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Touch and dating - 8/11/2008 7:13:05 PM
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Isaiah4319
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I'm asking for the wisdom of time and experience, as a younger lady without a lot of experience with men, having grown up in a very conservative, almost all-female world.
What does physical touch mean to you in the first few times you go out with a woman? If you touch her, why do you do so - is it to increase attraction, demonstrate interest, or - something less innocent than many on this board seem to assume? Or some other reason? Will you continue to touch a woman even if she does not return it, and if so, why? If a woman does not return your touch, do you think she isn't interested?
Some people talk about the progression of touch in a dating relationship. First there's accidental touch, they say, then touching the hand, then holding hands, then arm around shoulders, arm around waist.... How much of this is appropriate for two people who are not engaged, or not committed, or or not exclusive? If it's not appropriate, than why not? If it is not only appropriate but also a helpful or necessary step in a developing relationship, why is it helpful or necessary?
Thank you in advance for your perspectives.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/11/2008 9:23:31 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah4319
I'm asking for the wisdom of time and experience, as a younger lady without a lot of experience with men, having grown up in a very conservative, almost all-female world.
What does physical touch mean to you in the first few times you go out with a woman? If you touch her, why do you do so - is it to increase attraction, demonstrate interest, or - something less innocent than many on this board seem to assume? Or some other reason? Will you continue to touch a woman even if she does not return it, and if so, why? If a woman does not return your touch, do you think she isn't interested?
Some people talk about the progression of touch in a dating relationship. First there's accidental touch, they say, then touching the hand, then holding hands, then arm around shoulders, arm around waist.... How much of this is appropriate for two people who are not engaged, or not committed, or or not exclusive? If it's not appropriate, than why not? If it is not only appropriate but also a helpful or necessary step in a developing relationship, why is it helpful or necessary?
Thank you in advance for your perspectives.
I will open by saying that when two people are dating it is natural to want to touch each other. It is even natural to be sexually attracted to each other. To me anyone who says they are not sexually attracted to his/her girlfriend/boyfriend is lying. A problem in the church in general is that it treats sex and sexuality as a dirty thing. If a couple who is not married is seen holding hands, hugging or kissing, some will assume they have having sex outside marriage.
Touching is a way of showing affection toward one another. I touch a girl I'm dating who is my girlfriend because I want to show her I care. Words don't mean much without some action behind it. I touch her because I want to be close to her.
quote:
Will you continue to touch a woman even if she does not return it, and if so, why?
Not really sure how something like this would play out. Am I holding her hand and she isn't closing her's around mine? Am I hugging her and she is just standing there? I guess if this is someone I'm dating and she just stands there, pulls away from kisses, etc., I would wonder if she really does like/love me. It would be something that would have to be talked about to see what the problem was. If such a girl continued the behavior without any explanation for it I wouldn't date her any longer. That may sound harsh but I wouldn't see the point of dating someone who doesn't touch or want to be touched. I really can't imagine what it would be like dating someone and never touching, never coming into physical contact. I don't even have female friends that I don't hug or kiss on the cheek. So with someone who I'm dating it would be very odd.
Certainly from my above you realize I believe touching is important and OK in my opinion. However certain touching shouldn't happen. Not gonna get into details, people should now what I mean. Why it's important is that it helps build the relationship as you get closer to one another. You get used to sitting close cuddling with each other. Holding the other person when they cry and such.
Don't know what else to say but touch is natural and should happen. I could add that there is no hard and fast rule to use for all people in general. For some people kissing is too much, while with others it's fine.
< Message edited by Child4Jesus -- 8/12/2008 12:40:44 AM >
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/12/2008 2:03:16 AM
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OneJohn410
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Caution- anything you attempt to gain from this post may or may not relate to your own life, and should not be taken to infer the goodness or kind intent of the male populace as a whole. Everyone knows there's sour grapes on either side of the room along with the sweet ones.
To me, in the first few times I go out with a woman, physical touch, all by itself, means sensory perception is working. Think about a pizza. A man will eat a slice, say yum! that was good, is there any left? A woman will say yum! I love their supreme pizza. The sausage, the onions... wow! I'm stuffed! Maybe she can break apart a date into the physical, the verbal, the visual, the choices made and by who... etc. etc. I can't and really have no desire to try to disect a date and look for individual meanings to each facet of it. Touch without words, expression, tone of voice... It's like pizza without the crust- a big mess everywhere.
If I touch her, you may assume it is for some other reason.
Would I continue to touch a woman on the first couple dates even if she does not return it, and if so, why? No, not without really good cause. Like learning she had a rough day and dozing off during a movie and needing to be woken back up, or if she appears to be in an epileptic seizure, or choking, or CPR if no one around has a clue.
If a woman does not return your touch, do you think she isn't interested? In the first couple dates, there's usually not a lot of hugging, kissing, hand holding, good-game spanking. I get a lot more feedback from words and expressions than touch, especially when we are just out to get to know each other.
How much of this is appropriate for two people who are not engaged, or not committed, or or not exclusive? On the first few dates, I'd say just about all of it. I'm not going to psychoanalyze any of my former relationships over the course of their duration, but thanks for the offer.
If it's not appropriate, than why not? Because you are just getting to know one another.
If it is not only appropriate but also a helpful or necessary step in a developing relationship, why is it helpful or necessary?
And then in chapter 5 we read that it is at this time, being two weeks into the dating relationship, that hand-holding may be necessary to keep two people having so much fun together from stumbling off a curb in his or her inattentiveness.
See what I'm saying? You can only go so far with this before it should be realized that it's really up to the couple dating to communicate and reach some collective decisions about things.
OneJohn410
_____________________________
Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. Ephesians 2:9-10
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/12/2008 10:23:39 AM
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stamper_ben
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Touch is natural and important to the senses. Babies can thrive with touch, without it they can languish.
I recently read about the progression of touch in a relationship. (I may not have this absolutely correct.) It begins with a short light touch on an elbow or shoulder. Then comes hand holding. An arm around the waist is next. Touching the face is the next facet of the relationship. Then kissing and of course the touching of each others bodies when the two are intimate.
One of my love languages is touch, so I can be a touchy person to those who I am comfortable with and are comfortable with me. I want to emphasis that part of being comfortable. I will, can and do on occasion touch coworkers, lightly touching them on the shoulder as I pass be as a way of letting them know I am behind them, or taking them by the elbow if there is a need to guide them out of the way of something. But if I sense that the person is not comfortable with it, I keep hands off, and I will not let the touching get beyond the first stage in that progression I posted up above. This is because I have been married for over thirty years now.
I hope this addressed some of your question.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/12/2008 11:44:08 AM
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buckifn
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Touch is a very intimate expression of one's feelings sometimes and I think it's impossible to make one statement that is all inclusive just because it is a first date.
Touching the face, the hair, the hand can all be ways to express love, desire, appreciation, understanding, and many other things.
There has been times I touch someone's hand to say I understand. So I don't see how you can get one answer to figure out every person's touch you may go on a date with.
If you want to know what is approp. and acceptable I suggest you pray and ask God's Spirit to guide you in your relationship. What works well for one relationship may be the worst thing for another.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/12/2008 1:32:18 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8036
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah4319
I'm asking for the wisdom of time and experience, as a younger lady without a lot of experience with men, having grown up in a very conservative, almost all-female world.
Don' t know if I can bring any wisdom but that's never stopped me from spouting off before. 
quote:
What does physical touch mean to you in the first few times you go out with a woman? If you touch her, why do you do so - is it to increase attraction, demonstrate interest, or - something less innocent than many on this board seem to assume? Or some other reason?
To me touch is an expression of my care for and attraction to a woman. (read more just below)
quote:
Will you continue to touch a woman even if she does not return it, and if so, why?
Probably not. I am very touch oriented. I will only touch a woman whom I am very attracted to (in a "yes this woman is a strong potential match for me" sort of way). So much so that on the first or second date if I am not comfortable touching her there will be no third date.
quote:
If a woman does not return your touch, do you think she isn't interested?
Normally yes, unless she explains herself and expresses interest in me in other ways. For example, lets say I try to hold her hand and she says "I'd rather not right now. I don't think we know each other well enough but hopefully sometime soon" or something like that then it is OK. Because I know she is interested but reserved
quote:
Some people talk about the progression of touch in a dating relationship. First there's accidental touch, they say, then touching the hand, then holding hands, then arm around shoulders, arm around waist.... How much of this is appropriate for two people who are not engaged, or not committed, or or not exclusive? If it's not appropriate, than why not? If it is not only appropriate but also a helpful or necessary step in a developing relationship, why is it helpful or necessary?
Some touch can be very appropriate. Some can be very inappropriate. I don't think a relationship can truly grow without some touch. As we grow closer together we will want to be closer together. putting artificial barriers in teh way of that leaves the relationship somewhat cold and sterile. Touch (for me at least) produces warmth and tenderness.
The other guys had some great points also.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/13/2008 12:34:49 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
What works well for one relationship may be the worst thing for another.
Exactly.
Individuals range by the numbers, so does their capability to resisting temptation. What may be out of love and affection for one, could lead to something iniquitous for another.
_____________________________
The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/13/2008 5:15:22 PM
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willfs
Posts: 316
Joined: 12/28/2007
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Welcome to the whole "How much affection is too much" discussion/debate.
In your situation I think you should go slow. Actually, that isn't that bad an idea for anyone. But you say you don't have a lot of experience in dating. I would say you should be open with your date about how you feel about his touching you and your struggle with how much is too much.
As for guys and why they touch: They could do so for any and all the reasons you stated. We dont' know much about the guy so we couldn't tell you.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/14/2008 7:01:15 AM
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MWD
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From: New Hampshire
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I always let the woman go first -- and more than once, just to be sure. That way, there's no doubt, and no possibility of offense.
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"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist."
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/14/2008 10:49:22 AM
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willfs
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MWD
I always let the woman go first -- and more than once, just to be sure. That way, there's no doubt, and no possibility of offense.
MWD. I am not saying that letting her go first is wrong. It may very well be an okay thing to do and I really appreciate that sentiment.
Its just been my experience, from my relationships as well as the relationships of those I know, that things work out real well when the guy is the assertive one. The problem comes when many guys abuse this principle and are assertive in the wrong way; ie, they get too physical, too soon.
An overwelming majority of women will not ever be the ones to ask the guy out and/or go up and introduce themselves. It can happen but not usually.
And most women want the guy to be the assertive one when it comes to things like the physical. I mean, they want the guy to be the one to take the first kiss, hand hold, arm over shoulder...etc... If the guy never does it then it might never happen.
You might not be argueing this point. Its just that I have found that woman, deep down, desire a guy who asserts himself, in the right way. Taking lead with things like physical touch (when appropriate) is one of those things they want the guy to take the lead on. Most guys don't have much trouble with this- but too many can go to far with this.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/15/2008 6:58:27 PM
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Isaiah4319
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Dear all, thanks for your responses. The overall gist seems to be that I need to evaluate on a case by case basis. I'm not exactly sure how to do this but maybe it will work itself out. I grew up thinking only married people should touch each other at all, so I perhaps place too much significance on touch between genders and need to learn a more flexible approach.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/15/2008 7:25:54 PM
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netstroller
Posts: 158
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: dust and ashes
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quote:
I'm not exactly sure how to do this but maybe it will work itself out.
To some extent that's true, but you're on the right track trying to figure out what's appropriate, what's the most wise. Don't do anything you're not comfortable with. When it comes to romantic touch, there is a lot more harm from too much than too little of it. You can't pregnant by touching too little. There are occassional cases of physical intimacy issues *after* marriage of people who put up big walls in this area before marriage, but this is a tiny fraction, and causes a tiny fraction, of the harm that comes all too often even among Christians from too much premarital physical contact.
Don't feel like you have to do something just because other's have accepted as common. General consensus is a poor indicator of best-practice given premarital sex is common even among believers. Even Christians often fail to make or notice the connection between their accepted actions and their unexpected "moral failures." True love waits. True love is demonstrated by self-sacrifice for the other. Only after marriage does true love *require* romantic physical contact.
_____________________________
...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, ...
(Heb 12:1-2)
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/18/2008 7:29:50 AM
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makarizo
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some guys are taught (by their piers) that all women want to be touched... some of them don't realize it..but they do. or they act like they don't, but they really need it.
I wouldn't touch a date unless she assured me that it was okay, and if it was not okay, that would be her prerogative, and if I didn't respect that, she should get far away from me.
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RE: Touch and dating - 8/18/2008 10:50:10 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4037
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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There are several different "love languages" as Dr Chapman wrote, and several flavors of each. Some need touch a lot more than others. Some can handle touch a lot better than others, i.e. they can hold hands, hug etc. w/out becoming overly hormonal. Some cannot.
I am not sure that a first (or even a 5th) date is the time to be "touchy-feely" anyway. But my personal experience in that dept. is woefully lacking.
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