of paranoia has been staggering. Obama's a muslim. Obama's not a citizen. Obama's a terrorist. Is Obama like Hitler? Is the US like Maoist China? Obama wants to rewrite the Constitution. Obama will usher in a radical, communist regime. And of course, the omni-present "A vote for the Republican is a vote for God."
If you guys can't see that you're doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing, then you're letting your disagreements with his policies cloud your judgment.
-Dan.
Hi iluvatar,
I can certainly agree with your rebuke here. I think there has been some hypocrisy on the side of the Right/Conversatives in this regards.
Still, we need to try to understand even that. Some of it may honestly be ignorance and lack of education and/or understanding of Obama. Sometimes peple honestly don't know. What's in a man's heart is what counts. Some of it too may be fear and hate and in those cases it is hypocritical and we need to pray for all people - Christians and others - to learn to get beyond that and seek greater unity, understanding, and love. Respectful dialogue is certain one means to a beginning with that.
Keep up the love!
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 9:06:24 PM
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solomonsprayer
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Need to get dinner..brb...good dialogue!
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 9:06:57 PM
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Dancre
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happy eats!!!
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 9:18:03 PM
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Churchmouse26
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. People wanted a new savior without holes in his hands who would give them what they wanted: Abortion, homosexuality, and everything they ever wanted. Bleed the rich so I can stay at home and not work. Let Gay people marry and abort the babies. Sorry, but none of that is from God. I feel that God gave America what they wanted, a brand new spanking savior without the pesky holes, who wouldn't tell them what they can and can't do. Now they can run a muck and do whatever. It may be spiritual, but it's not from God.
kim
Hi Kim,
Thank you for your thoughts. I wanted to just mention that by "spiritual" I meant something greater than ourselves in a kind of moral and metaphysical way. I don't necessarily mean Christian spirituality, though I certainly believe that is the only spirituality that will meet our quench of thirst and hunger on the inside...But what Obama did do was offer a kind of spiritual message in his campaign and presentation of himself and his values/vision/beliefs.
My point was to say that people do crave something of a spiritual nature. And I think in this election, it showed in their flocking towards Obama.
It is an argument, but it's what I felt.
What is this "metaphysical" you speak of? You say you "don't necessarily mean Christian spirituality," in which case, what other kind of "spirituality" is it, and from where does it originate? You seem to be suggesting that this "spirituality" Obama is offering is a good and commendable thing that we as Christians should be willing or (perhaps) even motivated to buy into. I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Most cults and Eastern religions offer "spirituality" and some may even include parts of the Truth, but they are opposed to God and Christ and lead their adherents off onto a destructive spiritual path. I am reminded of some early quotes from Augustine and the "God-shaped void" that exists inside each one of us; but before accepting any new type of teachings, I'd be sure to carefully compare them with the Word of God to make sure they match up.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 9:41:58 PM
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Dancre
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quote:
What is this "metaphysical" you speak of? You say you "don't necessarily mean Christian spirituality," in which case, what other kind of "spirituality" is it, and from where does it originate? You seem to be suggesting that this "spirituality" Obama is offering is a good and commendable thing that we as Christians should be willing or (perhaps) even motivated to buy into. I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Most cults and Eastern religions offer "spirituality" and some may even include parts of the Truth, but they are opposed to God and Christ and lead their adherents off onto a destructive spiritual path. I am reminded of some early quotes from Augustine and the "God-shaped void" that exists inside each one of us; but before accepting any new type of teachings, I'd be sure to carefully compare them with the Word of God to make sure they match up.
I'm going to add to Church's post. Solomen, I'm not for sure why you find this a good thing? IF anything, sirens should be blaring, red flags flying, lights shining off and on. Folks are flocking to Obama b/c they think he will fill a void in their lives, but he can't. God gave them this new Savior b/c they wanted a king and not God. They didn't care for the ways of God and decided to take another route. This isn't a good thing, it's a bad thing. A very bad thing. Yes, I've seen the glistening eyes and worshiping faces and it bothered me, even frightened me. It's one thing to agree with someone, a totally different thing when that someone worships another. And that's what folks are doing, worshiping a human being that can't fill any needs. Very bad!!! These people need our prayers and the Word of God or they are in very big trouble.
kim
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 9:47:10 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 866
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
solomonsprayer,
Thank you for clarification.
I believe I can understand where you are coming from.
My next question, though, would be whether or not you heard what you heard because he actually said it, or gave you a reason to believe it was what he was saying, or did you hear what you wanted to hear?
Did you think through what you believe you heard?
Just asking, I am not trying to get you to second quess yourself, or change how you believe.
I see. I think there is definitely something that resonates with me on a spiritual level with Barack Obama. I mentioned in a nother reponse that he gives deeper meaning to things in his speeches and answers to questions. It doesn't happen all the time, but he does it every now and then. It's not just a witty remark or intelligent answer to something, but like a philosophical and beautifully deep explanation or articulation of some value or ideal that makes sense the way he says it and taps into deeper spiritual values and truths.
I gave a couple examples already, but I didn't always sense the same with McCain. I'm not sure if it was his style of presenting things or the content or both. Maybe this is still not adequate an explanation, but I am a bit tired out atm and need to get some rest for work.
I"m sure there'll be more dialogue and opportunities for me to respond later on.
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RE: '08 Elections Showed America (& Humans) Crave "... - 11/5/2008 9:58:52 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
solomonsprayer,
Thank you for clarification.
I believe I can understand where you are coming from.
My next question, though, would be whether or not you heard what you heard because he actually said it, or gave you a reason to believe it was what he was saying, or did you hear what you wanted to hear?
Did you think through what you believe you heard?
Just asking, I am not trying to get you to second quess yourself, or change how you believe.
I see. I think there is definitely something that resonates with me on a spiritual level with Barack Obama. I mentioned in a nother reponse that he gives deeper meaning to things in his speeches and answers to questions. It doesn't happen all the time, but he does it every now and then. It's not just a witty remark or intelligent answer to something, but like a philosophical and beautifully deep explanation or articulation of some value or ideal that makes sense the way he says it and taps into deeper spiritual values and truths.
I gave a couple examples already, but I didn't always sense the same with McCain. I'm not sure if it was his style of presenting things or the content or both. Maybe this is still not adequate an explanation, but I am a bit tired out atm and need to get some rest for work.
I"m sure there'll be more dialogue and opportunities for me to respond later on.
Psst, you might want to check out THIS THREAD.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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