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CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 9:49:12 AM
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howling wind
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I was recently doing some research into some CCM bands for my 12 year-old daughter to listen to and became concerned about some of the ministries these bands were linking themselves to:
**Barlow Girl is showing support for Joyce Meyer (WoF "minister" who has some very sketchy teachings) and Todd Bentley (discredited leader of the false revival in Lakeland, Florida)**
**Peter Furler, lead singer of the Newsboys, is the son-in-law of Mylon Lefevre. Lefevre was once a respected CCM singer, but has now embraced WoF doctrine and the heretical teachings of Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth Copeland, etc. Maybe Furler does not believe what his father-in-law believes, but I have to think that some of it rubs off on him**
If a CCM artist endorses a ministry that has a "shaky" theology, does that influence your decision to listen to, or support, that artist?
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 10:27:33 AM
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uncabeeil
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If the music's good, I'll listen unless they're using the music to push an agenda. But, as I've said in the past, they could be card carrying left wing reformed druids ("We worship bushes") and it wouldn't matter to me. I don't look to musicians or their music for theological enlightenment. Their job, as it effects my life, is to entertain, not educate.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 10:35:47 AM
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howling wind
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Most of the music I listen to falls far outside the realm of CCM - Bad Brains, Korpiklaani, Nightwish, etc. I am specifically talking about CCM artists. Since most CCM artists call their career their "ministry", shouldn't they be careful about the other ministries they line themselves up with?
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 10:46:11 AM
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mapachito13
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Hey we could start a "Heretical CCM Sucks" thread (akin to the secular music thread) and debate the Christianity of these "so-called" Christians artists! 
Some "good Christian" folk would make the argument that all CCM is devil inspired to "lead the elect astray" so why get so nit-picky?
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 12:36:26 PM
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howling wind
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Hey we could start a "Heretical CCM Sucks" thread (akin to the secular music thread) and debate the Christianity of these "so-called" Christians artists!
Some "good Christian" folk would make the argument that all CCM is devil inspired to "lead the elect astray" so why get so nit-picky?
Since you have no concept of what I'm trying to ask, maybe I'll explain myself further... 
A person hears Barlow Girl, likes what they hear, and then decides to check out their website for more information. They start looking at Barlow Girl's website for music, lyrics, merchandise, etc. and then, seeing a "link" section, they click on it. They see a link to Todd Bentley's website and thinks "Well, I like Barlow Girl and they seem okay, so maybe I'll check out this guy's website because Barlow Girl likes him." This person is then led to a website that is filled with some of the most bizarre and heretical teaching ever presented under the guise of Christianity. Is it the most prudent thing for Barlow Girl to align themselves with this guy?
Do I think CCM is "heretical"? No (and I never expressed that in any of my previous posts in this thread), but I think some of it is just plain lousy - lyrically and musically. Do I think the members of Barlow Girl are non-Christians because I disagree with the ministries they align themselves with? No, but I do think they should be more discerning (the "D" word) about who they direct their fans to listen to for spiritual guidance.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 2:16:10 PM
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BarlowGuy25
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What's WoF, anyway?
Nobody's mentioned the charitable work our ladies have done with Mercy Ministries, anyway...
Would this have anything to do with the animosity directed towards me at SoundPost (their online community) whenever I say that the Barlows deserve to be more like Switchfoot, Tomlin or Casting Crowns and sell more records, tour more like the "big" bands, you name it?? I've gotten reprimanded a lot by the mods...smells like conservatism. It's why I like this forum more...it's more open than SP.
Ramon Matos - your BarlowRocker
(I don't pretend to be the BG authority here, but I had to comment)
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Alyssa, Lauren and Rebecca -- the Ladies who saved my life.
HOW HAS YOUR FAVORITE ROCK BAND TRANSFORMED YOU TODAY?
"But a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised." - Proverbs 31:30 ("B").
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 3:03:52 PM
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howling wind
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BarlowGuy25
What's WoF, anyway?
Nobody's mentioned the charitable work our ladies have done with Mercy Ministries, anyway...
Would this have anything to do with the animosity directed towards me at SoundPost (their online community) whenever I say that the Barlows deserve to be more like Switchfoot, Tomlin or Casting Crowns and sell more records, tour more like the "big" bands, you name it?? I've gotten reprimanded a lot by the mods...smells like conservatism. It's why I like this forum more...it's more open than SP.
Ramon Matos - your BarlowRocker
(I don't pretend to be the BG authority here, but I had to comment)
go Canes - UM vs Virginia Tech in 5 hours, 14 minutes!
WoF stands for Word of Faith - check out some of the threads on CW Forums in the Theology folder, sub-folder The Church to find more information.
I think the fact that Barlow Girl works with Mercy Ministries is very admirable (and I'm sure they probably help with many other worthwhile projects). However, while I'd be very cautious to link myself with Joyce Meyer, the last person you want to link yourself with is Todd Bentley and Fresh Fire Ministries. Bentley and his Lakeland, Florida "revival" this past summer was discredited due to his infidelty (he and his wife are currently separated) and, more importantly, his use of occultic practices to justify the "revival." See some of the threads in the above folders to understand this guy, or just Google his name, and be ready to be shocked.
Again, if I were Barlow Girl, I would not want to soil my band's name by advocating Bentley.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/13/2008 8:00:04 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
If a CCM artist endorses a ministry that has a "shaky" theology, does that influence your decision to listen to, or support, that artist?
Depends on who they are supporting and how much they follow that person as well.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/14/2008 10:49:24 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: howling wind
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Hey we could start a "Heretical CCM Sucks" thread (akin to the secular music thread) and debate the Christianity of these "so-called" Christians artists!
Some "good Christian" folk would make the argument that all CCM is devil inspired to "lead the elect astray" so why get so nit-picky?
Since you have no concept of what I'm trying to ask, maybe I'll explain myself further...
A person hears Barlow Girl, likes what they hear, and then decides to check out their website for more information. They start looking at Barlow Girl's website for music, lyrics, merchandise, etc. and then, seeing a "link" section, they click on it. They see a link to Todd Bentley's website and thinks "Well, I like Barlow Girl and they seem okay, so maybe I'll check out this guy's website because Barlow Girl likes him." This person is then led to a website that is filled with some of the most bizarre and heretical teaching ever presented under the guise of Christianity. Is it the most prudent thing for Barlow Girl to align themselves with this guy?
Do I think CCM is "heretical"? No (and I never expressed that in any of my previous posts in this thread), but I think some of it is just plain lousy - lyrically and musically. Do I think the members of Barlow Girl are non-Christians because I disagree with the ministries they align themselves with? No, but I do think they should be more discerning (the "D" word) about who they direct their fans to listen to for spiritual guidance.
I didn't miss your point and I didn't say YOU said all CCM was heretical. (Read it again.) I am saying that other Christians vociferously state that all CCM is heretical in nature because of the style of music! So maybe your views on CCM don't mesh with their "truth".
But you did miss my point! That each Christian denomination and ministry claims to have the "whole truth" and people go crazy debating how one is "better" than than the other. But having love for God and treating others as we would like to be treated sums up the law and the Prophets and is better than having the "knowledge of angels".
If the links were to a anti-Christian site like planned parenthood or another, then let the umbrage flow like water but just because these ministries don't mesh with your theology or that of your denomination is a case of personal discernment.
Other Christian denominations beliefs don't jive with mine but I am not going to say to those that I have more truth than them and that they are not using proper discernment.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/14/2008 12:03:51 PM
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Stratplayer
Posts: 167
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From: Northern VA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: howling wind
I was recently doing some research into some CCM bands for my 12 year-old daughter to listen to and became concerned about some of the ministries these bands were linking themselves to:
**Barlow Girl is showing support for Joyce Meyer (WoF "minister" who has some very sketchy teachings) and Todd Bentley (discredited leader of the false revival in Lakeland, Florida)**
**Peter Furler, lead singer of the Newsboys, is the son-in-law of Mylon Lefevre. Lefevre was once a respected CCM singer, but has now embraced WoF doctrine and the heretical teachings of Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth Copeland, etc. Maybe Furler does not believe what his father-in-law believes, but I have to think that some of it rubs off on him**
If a CCM artist endorses a ministry that has a "shaky" theology, does that influence your decision to listen to, or support, that artist?
Hmmm....this topic seems rather familiar! In most cases, though, this would not influence my decision to listen to a pariticular artist. Although many artists are considered to be in ministry, most of them are not "ministers" meaning that they don't have any formal theological training. In fact, although Christian music does minister to listeners, it is also a safe form entertainment. So I am of the opinion that many artists are just that....artists.
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Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (Phil. 4:6-7
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/14/2008 12:56:52 PM
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tafkam
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As an artist (albeit an unknown one), I still would not wish to come within a cybermile of Joyce Meyer or Todd Bentley, all bets on spiritual credibility are off once you do....
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Tafkam
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/14/2008 1:33:12 PM
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DaveW
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This has always been an issue.
Back in the 70s Paul Clark was banned from a lot of CCM stations because he was in the Discipleship/shepherding group. The same with Keaggy, who made it big anyway.
Today many love the music of Messianic worship leaders like Paul Wilbur, but decry messianism as "judiazing" and "under the law."
BTW, did you know that Hosanna Integrity was once part of the discipleship/shepherding movement? Integrity Communications used to be the name of what is now called Charles Simpson Ministries. Simpson was one of the architects of the movement. It did not gain any popularity outside the discipleship churches until it seperated away. Gerrit Gustaffson (who started Hosanna) was Simpson's #2 man.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/14/2008 9:10:36 PM
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humbleinspirit
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The only artist that comes to mind that I am wary of is Carman.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/15/2008 9:06:40 PM
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rlj
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quote:
If a CCM artist endorses a ministry that has a "shaky" theology, does that influence your decision to listen to, or support, that artist?
It depends on what they are singing about really. I wouldn't worry too much about "shaky theology" unless it is a lyrical problem. We all listen to, respect and love Earthless and I believe it is his MiL that is a WoF heretic. Peter's church I believe is Every Nation church so IM Earthless himself and I'm sure he'll be more than happy to tell you why they are heretical. ; )
I'm not convinced that Peter Furler is really showing any support for anything to do with Mylon other than they are related. Barlow Girl would be up to you. When one really digs into what an artist is into you'll find lots. Some have said Dale Thompson was a Universalist that was pretty stunning to me. : /
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/15/2008 10:07:16 PM
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jeune
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quote:
ORIGINAL: howling wind
I was recently doing some research into some CCM bands for my 12 year-old daughter to listen to and became concerned about some of the ministries these bands were linking themselves to...
If a CCM artist endorses a ministry that has a "shaky" theology, does that influence your decision to listen to, or support, that artist?
here's how i feel about all this business:
my convictions may not line up with yours so i don't feel it's necessary to try to convince you it's okay to let your daughter listen to barlow girl or whever she wants to listen to. i mean, what can i say about your situation except parents knows best, right?  it's the truth though, if you don't feel comfortable with your kids listening to some band, who am i to tell you otherwise? talk it over with your kid! explain your disagreements with the artists, who they're supporting, etc. and figure out the "how far is too far?" together. 
but, for the sake of conversation (lol), i'd say i'm turned off by "christian bands" and, for that matter, "christians in bands" who are supporting things i don't necessarily agree with. my conscience is more comfortable listening to "secular" artists than "christian" hypocrites. if youre gonna carry Christ's name, you'd better do it right, am i wrong?
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/16/2008 10:31:00 AM
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Market42Fan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
The only artist that comes to mind that I am wary of is Carman.
As someone who's been a Carman fan for much of my life, I'm curious as to which connection you're trying to bring up.
If you're talking about Carlton Pearson, Carman was attending that church LONG BEFORE (please note emphasis) Pearson began teaching the universalism heresy.
The only valid concern in my opinion would be how chummy Carman has gotten with the Crouch clan in recent years. Since he started working really closely with TBN, he's been in a movie (released by Gener8xion Entertainment) that caused me to lose a lot of respect for him, and basically has been reduced to serbing up puff questions on their Praise the Lord program.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/16/2008 3:38:36 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Its his WOF leanings that worry me.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/16/2008 7:11:21 PM
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BarlowGuy25
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Well, we just elected Obama president, and he was involved with Pastor James Wright, or Johnny Wright, or whatever his name is...
Ramon Matos - your BarlowRocker
go Canes UM 16 VATECH 14
go Dolphins MIA 17 OAK 15
_____________________________
PROUD MEMBER OF THE BARLOWNATION SINCE 2006.
Alyssa, Lauren and Rebecca -- the Ladies who saved my life.
HOW HAS YOUR FAVORITE ROCK BAND TRANSFORMED YOU TODAY?
"But a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised." - Proverbs 31:30 ("B").
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/16/2008 9:15:44 PM
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markb77
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
The only artist that comes to mind that I am wary of is Carman.
Yes - everything about him is disconcerting, starting with his CD catalog. Probably best to just stay far, far away.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/16/2008 9:16:59 PM
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humbleinspirit
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His early stuff I really like, but as things progressed it started getting more strange afterwards.
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/19/2008 6:38:12 PM
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Stratplayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BarlowGuy25
Well, we just elected Obama president, and he was involved with Pastor James Wright, or Johnny Wright, or whatever his name is...
Ramon Matos - your BarlowRocker
go Canes UM 16 VATECH 14
go Dolphins MIA 17 OAK 15
Must we go there in the music forum?
_____________________________
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (Phil. 4:6-7
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/21/2008 2:22:53 PM
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BarlowGuy25
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Just trying to tie it up to this musicians-aligining-themselves-with-controversial-pastors debate...
Ray/BarlowRocker
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PROUD MEMBER OF THE BARLOWNATION SINCE 2006.
Alyssa, Lauren and Rebecca -- the Ladies who saved my life.
HOW HAS YOUR FAVORITE ROCK BAND TRANSFORMED YOU TODAY?
"But a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised." - Proverbs 31:30 ("B").
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/22/2008 2:43:00 PM
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gaylel1
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Ok, let's talk about these southern gospel artists like Jason Crabb, who has been aligning himself with TBN and many of the WOF crowd? I'm not trying to stick off subject, but it CCM artists are not the only ones who align themselves with other ministries which we don't agree with.
Secondly, let's talk about those who are aliging themselves with those who are doing something postitive with other para-church ministries like Michael W. Smith, who hopefully will be invited to Harvest next year, or many of the CCM artists who are working with Compassion International or people like Toby Mac, who is ministring to those in the inner city?
Why not talk about that instead of putting a negative spin of those who are working with ministries that do not agree doctionally?
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/23/2008 4:55:27 PM
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Stratplayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
Ok, let's talk about these southern gospel artists like Jason Crabb, who has been aligning himself with TBN and many of the WOF crowd? I'm not trying to stick off subject, but it CCM artists are not the only ones who align themselves with other ministries which we don't agree with.
Secondly, let's talk about those who are aliging themselves with those who are doing something postitive with other para-church ministries like Michael W. Smith, who hopefully will be invited to Harvest next year, or many of the CCM artists who are working with Compassion International or people like Toby Mac, who is ministring to those in the inner city?
Why not talk about that instead of putting a negative spin of those who are working with ministries that do not agree doctionally?
It's not a negative spin, but an issue worth discussing. In fact, I started a thread along these lines with regards to black gospel artists (click here). Remember, Christian artists come out of some type of church culture; some of which embrace WOF and other questionable doctrines. This fact may influence the decison of some Christians as to weather or not they listen to a particular atrist. I do not believe that the purpose of this thread is to attack artists or invalidate their ministries based on weather or not their doctrine is agreeable.
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Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (Phil. 4:6-7
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RE: CCM artists lining up with other ministries - 11/24/2008 12:20:22 AM
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sweetlybroken09
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here's my take on this issue. I for one was pretty surprised to find a band like Barlow girl liked Todd Bentley. I remember a huge discussion about that on their message board. but I think it's important to look at the fruit of the artists lives. if Barlow girl started going out there and preachin' a bunch of false stuff then yeah, people shouldn't listen to their music. but from what I can tell, they seem super into the bible and really try to live by it. their song lyrics are also very biblical. i'm sure they'll see the Todd Bentley thing for what it is if they haven't already.
i think it's also important to remember that Christians artists are obviously imperfect. they're gonna screw up sometimes, endorse the wrong people, say dumb stuff or whatever. i think it would be something to worry about if the artists themselves were preaching false doctrine and singing it. but as long as their messages, songs, and lives are biblical then I don't see any problem with listening to their music.
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