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My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 3:21:30 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
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From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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Is it my place to inform the state government of suspected welfare fraud?
There is a young man in our company who was hired in January. He got married between the interview & his hire date & brought with him a pregant wife on free healthcare from the state. Part of his employment package is free housing & paid utilities. The young couple have no rent, no utilities to pay & he makes around $10 hourly. We have an excellent benefit package which he became eligible for in March & opted to cover himself, but not his wife & baby. His wife's pregnancy was paid for by the state, as well as the birth of the baby & now the baby's growing years.
I am not sure since I do not know the criteria for receiving government help, but this sounds a little "off" to me.
I do not want to do anything to hurt anyone either. I'm torn as to what to do or even if I should. I know that I have a duty to God, but I also have a duty to society.
I cannot talk to the young man. He is trouble.
Any suggestions.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 3:42:23 PM
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Kat_D
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My first inclination is that if he was covered by your company insurance in March, her pregnancy could have been considered pre-existing and therefore, a non-covered condition by your group carrier.
Also, if he is only making $10 hour, I doubt very much if he is able to cover the cost of insurance for his wife and child. Usually the employee is covered at minimal cost, but it can be quite expensive to pay the premiums for dependents.
Bottom line, I suggest you get your facts straight before you even think about outing him to the government.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 3:52:33 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
I am not sure since I do not know the criteria for receiving government help, but this sounds a little "off" to me.
Oh, I forgot to mention in my previous post that there is also such a thing as SOC (Share of Cost) whereby working people covered by Medi-Cal/Medicaid are required to pay a portion of the cost of their medical bills based on their income. Are you sure this man didn't have one?
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 4:07:02 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: norak
Is it my place to inform the state government of suspected welfare fraud?
There is a young man in our company who was hired in January. He got married between the interview & his hire date & brought with him a pregant wife on free healthcare from the state. Part of his employment package is free housing & paid utilities. The young couple have no rent, no utilities to pay & he makes around $10 hourly. We have an excellent benefit package which he became eligible for in March & opted to cover himself, but not his wife & baby. His wife's pregnancy was paid for by the state, as well as the birth of the baby & now the baby's growing years.
I am not sure since I do not know the criteria for receiving government help, but this sounds a little "off" to me.
I do not want to do anything to hurt anyone either. I'm torn as to what to do or even if I should. I know that I have a duty to God, but I also have a duty to society.
I cannot talk to the young man. He is trouble.
Any suggestions.
If you are, as ti sounds, in the human resources/benefits portion of your company; you may be required by your employeers to report such to the welfare authorities.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 4:11:00 PM
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DuckTalk
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You are probably right (Kat_D) about the pregnancy being a pre-existing condition.
That is what I am trying to do (get my facts straight). I just don't know who to ask without going to the source first. This is why my initial step was to ask among Christians. I was hoping that someone here may be knowledgeable enough in this area that they could help direct me. But "outing him" is an awful way of putting it. That sounds like I am being malicious & trying to get him in trouble, which is not at all the case. Yet, that is precisely what I feared would be the perception if I pursued it.
Other employees in his earnings bracket with furnished housing seem to be able to afford family coverage. It is excellent & only $125 monthly for 100% prescription coverage, 80% medical coverage & optional HSA which the company will contribute to if the employee contributes to it also.
I am not sure what this man has (re: SOC), but I do know he has a poor attitude & blames others for his problems, and has clearly said that he will use whatever means that he can get by with using when it comes to government help. I have no problem with that...that is what it is there for. However, I do feel accountable to my brethren if I sense the system may be being abused.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 4:22:16 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
I just don't know who to ask without going to the source first.
No agency is going to give you personal information on him, so there is no one other than him to ask.
Sorry you were miffed over my use of the terminology "outing him." It is just an expression and was not meant to offend.
You can not make this accusation based on his poor attitude. You have to have facts. Also, (and once again, no offense meant by the following counsel (I'd counsel myself the same way if I was in your situation)... please be sure to examine your motives...you seem to me to be very angry at this guy,
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 4:51:04 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D... please be sure to examine your motives...you seem to me to be very angry at this guy,
No, not at all angry at him. He's just a kid who is getting by the way he knows how, but I suppose if we were to break it down to a "motive", then if I were to be blatantly honest with you (as well as myself), I am rather fed up with people unjustifiably leeching off of the welfare system.
Don't get me wrong, I have enough blue in me to share my earnings with those justifiably in need & enough Christian in me to actually feel compelled to go above & beyond in order to do so. I also have enough red in me, as well as Christian to feel that everyone should be dutifully responsible for their own choices, but more importantly than all of this, we have already have a failing system that is going to hit home for over 700 billion dollars to bail out institutions due to nothing other than greed, don't you think its time to start taking a good look at those who are bleeding us in the small ways as well as the large? It all adds up in the end, doesn't it?
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 5:41:22 PM
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mvic
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I don't know the Law in the US, so I can't comment on that.
RCJames gave a good hint in his reply. Are you in Human Resources or similar Department? Is it your duty to check on individuals on behalf of your employers?
If YES - then the answer is clear. You need to advise your boss of what is happening here.
If NO - and you're only an employee just like this person. Then I would advise you to do nothing.
Your employer, and the authorities, have systems in place to check on such wrong-doings.
I know, you feel you have a duty as a Christian; I've been in similar circumstances. However, I feel it is not my job to report wrong-doers such as the one you describe.
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 6:19:19 PM
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DuckTalk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
I don't know the Law in the US, so I can't comment on that. That's okay. Most of us don't either.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
RCJames gave a good hint in his reply. Are you in Human Resources or similar Department? Is it your duty to check on individuals on behalf of your employers? I agree. I have utmost respect for RCJames' posts. The are direct, simple, to the point, & generally right on the mark.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
If YES - then the answer is clear. You need to advise your boss of what is happening here.
If NO - and you're only an employee just like this person. Then I would advise you to do nothing. The confusion in my heart is that I do have experience & a strong background in HR (15 yrs. in another company). I left that profession due to people "over-looking", neglecting & picking & choosing who could get away with what. I suppose you could say, "my Christian edification over-ruled my college education".
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Your employer, and the authorities, have systems in place to check on such wrong-doings. No, they don't always & even if they did, as in all systems, they are subject to neglect & fail miserably when they are.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
I know, you feel you have a duty as a Christian; I've been in similar circumstances. However, I feel it is not my job to report wrong-doers such as the one you describe.
Then, if not a faithful obedient Christian who sees neglect in a failing system, whose?
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/26/2008 6:44:43 PM
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Little_1
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If your suspicions do prove correct, could you speak to him or drop him a line (anonymously if you must) and explain your concern and thereby give him a chance to put things right himself? Give him this chance to come clean within a set period of time and if he doesn't then perhaps you will need to take action.
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/27/2008 9:33:41 PM
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mvic
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Hi Norak,
You say: "Then, if not a faithful obedient Christian who sees neglect in a failing system, whose?"
I realise that as Christians we sometimes feel we have a duty to right all wrongs - I know I feel like that at times. But then, we should also realise that there is a limit as to how much we get involved, and there are times perhaps when we should step back and do nothing.
Jesus said: Return to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. (Matthew 22:15.)
He knew He was being tricked into a question regarding taxation and the payment (or non-payment) of it. He definitely did not say: Report those who don't pay tax to the authorities.
He could have said report the non-payers or such similar statement. But He didn't.
My view is like the others' on this thread. Do not get involved. Your job is not in HR right now. It is not your duty or work responsibility. So do nothing about it. Just in case you are mistaken in what you think you know and then you find yourself accused of trouble-making or worse.
_____________________________
Visit http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
My Book My Blog
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/27/2008 11:33:40 PM
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stimulus
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I don't necessarily agree with the "it's not your responsibility, stay out of it" argument, but I think you need to be cautious and take it slow. You don't know that he is doing anything wrong, and it's good that you are trying to get the facts straight. But just keep observing him. Why don't you try to get to know him - not to "out him", but form a genuine friendship. Perhaps you'll be able to counsel him on taking responsibility for his family instead of blaming others, or maybe you'll discover he is struggling more than you realized. Maybe you'll discover that he really is leech who is defrauding the government, and if so, you can cross that bridge when you get to it. But you aren't there yet.
I think your frustration with welfare and the nation's economic situation may be clouding your judgment, and I simply encourage you to hold off on saying anything until you know for sure what he is doing. Don't make him a scapegoat for the $700 billion, KWIM? It's not righteous indignation if you accuse the innocent.
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/28/2008 2:37:00 AM
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OneJohn410
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Got attorney friend at church? Okay. Everyone knows someone who might be in the legal profession? Perhaps even someone at church? Right there, you've got a means to cross-examine his or her knowledge of perhaps a branch of law they aren't associated with heavily, yet could comment on. Have you considered resourcing such a person?
I'd really be in prayer about this, and not move on it until His Spirit leads you.
_____________________________
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. -Romans 15:4 (NIV)
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/28/2008 3:15:55 AM
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MAP2010
Posts: 53
Joined: 9/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: norak
Is it my place to inform the state government of suspected welfare fraud?
There is a young man in our company who was hired in January. He got married between the interview & his hire date & brought with him a pregant wife on free healthcare from the state. Part of his employment package is free housing & paid utilities. The young couple have no rent, no utilities to pay & he makes around $10 hourly. We have an excellent benefit package which he became eligible for in March & opted to cover himself, but not his wife & baby. His wife's pregnancy was paid for by the state, as well as the birth of the baby & now the baby's growing years.
I am not sure since I do not know the criteria for receiving government help, but this sounds a little "off" to me.
I do not want to do anything to hurt anyone either. I'm torn as to what to do or even if I should. I know that I have a duty to God, but I also have a duty to society.
I cannot talk to the young man. He is trouble.
Any suggestions.
I have seen families where people with kids get Foodstamps Health Care and other forms of help who make more then that, plus if they get free Housing do they have to claim that for taxes? if they do not have to claim that they are in a lower tax bracket and only $10 an hr is not a lot. So I can see why they get help, I would say it would not be something to make me think they are doing wrong. I know people who make $60,000.00 each and they are having a hard time, plus if the Job gives the free housing then at anytime they can lose it. If they lose the Job then they must find a new place as well.
Anyways I would say it sounds fine and not like they are doing wrong.
It would be very hard to live off $10 an hr even in San Antonio Tx where I was born at, now I live in Ca and there is no way to do it here at that pay rate.
And for me as a Rep from youth and as a Christian by Faith I would only say something if it was like he was parting with the money or into drugs and used it to get them. As others have said its to hard to know for sure.
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Hi, if you post something to me and I do to reply please e-mail so I can. I sometimes forget to put to let me know when people post. Mark
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RE: My Duty or Not? - 9/29/2008 2:01:34 PM
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DuckTalk
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From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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I've decided to let it go & do nothing. It's apparent that my heart is not in the right place, so I will leave it to the young man's own conscience.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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