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Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 10:24:51 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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This scenario has been on my mind for some time now, and I would appreciate any comments you all may have!
I will say that something similar to this happened, but I don't want to get into specific details at the moment, so bear with me.
Let's say that you are working at a small business, or some such place, and you discover that one of the doors into the place has a broken lock. There's a keycard system for the doors, so a broken lock basically means anyone, worker or not, can get in just by jiggling the handle the right way. You learn that it has been broken for several months, and you've seen fellow employees (and a few friends of employees) come in without a keycard. You're not worried about the building's security, since it is in a safe place and a professional security presence has been hired.
Now, one night, you're feeling a little mischievous, so you decide to sneak into your place of work and play an innocent, fun joke on your boss. Nothing that you think will upset him, or cause him any harm, or even slow down his work day - just something fun. The next morning, though, your boss calls you in, and is very upset. He knows you did the prank, because the security force wrote down your license plate number. He wants to know how you got into the building, since the keycards stop working after the business closes. So, you explain about the broken door. You explain that it has been broken for several months, and other people have been using it, too.
OK, so, here's the main thing - he accuses you of breaking the door. He says that you're the only one on record for entering through the door without using a keycard, so you must have broken it. As a result, he makes you pay for the new lock.
My question is, is this boss calling you a liar? You claim, as truth, that you did not break the door, and he claims, as truth, that you did. In my mind, that would equate to him accusing you of lying. What say you?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 10:27:57 AM
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Neeva_Candida
Posts: 119
Joined: 7/26/2008
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How would the clarification make a difference in this situation?
~Neeva
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 10:32:23 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
How would the clarification make a difference in this situation?
Which clarification are you asking about?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 11:17:39 AM
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mvic
Posts: 1801
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Like Neeva, I too don't understand what you are asking.
The boss "accuses you of breaking the door".
"You claim, as truth, that you did not break the door ..."
"My question is, is this boss calling you a liar?"
If he continues with his claim, which is what he believes, having considered all the facts at his disposal as they appear to him at this specific point in time; then it follows that, at this particular point in time, he does not believe what you are saying. Hence he is calling you a liar.
Albeit the facts, once ascertained, if this is at all possible, (for example if another individual backs your claim that the door has been broken for a considerable time), would prove that indeed you were telling the truth.
Hence for the time being he is calling you a liar, until it is proven otherwise. Albeit you are not in effect a liar.
Sorry for being legalistically long winded about this.
_____________________________
Visit http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
My Book My Blog
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 12:35:45 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3471
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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This seems to be one of those "can't win" situations.
I would just take my losses and go on.
When I saw the title, I was thinking,
Romans 3:4 quoting Psalms = "All men are liars." lol.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 1:07:55 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5781
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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Anyone dumb inough to sneak into a business when they are not supposed to, and by a way that they know there are not supposed to use; deserves to pay for a lock and then should givesthanks to God that that is all that happens to them.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 1:31:30 PM
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JamesL5
Posts: 97
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Calling Someone a Liar?
I have a question. If someone lies to me, then I can call them a liar? Is it a sin to call someone a liar?
< Message edited by JamesL5 -- 8/27/2008 3:06:47 PM >
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/27/2008 4:44:19 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter.
JamesL5,
quote:
I have a question. If someone lies to me, then I can call them a liar? Is it a sin to call someone a liar?
In my opinion, no. There's nothing inherently wrong with calling someone what they are, though it can become wrong if it is done improperly.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/28/2008 7:29:43 AM
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LastofAll
Posts: 37
Status: offline
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“Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that He is your God: Yet ye have not known Him; but I know Him: and if I should say, I know Him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know Him, and keep His saying.
(John.8:54,55)
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/28/2008 9:43:09 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2029
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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There's a difference between being wrong and being a liar - lying implies intent. He's wrong, but unless you have evidence that he knows that you didn't break the lock and is intentionally spreading a falsehood, you can't say that he's lying.
I'd try to corroborate my version by finding other people who have used the broken lock.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/28/2008 11:09:03 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
There's a difference between being wrong and being a liar - lying implies intent. He's wrong, but unless you have evidence that he knows that you didn't break the lock and is intentionally spreading a falsehood, you can't say that he's lying.
Perhaps I didn't phrase the question properly. I wasn't asking if, in this situation, the boss was lying. I was asking if, by denying the truth of the worker's statement, the boss was, in effect, calling the worker a liar - something the boss denied doing.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/28/2008 2:40:36 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1212
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
There's a difference between being wrong and being a liar - lying implies intent. He's wrong, but unless you have evidence that he knows that you didn't break the lock and is intentionally spreading a falsehood, you can't say that he's lying.
Perhaps I didn't phrase the question properly. I wasn't asking if, in this situation, the boss was lying. I was asking if, by denying the truth of the worker's statement, the boss was, in effect, calling the worker a liar - something the boss denied doing.
The answer is...Maybe. He is either saying he doesn't believe the person, which is saying he is lying. Or he is saying he doesn't care if what the person is saying is the truth or not.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/29/2008 7:14:45 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2029
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
There's a difference between being wrong and being a liar - lying implies intent. He's wrong, but unless you have evidence that he knows that you didn't break the lock and is intentionally spreading a falsehood, you can't say that he's lying.
Perhaps I didn't phrase the question properly. I wasn't asking if, in this situation, the boss was lying. I was asking if, by denying the truth of the worker's statement, the boss was, in effect, calling the worker a liar - something the boss denied doing.
He may not want to word it that way, but IMO, yes, he's calling the worker a liar.
Also IMO, if the boss wants to deny that he's calling the worker a liar and also insist upon using security records as the basis for his claims, despite the fact that there's reasonable evidence to suggest that security records are insufficient for this purpose, then I'd imagine he's not a very wise or effective leader.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/29/2008 10:40:22 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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I'd like to say thanks again to everyone for their thoughts. It's been helpful getting different perspectives on this situation!
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Calling Someone a Liar? - 8/31/2008 9:04:45 PM
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9drtr
Posts: 1685
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Toronto the Good
Status: online
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Yes, absolutely. There is no question that your boss is calling you a liar.
_____________________________
Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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