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Am I self-hating? - 12/1/2008 8:00:17 PM
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lea84
Posts: 51
Joined: 3/7/2006
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Almost my entire life, I've noticed that I've had a big issue with getting along with others who are from the same ethnic background as I am or from very similar backgrounds. I can't seem to get along with anyone from a Middle Eastern or Indian background at all, including being good friends with them.
I guess the main reason why I have trouble getting along with people is because I converted to Christianity from the beliefs my parents raised me with. That alone is a big taboo. And the fact that I am an unmarried young woman who is not living under the supervision of my parents is another big problem. I've noticed that a lot of people around my age from my ethnic background have many "expectations" that I can't live up to (or would rather not) and that tends to cause conflict.
I have an acquaintance who is white and after I talked to him about this, he said I was just "being another self-hating Michelle Malkin." I was a little appalled at his words but I started to think that maybe it was true. Am I self-hating?
I distance myself from a lot of things of my ethnic background...not because I'm ashamed (ok, maybe a little but keep reading) but mostly because it reminds me of a lot of negativity that I had to grow up with in the name of "it's your culture". So being abused is part of my culture? Being told that I can't decide my spiritual beliefs for myself unless my parents give me permission is my culture? of course I distanced myself. Even to this day, after being on my own for so long, I get bad feelings just thinking about it.
I consider myself an American and leave it at that. I no longer care to state where my ancestors came from and all that stuff-- I live in the US, I eat cheerios and pancakes for breakfast, I drive a chevy, I like to do typical things decent girls do-- so why do I need to identify things that don't affect me? I think this may be the big part of why a lot of people from my ethnic background see me as offensive and even "indecent".
Yet I have many of my friends/acquaintances tell me that I'm one of the most conservative and decent Christian women they've ever met (not trying to boast). I've even had some of their parents say that! And when a parent tells you that you're a good influence on their kid, that's supposed to be bad?
It's amazing what people of non-American ethnic heritages will think is bad and indecent and what most Americans think is decent. I feel like I walk the line between them (pardon the Johnny Cash). And to be honest I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here, maybe you all can ask me some more questions, but I can say that over the years after hearing many comments, getting the cold shoulder, and even having gossip said about me, you start thinking it too.
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/2/2008 12:15:02 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11738
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From: Here, now
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Where are your parents from, Lea?
I didn't see anything from your post that makes me think you are self-hating. I was very closely related to a first-generation-born-in-this-country Irishman who cared not a whit for anything Irish, and if anyone asked where he came from (meaning his people) he just said "America." He wasn't self-hating--he just did not want to live in the past.
I am not sure what you can do about it. Except be content with the friends you have and pray for those who are shunning you.
Some of the things that single women do today were considered forbidden not that long ago in America, too. A woman who lived alone in an apartment was considered to be of low morals (if you had female roommates, it was a *little* less scandalous  ), and I doubt a bank would have given many mortgages to single women. If women worked, there were "decent" jobs--like a schoolteacher or a nurse--and most other jobs were considered beneath "good girls." And, of course, once you got married, you were not supposed to work anymore, at all. Things have changed.
I am assuming your family is from a culture that expects young women to be children in their fathers' houses until he finds a suitable husband for them--is that right?
You don't say how old you are, but you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and are a fine and upstanding young woman. I would listen to my friends' parents. 
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/2/2008 1:21:43 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1946
Joined: 9/26/2007
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Lea, my mother was first generation, and she had exactly the same problem. She was one foot in the old country and one foot in America, and her parents raised her like the old country. Her parents were abusive/neglectful, and she handled that by deciding she didn't like her racial background (I'm guessing that was more benign than admitting her parents were awful).
quote:
ORIGINAL: lea84
I guess the main reason why I have trouble getting along with people is because I converted to Christianity from the beliefs my parents raised me with. That alone is a big taboo. And the fact that I am an unmarried young woman who is not living under the supervision of my parents is another big problem. I've noticed that a lot of people around my age from my ethnic background have many "expectations" that I can't live up to (or would rather not) and that tends to cause conflict.
So you have a culture clash racially and spiritually. Uff. This isn't self-hating, this is juggling and balancing three cultures: the old country, the secular new country, and the Christian culture. You are being pulled three directions at once (and I think you deserve a medal for not losing your sanity over it).
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I have an acquaintance who is white and after I talked to him about this, he said I was just "being another self-hating Michelle Malkin." I was a little appalled at his words but I started to think that maybe it was true. Am I self-hating?
I think he has little idea what life is like for you - you aren't completely at home anywhere. It's kind of like what missionaries face - they're from one culture, they serve and love another culture, and the only time they are at peace is on an airplane.
quote:
I distance myself from a lot of things of my ethnic background...not because I'm ashamed (ok, maybe a little but keep reading) but mostly because it reminds me of a lot of negativity that I had to grow up with in the name of "it's your culture". So being abused is part of my culture? Being told that I can't decide my spiritual beliefs for myself unless my parents give me permission is my culture? of course I distanced myself. Even to this day, after being on my own for so long, I get bad feelings just thinking about it.
You're feeling guilt for not believing your parents like you did as a little kid. Parents are gods, and God says when we're old we return to our parents' values if we were raised right. The pull is there even if we were raised wrong. The problem is, culture is usually secular or heretical, and you've been taught some deep expectations that aren't biblical. It's only as adults we realize we have to choose from several places, and to choose one is to reject the other choices. God calls us to Himself, and we have to go, no matter what losses we get in the process. You have suffered deep losses - our families are our biggest support as children, and healthy families continue that support for life. Some of us have to go it alone, and it's scary and lonely.
quote:
I consider myself an American and leave it at that. I no longer care to state where my ancestors came from and all that stuff-- I live in the US, I eat cheerios and pancakes for breakfast, I drive a chevy, I like to do typical things decent girls do-- so why do I need to identify things that don't affect me? I think this may be the big part of why a lot of people from my ethnic background see me as offensive and even "indecent".
Well, by their standards, you are a traitor. But consider this: when the Apostle Paul became a Christian, he lost his high position as a Pharisee. Those were the top guys, and Paul joined the rag-tag band of nobodies. People kept trying to kill him (like he'd been jailing and killing Christians earlier). He eventually lost his freedom (several years under arrest) and then his life. But he never regretted his loss because he said all things were loss compared to knowing Christ! Whoo-woo! Like the person who discovers an expensive pearl in a field, sells everything they own and buys the field with the money. We give up everything that isn't Christ, and in reality, we suffer no loss. Yeah, we feel loss now, but it's an either/or situation, and we give the unimportant things away, inspite of feelings. Jesus said we could lose mother, father, children, farms and so on for His sake, and it's OK.
Paul bore the marks of his torture as badges of honor because he suffered gladly for Christ. You and I can bear the loneliness and loss of status and understanding from our families because we are happy to suffer for Christ, just like He did for us. It's an honor. Let the pain remind you Whose you are.
quote:
Yet I have many of my friends/acquaintances tell me that I'm one of the most conservative and decent Christian women they've ever met (not trying to boast). I've even had some of their parents say that! And when a parent tells you that you're a good influence on their kid, that's supposed to be bad?
No. Remember the culture clash: your culture of origin says girls on their own are bad. Christian culture says obedient Christians are good. Which culture is to be believed? You chose wisely.
quote:
It's amazing what people of non-American ethnic heritages will think is bad and indecent and what most Americans think is decent. I feel like I walk the line between them (pardon the Johnny Cash). And to be honest I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here, maybe you all can ask me some more questions, but I can say that over the years after hearing many comments, getting the cold shoulder, and even having gossip said about me, you start thinking it too.
Think of it as circles. Here is your racial circle, with its standards. There is the Christian circle, with its standards. Actually, they both are mountain tops, and you can't stand with one foot on each - they're too far apart. You chose to stand on God's mountain, and people on the other mountain are throwing rocks at you because you aren't over there. They both can't be right. There aren't two realities, only one and then some fakes. The fakes have people shouting they are right. Look at the bases - man-made and death-giving or God-made and life-giving. And at the beginning, it always goes back to the cross and the empty tomb.
So when your pain and people's yelling overwhelms you, go back to the cross and the empty tomb. There can't be any other way. You chose right. May God bless and rescue those who don't know what you know, and maybe He's going to use you to go tell some of them. You can do that better than a plain-vanilla American like me could.
God bless you, dear sister in the Lord. You sound like the kind of person I would enjoy as a good friend. Keep on keeping on, and may God bless you in Himself, and eventually with a husband who will comfort you as well, and start a new family that's doing it right. (((Hugs))) Someday in heaven we'll show our scars and God will be glorified, and you and I will hug, dance, cry and laugh, and it will be OK.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/2/2008 3:23:42 PM
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DailyBread49
Posts: 9
Joined: 9/29/2008
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Lea84, Congratulations! You are a real American! You no longer feel the need to refer to yourself as a "African American," "Mexican American," etc.
Instead, you refer to yourself as an American!
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/2/2008 7:05:11 PM
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AGilpin93
Posts: 3
Joined: 8/21/2008
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It's a real struggle converting to a new religion. Especially if the religion your converting from has been the traditional religion of your ancestors for years (forever in some cases). But I like to think positive & remember that change takes time. There was a time not long ago when women couldn't vote, when blacks were segregated, etc... Be patient, understanding & remember your loved ones in your prayers & I am confident things will get better with time.
_____________________________
christian t shirts
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/3/2008 3:51:08 PM
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lea84
Posts: 51
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Where are your parents from, Lea?
We're Indian.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I am assuming your family is from a culture that expects young women to be children in their fathers' houses until he finds a suitable husband for them--is that right?
That's true...and I couldn't accept that as my life. I was rather young when I started to truly comprehend what my family's and culture's beliefs were. My questioning became even stronger when I told friends about what I was learning and they asked me if that was what I really believed in, and what I really wanted. And I'm glad that they helped me question that-- I see other young Indian women who have gotten married because their parents said so, or have agreed to arranged marriages because their parents said so, etc. and they seem to feign happiness. One girl who I know from Kerala was told by her parents that once she graduated, she needed to get married  They went so far as to tell her that unless she put up her own ad on an Indian matchmaking website, they would do it for her. Needless to say, she went ahead and went to India and got married to a guy who she only really knows from a website-- A WEBSITE. I couldn't do that no matter how hard I sucked and swallowed my pride. I'm not saying arranged marriages are awful or anything, if that's what you really want. But I didn't want that at all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
You don't say how old you are, but you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and are a fine and upstanding young woman. I would listen to my friends' parents.
Thank you :) I'm glad I can find some positive encouragement here, it's difficult even with other Christians from my ethnic background. I'm almost 25.
quote:
ORIGINAL: deermousie
Lea, my mother was first generation, and she had exactly the same problem. She was one foot in the old country and one foot in America, and her parents raised her like the old country. Her parents were abusive/neglectful, and she handled that by deciding she didn't like her racial background (I'm guessing that was more benign than admitting her parents were awful).
I can see where your mother is coming from-- it is better than admitting your parents are awful. For me to say that my parents are awful, especially to other people from my ethnic background is a sacrilege. You are right-- parents are supposed to be gods practically, even if they only do wrong. You are to not question your parents.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
The problem is, culture is usually secular or heretical, and you've been taught some deep expectations that aren't biblical. It's only as adults we realize we have to choose from several places, and to choose one is to reject the other choices. God calls us to Himself, and we have to go, no matter what losses we get in the process. You have suffered deep losses - our families are our biggest support as children, and healthy families continue that support for life. Some of us have to go it alone, and it's scary and lonely.
I do have to go it alone and it's more lonely than anything-- it's also very hard for people to understand. People have difficulty understanding how you can't get along with others from your own ethnic background, why you aren't on good terms with your parents, why could that be, why is that, how can that, etc. I've even had people hint to me that I must be doing awful things on purpose to elicit those reactions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Well, by their standards, you are a traitor.
Yeah you could say that again. Even people from outside my ethnic background think I'm a traitor in a way. I don't know how to speak any Hindi dialect (nor do I really care to at this moment) and I once had someone say to me "wow that is so sad." But I'm sure if that was my native tongue and I had problems speaking english, there would be something said about that too! I'm seen as a traitor because I don't attend Indian cultural events, I don't care too much for the food anymore, the clothes, the culture in general. Alot of my white friends have a hard time understanding this because they see it as fascinating and look to me as a liason between cultures...and I don't really care to be. That also is a sacrilege with Indians.
To be honest, I prefer just being a decent, law-abiding Christian girl who dresses modestly, goes to church, lives a clean Christian lifestyle and holds Christian beliefs. I just feel like there's so much energy put into being fake with cultural things, and I know that sounds really bad. But I'm not going to put on this fake smile with this fake attitude just so I can get along with people who really don't care about knowing me and accepting me. I think that's what bothers others at times, that I don't care but that also sometimes bothers me. It also is why that acquaintance said I was self-hating.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AGilpin93
It's a real struggle converting to a new religion. Especially if the religion your converting from has been the traditional religion of your ancestors for years (forever in some cases).
That's quite true. Most people from that area of the world-- Middle Easterns and Southeast Asians-- tend to have cultures where the religion is so much a part of the culture the line has been blurred to nothingness. That's part of the reason why I have a hard time with my culture-- I can't make any distinctions between what is cultural or what is nonChristian. I've been doing some research and speaking with lots of other Christians from India and have learned more. But for the most part, I'm not big into it.
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/3/2008 4:00:44 PM
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jaimestarcross
Posts: 766
Joined: 11/28/2005
Status: offline
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You are no longer walking in darkness - your
real identity is as a child of God!
Your new family in Christ contains people from
different parts of the World.
Christ pointed this out to his followers:
Mark 3:35
Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."
*Welcome to the family!
*I figured you are of Indian heritage.
You are accepted by me(I'm black and Christian) -
you are my sister in Christ and I really mean it!
< Message edited by jaimestarcross -- 12/3/2008 4:12:52 PM >
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/6/2008 2:36:35 AM
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StephenJ
Posts: 182
Joined: 12/3/2007
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Wow, I am so sorry to hear that.
Can I ask you something. Do you have any male siblings and do they treat them diffrently?
_____________________________
Rock on!
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/7/2008 8:26:04 PM
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lea84
Posts: 51
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephenJ
Wow, I am so sorry to hear that.
Can I ask you something. Do you have any male siblings and do they treat them diffrently?
One of my siblings is a boy and yes he gets treated differently. Our mother has already told us that if he were to go out and live with a girlfriend and have sex, it would be okay because he's a boy-- even though those things are not considered "decent" things to be doing by Indian standards. Boys are always going to get away with more and be seen as more worthy than girls.
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/14/2008 4:32:56 PM
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lea84
Posts: 51
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
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I also forgot-- being Christian also means wanting to be white...when you aren't.
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/16/2008 10:57:26 AM
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jaimestarcross
Posts: 766
Joined: 11/28/2005
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lea84: People walking in darkness say and do all kinds
of things to hurt us who walk in the Light.
The Bible affirms that light and darkness can't be in fellowship ---
I'm sorry your family/relatives are treating you badly.
*hold fast to the Lord and seek friendships with other
Christians who are standing for God's standards.
Even if it means making friendships with older ladies...
a true friend is priceless - regardless of age!
By networking with them, they maybe able to help you find
a suitable young man who's a Christian??? You never know!
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RE: Am I self-hating? - 12/16/2008 11:19:15 AM
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mrf084
Posts: 103
Joined: 12/14/2007
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Do you love the Lord with all your heart, all your mind , and all your soul? Do you at least attempt to? Do you love your neighbor as yourself? Do you at least attempt to? If you do these things then how can you hate yourself? You are a child of God. Don't except the guilt others would lay at your doorstep. Don't take possession of it. Lay it aside. God Bless
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