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Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/24/2010 2:43:03 PM
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Dred
Posts: 282
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Alabama
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Welcome to the Chat Thread for Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians and their friends to visit and fellowship.
This is not a thread to argue, debate, try to pull people from their communion into yours, or make spiritual judgments. Please do that somewhere else. Thank you in advance for respecting this.
This is a thread for us to get to know each other and talk about what is going on in our lives, families and churches.
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/24/2010 3:20:53 PM
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Dred
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From: Alabama
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This is one of those infrequent years when Easter and Pascha are falling upon the same date. We are all still enjoying Lent and Holy Week, with all its activities, is next week for all of us.
I'm a university professor and wish spring break could be a bit later, so that I could attend more of our Holy Week events. Tomorrow, we have an Annunciation Liturgy, which I would like to attend, but I just don't know that I want to try to impose upon someone to teach my class in the morning. I'm actually planning to attend parts of some services next week. It will be a busy week and then we stay up pretty much the whole night of Pascha--but we love it anyway.
_____________________________
"He was born among us for the cure of the disease of sin." --Gregory of Nyssa
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/24/2010 6:48:00 PM
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walterquez
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I am looking forward to Pascha next week, and I hope I can attend every service of the week. I am especially looking forward to Saturday night when we have our service from around 11 pm to 2 am in the morning and sing, Christ is Risen.
_____________________________
St. Athanasios the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/24/2010 8:35:56 PM
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wk_mt2819
Posts: 1309
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Excited about the new thread! When I get some more time I'll share what we do for the Triduum.
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/24/2010 11:37:47 PM
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wk_mt2819
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Holy Week – my favorite week of the Liturgical Calendar! I’m in the Neocatechumenal Way and we really do it up. On Thursday night, we read from John 13 and each person in our community washes the feet of another. We do Morning Prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours on Friday Morning and fast until the Easter Vigil. On Saturday, we do Morning Prayer and prepare the sanctuary for the Vigil with a very thorough cleaning, make the bread for the Eucharist, and reflect on all 7 of the readings. The Vigil begins at midnight with one of my favorites – the Exultet – beautifully sung! One of my favorite parts is: “O happy fault,O necessary sin of Adam, which gained for us so great a Redeemer!” (How’s that for a paradox? - rejoicing because of Adam’s sin!) Then we go through the 7 readings representing Salvation History and culminate in the celebration of the Final Passover. Two of my favorite songs are “Dayenu (It would have been enough)” and “Shema Israel (Listen Israel!)”. These are songs sung by Jewish people during Passover but have been updated with the Good News. The celebration goes on until about 5:00 a.m. and we have an Agape afterwards. When I first heard about this, I thought it would be way too long and I’d never be able to stay awake the whole time. But it’s such an amazing celebration that the time really flies by. Even my 3 kids think so and they look forward to this every year. I absolutely love it!!!!
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/24/2010 11:52:24 PM
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wk_mt2819
Posts: 1309
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And how could I forget - the Incense!!!! Prayers floating up to heaven!!!!
Dred and WalterQ - does the Eastern Church use incense during the Pascha Liturgy? Do you guys also sing the Exultet?
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/25/2010 1:37:18 PM
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Dred
Posts: 282
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Alabama
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Walter---that would be great if you can make all the services. We have another professor in my department who has been interested in the Orthodox Church for a while and, having read quite a few books in the last year, has recently started attending services. I think I will suggest we each help the other cover some classes so we can make more services next week.
wkirscher---I've been in communion for a liturgical year on Lazarus Saturday and have only attended one Pascha vigil, so I don't know the service so well, but I'm not familiar with the Exultant. As for incense--yes, we use it almost continuously at every service. During most services, the priest will come out and cense the icons. This includes all the in-the-flesh humans who are visibly present as the most important images of God. We bow a bit to the priest as we are censed. Your Easter vigil is longer than I had thought it would be. You are Roman Catholic, right? When you say you fast from Friday morning until the vigil, is this an absolute fast or only from certain things? Do you fast until the Agape meal?
Kielbasa---I think it's okay for me to say your name during Lent, but perhaps I should check  . A lot of people in the U.S. think Orthodox is Greek Orthodox and I have to say "Greek Orthodox" to some people to explain to them about my church, since they've usually heard of that. I'm in the OCA which came from the Russian Church. It is about as big as the Greek Church in the US, but not as well known. In a way, it is appropriate to think of us all as Greek because of that traditional connection with the Greek language. Our first millennium fathers spoke and wrote Greek and so much attention is given to the fathers of the first millennium. Orthodoxy in America is less ethnic than it was when you and I were children. You can expect most services in most churches to be mostly in English. At our little mission, we have no Russians though we are of the Russian tradition. We do have one Greek family. I know that the big Greek church in Birmingham still has some services in Greek, but the Sunday morning liturgy is mostly English. If you visit an Orthodox church, it is very likely you will hear English except for the occasional 'kyrie eleison,' but I think Catholics say that as well, occasionally.
You mentioned incense setting off your smoke alarm. We recently moved into another temporary building and the smoke detector was right over the altar area, so you can guess what happened. So, we put less incense in the censer and got the alarm adjusted and haven't set it off since then. We use it sometimes at home, but haven't had a problem due to the smoke detector being sufficiently far away. Fortunately, there is no smoke detector in my office where I frequently use incense when I pray.
_____________________________
"He was born among us for the cure of the disease of sin." --Gregory of Nyssa
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/25/2010 8:35:11 PM
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wk_mt2819
Posts: 1309
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dred
wkirscher---I've been in communion for a liturgical year on Lazarus Saturday and have only attended one Pascha vigil, so I don't know the service so well, but I'm not familiar with the Exultant. As for incense--yes, we use it almost continuously at every service. During most services, the priest will come out and cense the icons. This includes all the in-the-flesh humans who are visibly present as the most important images of God. We bow a bit to the priest as we are censed. Your Easter vigil is longer than I had thought it would be. You are Roman Catholic, right? When you say you fast from Friday morning until the vigil, is this an absolute fast or only from certain things? Do you fast until the Agape meal?
Censing the "living icons".... Our priests do that too but never though of it that way.
Here is a link to the Exultet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exultet). The prayer is very beautiful, especially when sung by candlelight with the fragrance of incense.
Yes I'm Roman Catholic. In the Neocatechumenal Way, we celebrate the Vigil according to the Liturgy of the Roman Rite but we usually celebrate a baptism and spend more time reflecting on the readings and singing so it takes a bit more time. I do a "water only" fast and then "break-fast" with the eating of the Passover Lamb.
Happy Feast of the Annunciation!!! Theotokos - pray for us!
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/25/2010 9:17:42 PM
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walterquez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kielbasa
But I would like to go to an American Orthodox service, if it were in English. That would be nice. Like Dred said, I think most have it in English. Some of them, like mine, also mix it with Greek, otherwise it is generally in English. With the older generation, the services were done in Greek, but it is not possible now, because many do not speak Greek. And the other Churches I visited were only in English. Sometimes they would say something in Arab in the Antiochian, or Greek in the Greek Churches. I have never attended a Russian yet, but one day I hope to.
Sometimes someone asks me if I am Greek Orthodox. Well, technically, yes I am, because that is where I go. But I try to explain to them that the Greeks, Russians, Romanians, Antiochians, etc... are all simply Orthodox, just different jurisdiction within the Orthodox Church.
_____________________________
St. Athanasios the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/26/2010 11:54:29 AM
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kielbasa
Posts: 180
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Okay, that makes sense  Thank you! I still wish my Greek was better, but it isn't from lack of trying, it is from lack of whatever gene or gift of the Spirit one needs to "click" with other languages.
I love to look at Orthodox Churches. They are visually stunning, and always put me in a worshipful mood, even when we are traveling and I am harried and wrung out. (or maybe especially.)
Dred, maybe today you had better just call me Kathryn . Just to be safe. Kielbasa was the meal we had just eaten when I signed up for this account, and it was so excellent (from the Polish deli my nephew lived over in Yonkers) that I memorialized it  Right now he lives in England, so anything he would bring for dinner would be a bit--bland--by comparison. Or else my screenname would be "Ale," which would be strange, I think.
When it gets warmer, I think I will take my censer outside and pray without worrying about the smoke alarm. I can't imagine one going off during the service.
wkirsher, I have heard of the Neocatechumenal Way, but not around here. Is it your whole parish in it, or just some services?
This will be our first Holy Week with our new priest. I feel sort of sorry for him because the church he came from was in his hometown, and all his friends and family are there. It must be sad to now be away from them for all holidays. So I pray for him, that he doesn't miss them too much and learns to love our church and his new family here.
Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense. I have been typing on it off and on for a long time.
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ANCIENT COMMUNIONS CHAT THREAD
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/27/2010 12:08:08 AM
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mariadreamer
Posts: 172
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: va
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Thanks for starting the thread. I haven't been much on crosswalk lately, mostly because it is frustrating, to be honest - given the nature of this site. When I first started posting here 5 years ago, I belonged to a charismatic Protestant church, having since making the journey back to the Orthodox Church and my husband from an atheist to an Orthodox seminarian. I look forward to friendly discussion.
I conduct the choir at a Carpatho-Russian church and also in a third year of St. Stephen's course in Orthodox theology, so I find many of the theological topics of great interest. This is a very exciting time for us - Holy Week is at the door. I have to prepare for many services this week so my participation is limited for now.
May you all have a blessed journey to Pascha!
Here is a video for Lazarus Saturday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkg6D9iQcKs&NR=1
Maria
http://nativity.es/
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/28/2010 12:48:55 AM
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SouthBend
Posts: 253
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Hey, I think this is going to be a great thread. I already feel more relaxed and at home here.
Anyway, I really want to learn from everyone here and will probably have many questions.
A few months ago, I got a chance to visit the St. Photios Greek Orthodox National Shrine in St. Augustine Fl. (I live in a large city nearby). It was a wonderful experience. I hope to learn much more about the Orthodox faith as time permits.
Peace
_____________________________
"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans 110 A.D.
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/28/2010 5:18:46 PM
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Dred
Posts: 282
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Alabama
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I've been more curious about the Catholic experience, particularly at a worship service, since becoming Orthodox. I know there are similarities and differences. I haven't attended a Catholic service since I was 18, back in the early 80's. Speaking of that, I will tell a story and, those of you who are Catholics can tell me whether the story is primarily amusing or horrifying.
I took an "Intro. to Religion" class as a freshman and we had an out of class assignment in which we were to visit worship services different from our own and write a paper about the experiences. I had been a Baptist since I was a small child, so one of my "different" places was a Catholic church. I went with some Hispanic friends of mine from high school. One of them took me in hand and told me when to do what--kneeling, rising, etc. When it came time for communion, she said "now go up in the line with us and when the priest says 'the body of Christ', you say 'amen' and take it; when he says "the blood of Christ' you say 'amen' and take it." I knew nothing about closed communion and so I did what she told me. It was years before I learned that I shouldn't have. Strangely, my memories of taking communion that day are very vivid, though I can't seem to remember anything else about the service at all.
I've thought it odd that my guide didn't know better than to instruct me to take communion; perhaps she had come from a culture in which everyone was Catholic, but some had not been to church in years and would need such instructions--perhaps some of that combined with an unfortunate ignorance about the rules of her Church, but I am sure she meant well.
Yesterday marked a full liturgical year for me and my family in the Orthodox Church. The story of Lazarus had always greatly touched and fascinated me and now it is even more special. My initial attraction to the OC was mostly due to its theology and its connection to the early Christians, but I've come to greatly appreciate the sacramental life which is much more prominent in "Ancient Communions," as we've called them. The woman who famously reached out and touched His garment was told "your faith has made you well." Apparently, her faith did not come to full maturity or wasn't just the right kind of faith until she touched His garment. Certainly, she might have stayed at a distance and exercised a healing faith in Christ, but that would have been more difficult, despite the effort it took to approach Him. Undoubtedly, there were people who were healed by Christ by exercising a quiet faith at a distance, but it helps us to draw physically near Him. Reaching out to take a sacrament doesn't take much faith, but the reaching out is proof that there is just enough of the right kind of faith to receive what you seek from God. In my prior experience, there was an emphasis on connecting with Christ through our thoughts, which is very important, but I have come to appreciate more ways in which to connect with Him, not just through my mind, but in my senses, my body--the whole person. Crossing myself is like a wordless prayer with my body. As my wife puts it, she likes the Orthodox Church because "the emphasis is in helping you get better." The Liturgy, the sermons, confession, and all the sacraments are intended to heal us.
A blessed Palm Sunday to you all!
--Ed
_____________________________
"He was born among us for the cure of the disease of sin." --Gregory of Nyssa
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/28/2010 11:35:27 PM
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kielbasa
Posts: 180
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Hey, Dred, I had a similar experience when I was around that age. I had gone to Wake Forest to take some summer courses, and the only other person I knew that went to church at all was Catholic and she invited me to go with her.
I remember she told me what to do and when, but mostly I remember being almost scandalized by the fact that *all* the women were wearing blue jeans--and I have never even seen a woman wear slacks in church, much less jeans--even the men wouldn't have worn jeans to church . And they had guitars. I had never seen that, either. (This was in 1973.)
Everyone there was young, so it may well have been a chapel for students. But when it came time to go up for the Eucharist, she just poked me and nodded with her head toward the aisle, like "come on!" so I did. I didn't know that I was not supposed to receive...and I am not sure she did, either.
So a couple of years later, I was in school in Florida, and once again, the only friend I had that went to church was Catholic. (Well, that is not entirely true--I had another friend that went to church and I went with her once. I think it was some kind of cult. Not saying that to be mean, but they were all very nice until they finally got the message I did not want to join their group, and after that they pretty much told her she couldn't have anything to do with me  ) Anyway, to make a long story short(er), I went to Mass with my Catholic friend.
This church was much more like what I had expected the first time, and being such an old hand at attending Mass  , when my friend said "just sit here, I'll be right back," I ignored her and marched right behind her. She didn't notice until we got back to the pew and I wasn't there, and my poor friend was absolutely mortified. I am ashamed that I dismissed her distress as silliness. I understand now. I wish I could find her and tell her that I understand now, but that was thirty years ago and we lost touch.
I think some of it was confusion on the parts of our young friends, and part of it was confusion on the parts of a *lot* of Catholics after Vatican II. I think some were so unsure of what was going on they didn't teach the younger ones very well, and I think we both had friends in that category. Maybe.
Happy Birthday to you and your family! We will celebrate ours on Saturday.
I felt honored at our Palm Sunday Mass--I got to assist in reading the Gospel. The reading was broken into parts, and I got to read the narration. I love to participate in the Liturgy of the Word--it really soaks into my very being. And I love being a Eucharistic Minister and offering the Body or Blood to my brothers and sisters and feeling the connection.
I'm just sitting here smiling right now. This is the best time I have ever had on forums I feel right at home.
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ANCIENT COMMUNIONS CHAT THREAD
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/29/2010 10:19:01 AM
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Dred
Posts: 282
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Alabama
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Well, Kielbasa, I feel better now; at least I didn't have a second incident similar to yours, but you are Catholic now so you are partaking appropriately and I'm sure they all forgive you. Do you think the Eucharist you received those many years ago may have had a slow effect in drawing you eventually to where you are now?
Ah, jeans and guitars at a Catholic church in the 70's--it makes me think of the Talbot brothers, John Michael and Terry. I wonder if there is any way I could get some of that music on CD. I have a cassette tape and a couple of old vinyl records, but don't currently have a working record player or much time for electronic projects.
I'm about to go to Bridegroom Matins. It occurred to me this morning that by neglecting my students only a little (they won't notice and will probably be happy about it if they do) I can attend the first half today and the second half tomorrow.
_____________________________
"He was born among us for the cure of the disease of sin." --Gregory of Nyssa
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/29/2010 10:21:13 AM
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Dred
Posts: 282
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Alabama
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quote:
Happy Birthday to you and your family! We will celebrate ours on Saturday.
And happy birthday to you and yours, too! How many is this?
_____________________________
"He was born among us for the cure of the disease of sin." --Gregory of Nyssa
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RE: Ancient Communions Chat Thread - 3/29/2010 11:31:12 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 430
Joined: 12/22/2007
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A Blessed Holy Week to All!
I was received into the Holy Orthodox Church this past Lazarus Saturday. My daughter came because as she said, "If you want me to be there, I will come." It was her first time in an Orthodox Church.
I look forward to peaceful fellowship with all of you here. It has been a looong journey for me from Protestant Evangelicalism to the ancient faith of Orthodoxy. Many tears have been shed, and many prayers offered up, and now I anticipate life in Christ in the Church and partaking of the Holy Mysteries.
May His Peace rest upon each of you this Pascha Season.
Heavendweller (Darlene Nonna)
_____________________________
See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. I John 3:1
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. But that was only because every Orthodox church I had ever been in was a GO church 
