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Like him or hate him, Bush will be the last pro-life president. Since the most extreme pro-death candidate was voted into office, the days of fighting for the lives of the least among us are over. Sure we can fight for their rights, but since the liberals have the Legislative, Executive, and eventually the Judicial branches of government, resistance is futile.

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Hogwash.

It just means that Democrats will be able to have more abortions.

Nobody's changed anyones' deep-seated views on abortion. Obama won despite his views on abortion, not because of them. As the resident Democrat on this forum, I'll even go so far as to argue that had he been pro-life, I think he would have gotten more votes.

You guys will continue running pro-life candidates, and if you offer one that has the right message, he'll win. This will probably happen in eight, maybe twelve years.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
Actually, this is almost certainly not be true as being a 'pro-life candidate' will now be the equivalent of being a candidate who believes that we should return to the gold standard. Obama is in the unique position to make changing abortion untouchable by future politicians, and he has promised to do so. At that point it simply ceases to be a viable issue in an election.

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Hold on. Ron Paul came a lot closer than you think to winning, and he would have returned us to the Gold Standard.

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Also, abortion is a religious issue, something that the gold standard isn't.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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Like him or hate him, Bush will be the last pro-life president. Since the most extreme pro-death candidate was voted into office, the days of fighting for the lives of the least among us are over. Sure we can fight for their rights, but since the liberals have the Legislative, Executive, and eventually the Judicial branches of government, resistance is futile.

Hogwash.

It just means that Democrats will be able to have more abortions.

Nobody's changed anyones' deep-seated views on abortion. Obama won despite his views on abortion, not because of them. As the resident Democrat on this forum, I'll even go so far as to argue that had he been pro-life, I think he would have gotten more votes.

You guys will continue running pro-life candidates, and if you offer one that has the right message, he'll win. This will probably happen in eight, maybe twelve years.

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You can dismiss it all you want, but Barack's justices will long outlast Barack's term, along with the ability to overturn Roe v. Wade if it goes before the supreme court.

You are wrong on being elected despite being pro-death because that is one of the reasons he was elected.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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You can dismiss it all you want, but Barack's justices will long outlast Barack's term, along with the ability to overturn Roe v. Wade if it goes before the supreme court.

You are wrong on being elected despite being pro-death because that is one of the reasons he was elected.

It's not really Barak's justices that make the difference here; it's FOCA, which makes the Supreme Court irrelevant in this case.

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We need to be very much in prayer right now. There are still four undecided Senate races. They will determine whether the Democrats have a filibuster-proof supermajority or not. There is still a small hope that FOCA could be filibustered. (Very small given there are pro-choice Republicans. But I guess we'll see how pro-life the supposedly pro-life Democrat Senators really are.)

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

Hold on. Ron Paul came a lot closer than you think to winning, and he would have returned us to the Gold Standard.

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how will we know when and if obama will be able to make the dreaded abortion laws come to pass that ya'll are worried about?

like, if it does not happen within 2 years, then could we have hope that it might really not happen?

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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how will we know when and if obama will be able to make the dreaded abortion laws come to pass that ya'll are worried about?

like, if it does not happen within 2 years, then could we have hope that it might really not happen?

Well he promised it would be the first thing he did, and there is nothing stopping him; those are pretty good indicators.

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Well he can sign an executive order allowing public funding for abortion, but FOCA has to pass Congress first. We can write our Senators and pray for a filibuster.

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Well he can sign an executive order allowing public funding for abortion, but FOCA has to pass Congress first. We can write our Senators and pray for a filibuster.

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ORIGINAL: Rockwall

Like him or hate him, Bush will be the last pro-life president. Since the most extreme pro-death candidate was voted into office, the days of fighting for the lives of the least among us are over. Sure we can fight for their rights, but since the liberals have the Legislative, Executive, and eventually the Judicial branches of government, resistance is futile.

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While I am adamantly opposed to abortion, I have YET to see legislation-either for or against it-have a substantive impact on the practice (when it was illegal, people performed it illegally or went to other countries to get it). REAL caring on the other hand is impossible to resist. Wasn't that really the message Jesus gave us in the first place?

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ORIGINAL: blue1914

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ORIGINAL: Rockwall

Like him or hate him, Bush will be the last pro-life president. Since the most extreme pro-death candidate was voted into office, the days of fighting for the lives of the least among us are over. Sure we can fight for their rights, but since the liberals have the Legislative, Executive, and eventually the Judicial branches of government, resistance is futile.

I wonder - exactly what do you mean by this?

Can you (or anyone) substantively tell me how in a MATERIAL way Mr. Bush has decreased the amount of abortions performed in the United States of America? Can you show me substantively how his policies have caused a greater decrease in abortions that Mr. Clinton of 8 years prior-short answer, no, you can't because it's not true. While abortions decreased under Mr. Bush's leadership, they decreased at a greater rate under Mr. Clinton's leadership.

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My point is simple-legislation is NOT the answer to the abortion epidemic. On the books of many states in the Union are laws which make the activities of homosexuals illegal-has that stopped homosexual activity (or eventually even gay marriages in other states, etc.)? NO-mainly because those laws are not enforced-how could they be? Instead, the only way we see homosexual activity ending is when we see those who previously were homosexual come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

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While I am adamantly opposed to abortion, I have YET to see legislation-either for or against it-have a substantive impact on the practice (when it was illegal, people performed it illegally or went to other countries to get it). REAL caring on the other hand is impossible to resist. Wasn't that really the message Jesus gave us in the first place?

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ORIGINAL: blue1914

I wonder - exactly what do you mean by this?

Can you (or anyone) substantively tell me how in a MATERIAL way Mr. Bush has decreased the amount of abortions performed in the United States of America? Can you show me substantively how his policies have caused a greater decrease in abortions that Mr. Clinton of 8 years prior-short answer, no, you can't because it's not true. While abortions decreased under Mr. Bush's leadership, they decreased at a greater rate under Mr. Clinton's leadership.

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My point is simple-legislation is NOT the answer to the abortion epidemic. On the books of many states in the Union are laws which make the activities of homosexuals illegal-has that stopped homosexual activity (or eventually even gay marriages in other states, etc.)? NO-mainly because those laws are not enforced-how could they be? Instead, the only way we see homosexual activity ending is when we see those who previously were homosexual come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

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If the church would like to fight abortion, it can do so by:

1. Loving people
2. Caring for people - even those who have children out of wedlock or who have more children than they can take care of - find places FOR those children.
3. Showing true salt and light to the world-offering an alternative to illicit sexual activity by showing a true picture of Jesus Christ to the world.

While I am adamantly opposed to abortion, I have YET to see legislation-either for or against it-have a substantive impact on the practice (when it was illegal, people performed it illegally or went to other countries to get it). REAL caring on the other hand is impossible to resist.

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Wasn't that really the message Jesus gave us in the first place?

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ORIGINAL: Rockwall

[Show me where Jesus said that we should play God and kill babies. Show me that passage and I will donate $50 to the church of your choosing and will post the Paypal receipt.

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ORIGINAL: blue1914
they decreased at a greater rate under Mr. Clinton's leadership.

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My point is simple-legislation is NOT the answer to the abortion epidemic.

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On the books of many states in the Union are laws which make the activities of homosexuals illegal-has that stopped homosexual activity (or eventually even gay marriages in other states, etc.)?

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NO-mainly because those laws are not enforced-how could they be? Instead, the only way we see homosexual activity ending is when we see those who previously were homosexual come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

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If the church would like to fight abortion, it can do so by:

1. Loving people

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2. Caring for people - even those who have children out of wedlock or who have more children than they can take care of - find places FOR those children.

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3. Showing true salt and light to the world-offering an alternative to illicit sexual activity by showing a true picture of Jesus Christ to the world.

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While I am adamantly opposed to abortion, I have YET to see legislation-either for or against it-have a substantive impact on the practice (when it was illegal, people performed it illegally or went to other countries to get it).

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REAL caring on the other hand is impossible to resist.

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Wasn't that really the message Jesus gave us in the first place?

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The support given to George W. Bush on grounds he is "pro-life" and the criticisms towards Barack Obama on grounds he is "pro-death" are quite odd considering that Bush's war on Iraq led to 4000+ dead American servicepersons, dozens of thousands of injured/wounded (3rd degree burns, maimed, paraplegic, brain damaged, blinded, etc), not to mention hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and injured/maimed/crippled Iraqis, the emotional pain of dead relatives, the suffering from no food, fleeing homes, the shattered lives, disease (cholera breakouts in Iraq even as I type), 4 million refugees...

Bush, pro-life. Indeed.

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ORIGINAL: RichLP

The support given to George W. Bush on grounds he is "pro-life" and the criticisms towards Barack Obama on grounds he is "pro-death" are quite odd considering that Bush's war on Iraq led to 4000+ dead American servicepersons, dozens of thousands of injured/wounded (3rd degree burns, maimed, paraplegic, brain damaged, blinded, etc), not to mention hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and injured/maimed/crippled Iraqis, the emotional pain of dead relatives, the suffering from no food, fleeing homes, the shattered lives, disease (cholera breakouts in Iraq even as I type), 4 million refugees...

Bush, pro-life. Indeed.

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War of Independence (1775-1783) 25,000
Quasi-War (1798-1800) 20
Barbary Wars (1801-1815) 35
War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000
1st Seminole War (1817-1818) 30
2nd Seminole War (1835-1842) 1,500
Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283
3rd Seminole War (1855-1858) 26
Civil War (1861-1865) 623,026
Indian Wars (1865-1898) 919
Spanish-American War (1898) 2,446
Phillipine War (1898-1902) 4,196
Boxer Rebellion (1900-1901) 37
Mexican Revolution (1914-1919) 35
Haiti Occupation (1915-1934) 146
World War 1 (1917-1918) 116,708
World War 2 (1941-1945) 407,316
Korean War (1950-1953) 36,914
Vietnam War (1964-1973) 58,169
El Salvador (1980-1992) 20
Beirut (1982-1984) 266
Persian Gulf Support (1987-1988) 39
Invasion of Grenada (1983) 19
Invasion of Panama (1989) 40
Gulf War (1991) 269
Somalia (1992-1993) 43
Bosnia 1995 12
Afghanistan (2002-2008) 609
Iraqi (2003-2008) 4,177

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Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee..."

Luke 1:15
"He shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb"