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Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 8:47:11 AM
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stampinlady
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The Rev.(senator) Meeks and a few other black ministers are encouraging parents to pull their kids from some poorly funded school in Chicago and enroll them in better funded ones. Here's a link to the story:
LINK
Do you think this is a good move or is this teaching students to break the rules?
( in Il you have to register your child in your district school and have proof of residency.)
Would it be better to push for more even funding?
Pastor Meeks spoke at Willow a few months ago and told us just how lacking the schools in his neighborhood were. Many have no books or very beat up ones and are lacking computers, labs, playgrounds and many other things that other affluent neighborhood have.
What do you think?
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 8/5/2008 10:19:45 AM >
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 9:17:34 AM
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stellaluna
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I don't think this is teaching kids to break rules. It's a last-ditch effort by parents and the community to rectify a documented lack of funding. (Although I'm only familiar with my own state's public school funding, not funding in Illinois.)
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 9:34:26 AM
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Zhi
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I think it's awesome that folks from this neighborhood really care about their childrens' education and want to make it better.
I'm not sure if invading/attacking a nearby school district is the proper way to show that concern, though.
Honestly I'm a little concerned about the safety of the children involved from both districts if they're really bussing large numbers of riled-up high schoolers to a school that has basically been presented to them as kind of "the enemy".
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 9:36:13 AM
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revbob4God
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I believe it should be up to the parents. I ask myself what I would do in this situation, and I personally would remove my children and home school them, or would consider a private school.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 9:43:48 AM
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stellaluna
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According to the story, churches are opening their doors as learning centers until the situation can be fixed, so I don't think that many kids will be trying to go to other schools--especially if they aren't convenient location-wise. There is absolutely no reason for the state to spend $10,000 on students in one area and $17,000 in another. It's shameful.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:17:59 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Pastor Meeks spoke at Willow a few months ago and told us just how lacking the schools in his neighborhood were. Many have no books or very beat up ones and are lacking computers, labs, playgrounds and many other things that other affluent neighborhood have.
What do you think?
Hmmm....i think the story lacks alot of details.
How much in school/property taxes does the "OTHER" school district pay...in contrast to the other? Are they expecting MORE funding, with SOMEONE ELSE footing the bill?
How much money does the Chicago School District "burn" in Administration costs, as compared to the "other" school district (My hunch: TONS more)
Additionally....there's been study after study.....when dealing with "low performing" districts, MONEY is rarely "the answer" to the problem.
Most likely, that "other" school district has a higher rate of parent involvement, which means a higher rate of students that CARE about learning.
Here, in our area, we have the infamous Dallas Independent School District. A "stereo typical" big-city, urban school district.....massive budgets, with a fairly small amount of money making it to the students. In some neighborhoods, there are schools that are perennial "low performers".....and, then, there are other schools, in other areas, that are spectacular. All are in the same district. All get the same "funding"....but, there's MUCH more to schools than just funding.
We CHOSE where we live because of the schools.....other parents can CHOOSE to do the same, as well.
The Chicago School District parents "complain" that they get funding of about $10,000 or so "per student"....that "other" district gets $17,000.....
OUR district spends an average of $7,626......and, I'll bet that our district would "out perform" EITHER of them.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:21:22 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
According to the story, churches are opening their doors as learning centers until the situation can be fixed, so I don't think that many kids will be trying to go to other schools--especially if they aren't convenient location-wise. There is absolutely no reason for the state to spend $10,000 on students in one area and $17,000 in another. It's shameful.
I dont' think that ALL of that money is "From the state".....perhaps the bulk of that $10,000 is....but, the "difference" with the other? probably a result of parents electing and choosing to provide more funding on their own (through higher property taxes)
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:27:33 AM
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bluestone
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I would do whatever it takes outside of imorality to ensure my children get the best education possible. If a parent lives in proverty, and can not move to a "better" district, and the school board refuses to fix up inner city schools, I would put my kids where I could.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:33:41 AM
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stampinlady
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Kernsfamily,
I think you've hit alot of points that need to be adressed. I'll look for a link to compare Chicago/Suburban taxes.
Stella, Rev. Meeks did tell parents to enroll their kids in the more affluent school districts and yes they are suppose to have learning centers available for these students.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:41:53 AM
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stellaluna
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First of all, let's not forget that "No Child Left Behind" allows parents to enroll their children in higher-performing schools. These schools might fall into that category as well. (Even though it doesn't say so.)
Second, I'm in Texas. I'm quite familiar with "Robin Hood" and the attempts to provide equal access to all of our kids. (For those of you not familiar, our state law requires rich districts to send money to poor districts and yes, the rich districts fight it tooth and nail.) I don't have children at all and I pay school taxes because it's part of my civic duty. There is no excuse in this day and age to have any child get sub-standard education. Every school should have books, computers, PLAYGROUNDS, regardless of the neighborhood it sits in or the income of the parents.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:44:49 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
I would do whatever it takes outside of imorality to ensure my children get the best education possible. If a parent lives in proverty, and can not move to a "better" district, and the school board refuses to fix up inner city schools, I would put my kids where I could.
"BIG City" school districts also typically mean "big city" teachers unions.....which means that teachers who don't do so well can RARELY be fired.....and, those teachers that DO excel, are "intimidated" by the others for "making them look bad"......so, mediocrity rules the day.....
that's what I experienced while going to school "back in the day" up in Michigan.....down here, it's not as much of a problem....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:47:13 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I don't think this is teaching kids to break rules. It's a last-ditch effort by parents and the community to rectify a documented lack of funding. (Although I'm only familiar with my own state's public school funding, not funding in Illinois.)
The funding for CPS (Chicago Public Schools) is more than adequate and the caliber of teachers are some of the best in the country.
The problem Meeks sees is not going to be fixed by money. CPS spends an average of $10,500 per student, per year. More than most excellent local private schools.. the problem is the community, the culture, the lack of parents, solid home/family structures.
You could spend $100K a year per kids and some of them will never care about school. It's a gang war zone for them, a place to handle their nation business.
What Meeks is suggesting is abusrd, it's class envy and can lead to race battles that are not what a so-called minister should be aiming for.
A LOT more can be said about CPS - it's waste and corruption. But throwing more money at the problem will not fix it.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:49:19 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
There is absolutely no reason for the state to spend $10,000 on students in one area and $17,000 in another. It's shameful.
It's driven by property taxes.. Wilmette/Winnetka residents pay A LOT more property taxes than those in the poor areas of Chicago. A lot of people in those poor areas do not even pay property taxes, they collect LINK and are living off the government.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 10:56:07 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Second, I'm in Texas. I'm quite familiar with "Robin Hood" and the attempts to provide equal access to all of our kids. (For those of you not familiar, our state law requires rich districts to send money to poor districts and yes, the rich districts fight it tooth and nail.) I don't have children at all and I pay school taxes because it's part of my civic duty. There is no excuse in this day and age to have any child get sub-standard education. Every school should have books, computers, PLAYGROUNDS, regardless of the neighborhood it sits in or the income of the parents.
We live in one of those so-called "rich" districts....and, we send MILLIONS to those "other" schools......as i mentioned, we spend "only" 7,000 or so per student.....and, yet, last year we faced budget and staff cutbacks due to the large amount of money we had to ship off to the state....
the "robin hood" plan, while well intentioned, does NOT work....and, does more harm to districts like ours, than helping those who it's "intended for"....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 11:06:19 AM
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stellaluna
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It is my own opinion that most school districts are wasteful. The superintendent of my city's school district makes $239,526 a year...a salary that has doubled since he took the job several years ago. The number of students in the district has increased only marginally, so why has his salary doubled? Even if you took $50,000 away from that amount, you'd be able to reinstate several programs that have been cut from our schools due to "lack of funding." AND this is after a $108-million bond election four years ago and another one coming up this fall.
quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
We live in one of those so-called "rich" districts....and, we send MILLIONS to those "other" schools......as i mentioned, we spend "only" 7,000 or so per student.....and, yet, last year we faced budget and staff cutbacks due to the large amount of money we had to ship off to the state....
the "robin hood" plan, while well intentioned, does NOT work....and, does more harm to districts like ours, than helping those who it's "intended for"....
Like I said, I don't have children at all, so I do get a little irritated that I have to pay any tax to fund schools. But I'm told repeatedly that it is my civic duty to educate the next generation. Seems to me it is the responsible thing for everyone to do to make sure ALL children are educated as equally as possible. I have no sympathy for "rich" districts.
Further, I don't think people can complain about the uneducated masses if they aren't willing to go to bat for kids who live in poor districts THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 11:35:21 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Further, I don't think people can complain about the uneducated masses if they aren't willing to go to bat for kids who live in poor districts THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
again, the issue is NOT funding.
there are "poor" schools in the Dallas ISD that are spectacular......while, other schools, are horrible....and they all receive the SAME funding. The answer? the good schools have parental involvement....at school, and at home....
how do you go "to bat" for kids who would fail academically, even if they had an UNLIMITED amount of money to spend?
meanwhile, schools with a fraction of the funding, do very, very well....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 11:44:39 AM
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stellaluna
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You have to start somewhere. You can't say, these kids are getting a good education with outdated textbooks (or no textbooks) or no computers, etc. regardless of parental involvement. There has to be an even playing field to begin with, THEN you can complain about the rest.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 11:48:22 AM
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Zhi
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I agree with you in principle, Stella, but I have to admit that I have trouble fathoming why a school can't buy its students textbooks at $10k per student. What are they spending it on?
From what I understand, $10k per student at public schools is pretty average. Comparatively, private schools tend to cost around $5k per student, but they seem to be able to purchase textbooks, and do a better job.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 12:07:28 PM
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stellaluna
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Oh, there's definitely a much bigger issue at play here. I'm just addressing the idea that "those kids don't deserve __ because their parents don't care." It sounds like the state needs to step in and if keeping kids out of school will do that, then maybe it's not a bad idea.
Like I said before, I personally believe most of the waste in school districts is at the top.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 12:52:10 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Comparatively, private schools tend to cost around $5k per student, but they seem to be able to purchase textbooks, and do a better job.
Right....they SEEM to do a better job.....
but are they???
that's a totally different subject...for a different day
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 1:19:09 PM
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bluestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
You have to start somewhere. You can't say, these kids are getting a good education with outdated textbooks (or no textbooks) or no computers, etc. regardless of parental involvement. There has to be an even playing field to begin with, THEN you can complain about the rest.
excellent post. I agree 100%.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 1:22:10 PM
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bluestone
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The best thing a church I once attended did in this regard was set up an afterschool tutoring / homework help station in an inner city area.
The principal of that school and parents alike were very pleased with the results, and it kept kids off the streets until parents got home from work.
I am trying to say we in the church can be proactive in helping those in poverty, and not just with money, but with time.
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 2:04:29 PM
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stellaluna
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I think he's kind of asking people to go on strike. Teachers do it to get more money so maybe students should try it, too?
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RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? - 8/5/2008 2:15:30 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
According to the story, churches are opening their doors as learning centers until the situation can be fixed, so I don't think that many kids will be trying to go to other schools--especially if they aren't convenient location-wise. There is absolutely no reason for the state to spend $10,000 on students in one area and $17,000 in another. It's shameful.
There is absolutely no reason for the state to spend 10,000 and not have them educated... I bet you could swap the money and nothing would change...
John
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