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church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 6:18:58 PM
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staceynms
Posts: 13
Joined: 8/14/2008
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Hi ya'll,
I'm Stacey, new to the forums. I have a question. Hope to get some insight from you all. I did post in another forum, "The Church", but since I'm new, didn't know where to post, so thought I'd post here as well. :)
We have been attending our church for nine years. We have raised both our children in this church. It's a large church. But this year we found out that our teen daughter and her friends were allowed to drink at certain houses. The parents condoned this behavior and actually had a pact amongst a few of them. The pact was that they would allow the kids to drink as long as they did not drive. I was appalled upon hearing of this. And took a stand that this is wrong. Most of the parents do not attend our church. However, one couple does. But they state they were not involved in the pact and did not allow the kids the drink. However, they led me to believe that they would be chaperoning our daughter's senior trip. After her getting home and hearing of what all went on, I was livid. Confronting the parents only led to, sorry you felt we were there to chaperone. We were there only for emergencies.
We do worship with this family and attend the same Sunday school class. I'm utterly disappointed in these families and it's hard to get over this. However, the Lord is working on me for forgiveness.
Well since all this happened our 18 y.o. daughter fled our home, based on us telling her she could not stay here and not obey our house rules. She fled to the home of the non chaperoning parents. Wherein, I was livid. But kept it to myself. Then one day I did not, I let them know how I felt about them, hurt. So now, people at church are coming up to me and quoting scripture to me that the bible says to not provoke your children and that specifically means to fathers, b/c fathers can be intolerable. Hmm? When did underage drinking become tolerable? When did hearing of adults providing and allowing underage drinking become tolerable? I can only assume that these people who are coming up to church are gossiping about our family. The persons coming up to us and the family that our daughter fled to. Which by the way, she is not there anymore, she's moved on to another family. Oh and I was told that I was not broken enough for their likings, because I seemed to be in harmony with my child out of the home. My question is this....
If you attend a church where you know there is gossip and hypocrisy going on, do you stay or search for a new church? I want so badly to leave but my husband, you know the intolerable one, he says we need to stay and not let them run us off.
The Lord has broken us over our daughter living a life we did not raise her in. I feel angry that someone could judge me based on what they think they see, not what they know. I feel angry that people feel they have the right to give me advice on raising my children, when they do not have such a strong willed child. Or they allow their child to do things that we didn't think was appropriate for our child to do. My heart is so very broken over this. I love our church, I love the people, but how do I go and worship when God is dealing with me in areas of bitterness, anger, resentment towards these people. Will I be a stumbling block for the congregation because my heart is not where God wants it. Or will God give me time to get over this? I'm so confused. I can tell you this. I will not confront anyone again. But when and if someone else comes up to me to give me advice on how to raise my child, I will say..... well I don't know what I'll say. Everything sounds smarty and bitter, so I don't know what I'd say. Comments and advice welcomed....
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 6:59:43 PM
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musicboss11
Posts: 559
Joined: 5/4/2005
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I'm just addressing the question you asked: "if you attend a church where you know there is gossip and hypocrisy going on, do you stay or search for a new church". The answer is that there is gossip and hypocrisy at every single church. If you try to find a church that is free of those two things, it will never happen.
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 7:03:06 PM
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staceynms
Posts: 13
Joined: 8/14/2008
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Yes, I know that.... It's just hard. I try so hard to be, what you see is what you get, walk the walk, talk the talk and not to gossip. It's hard when it's about you.
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 7:23:59 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5677
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: musicboss11
I'm just addressing the question you asked: "if you attend a church where you know there is gossip and hypocrisy going on, do you stay or search for a new church". The answer is that there is gossip and hypocrisy at every single church. If you try to find a church that is free of those two things, it will never happen.
I would disagree that there is gossip and hypocrisy at every Church. That is just paiting with too wide a brush.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 7:40:33 PM
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staceynms
Posts: 13
Joined: 8/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: musicboss11
I'm just addressing the question you asked: "if you attend a church where you know there is gossip and hypocrisy going on, do you stay or search for a new church". The answer is that there is gossip and hypocrisy at every single church. If you try to find a church that is free of those two things, it will never happen.
I would disagree that there is gossip and hypocrisy at every Church. That is just paiting with too wide a brush.
Thanks
RC
I think when we deal with people, we deal with imperfection. However, I do believe that there are churches where the "whole" is seeking God.
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 8:00:43 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3393
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
I don't want anymore confrontation.
As a fellow non-confrontational person, I can say this is probably the problem.
Have you talked with your daughter to find out what she is doing and why she left other than she did not want to follow your rules anymore?
Have you talked to those people who have confronted you in church with the full details of the situation? I cannot imagine christians condoning in any way underage drinking. If the majority of people in your church believe in underage drinking then I would definitly leave....or...
tell the pastor and maybe a good sermon will come out of it. Again, I cannot imagine the majoirity of christians in a church condoning either underage drinking or a rebelious child.
As far as your daughter goes, I know this has to be very hard on you. Unfortunately, young people often go through these things. Lets pray its just a youth thing and it will pass without much scarring.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 8:41:54 PM
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staceynms
Posts: 13
Joined: 8/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
I don't want anymore confrontation.
As a fellow non-confrontational person, I can say this is probably the problem.
Have you talked with your daughter to find out what she is doing and why she left other than she did not want to follow your rules anymore?
Have you talked to those people who have confronted you in church with the full details of the situation? I cannot imagine christians condoning in any way underage drinking. If the majority of people in your church believe in underage drinking then I would definitly leave....or...
tell the pastor and maybe a good sermon will come out of it. Again, I cannot imagine the majoirity of christians in a church condoning either underage drinking or a rebelious child.
As far as your daughter goes, I know this has to be very hard on you. Unfortunately, young people often go through these things. Lets pray its just a youth thing and it will pass without much scarring.
I briefed the people. But they were so pushing that it was all my husband's fault that I didn't want to say anything to dishonor him. It's just a huge mess. They made me feel as if..... your child becomes rebellious it must be the parents fault.... I did tell one of them that I was diligently praying for them not to ever have to walk in my footsteps with a rebellious child. And that's only because I really wanted to say.... Oh I hope your child is worse than mine ever could be. But, thankfully God put me in my place quickly.
I don't think for the most part the people involved with the confronting, scripture throwing and non chaperoning are condoning underage drinking. The one family, that went with them on their senior trip, I think they just turn a blind eye, and the others.... I think they truly feel they are helping by rebuking us. And it comes across as very judgemental. So is it done in love? I don't think so. No, most people don't know what we've been through with our daughter. ALthough, I for the life of me can not understand why people would not even "think" about this before saying anything. Maybe I just think differently. Because I've been through it with her. When I see a parent "fed up", I know there is a reson they are fed up, not just b/c they're weak, provoking, etc. Parents are not perfect and we've made more than a few mistakes. I feel set apart for sure............
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/14/2008 9:04:27 PM
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staceynms
Posts: 13
Joined: 8/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
I don't want anymore confrontation.
Have you talked with your daughter to find out what she is doing and why she left other than she did not want to follow your rules anymore?
Yes, she doesn't want to have "rules". She wants to be free to do what she wants, with whom and whatever. We went a month w/out talking to her. And then all this happened at church. She got wind of how upset I was and broke the silence. Now she's still "out" there and not ever coming back. But, we've set boundaries that she can not be around us and act, dress a certain way. And she agreed to our guidelines. Now we're just waiting on God..... Letting go and letting God is harder than dealing with them at church.....
I've often wondered why people sit in a pew at church and just sob.... Dont' get me wrong, I've sobbed at church, but I mean... the really broken sob, that you usually do at home alone. Now I know why they do. It's brokenness...............
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/15/2008 8:48:00 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 2001
Joined: 8/30/2007
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Oooooh Stacy, my heart goes out to you. I grew up with my brother being a serious wild child. The church knew and turned their backs on us after he died. I understand the brokenness you feel. What was once your "safe haven" has been compromised.
The parents on the trip were irresponsible and need to be held accountable for that. What would have happened if their was an accident while the kids were drinking? What if one of them died from alcohol poisoning? Other people's kids could be put in a dangerous situation in the future.
As for your church, I'm so sorry that you are experiencing this.
I know that it is hard in your situation to have compassion for these people. However, if they are not responding to you in love and placing blame, these people need compassion because they have not, a lick of it.
((((((Stacy)))))))
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/15/2008 10:08:34 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Confronting the parents only led to, sorry you felt we were there to chaperone. We were there only for emergencies.
I think the first problem occured when you and the adults going on the trip did not come to a full understanding with one another. That I can see falling on "both sides" equally.
I "knew" my son was not going to have a chaperone on his senior trip. In fact he took care of many of the adults who did go. (yes the adults were on vacation as well and may were drinking heavily) I am friends with the family of the young girl who was killed in Aruba. (Natalie Holloway) So I knew up front what the adults going on the trip were there for. Emergencies - not to watch over the young adults.
quote:
quote:
I can only assume that these people who are coming up to church are gossiping about our family.
The part above is another concern I have. You are assuming something. Don't even go there. That's what got you in this situation in the first part I addressed. You assumed something that was not true.
quote:
When did hearing of adults providing and allowing underage drinking become tolerable?
I know in some circles when I was in high school some 30 years ago this was going on.
That does not mean that as a parent we don't have the right to let those folks know we will call the law on them if they provide alcohol to our minor child. That "is" what I did when my son was in HS. Flat out to their face. I will have you arrested.
quote:
Well since all this happened our 18 y.o. daughter fled our home, based on us telling her she could not stay here and not obey our house rules.
You have put the focus on your church and the other parents. Big Mistake. This is a family problem and that is where it needs to be discussed and addressed. You are going off on rabbit trails by focusing on what brought this to a head and now people outside your family.
Refocus on your family and working this out with your daughter.
Remember it's was your daughter's choice to leave your home and disobey your rules. It was also her choice to tell you what happened on the trip and I am pretty sure she knew it would upset you and your husband.
Now that she is an adult and has chosen to take her own course in life you can still love her and have a good relationship with her. Invite her over for supper one night and just enjoy being with her. Your relationship with her is changing. You are not longer the mother of a child you are now the mother of an adult. That means your relationship is changing. It can change to the better if you give it a shot.
__________
OH NO something just hit me!!!! I was in HS 40!!!! years ago.....
See adults providing booze for kids has probably been going on since the beginning of the creation of it.
< Message edited by P31W -- 8/15/2008 10:54:27 AM >
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/15/2008 10:19:44 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
The parents on the trip were irresponsible and need to be held accountable for that.
When our son went on his senior trip we (the group of parents) had a lawyer draw up papers and explain to us - as a group - that our 18 year old adults (no one under 18 was allowed to go) were responsible for their own actions. If they broke the laws of the country they were in they would go to prison and the adults who were there with them would leave with the group - so the parents better fly there if they wanted someone to be in that country with them.
If they were hospitalized the adults would leave on the due date with the group.
The adults were going along simply to help incase of an emergency.
Each parent and the adult going on the trip going was to sign a legal form there at the meeting and a notary was there to stamp it. We had to produce our drivers licenses inorder to show our identity.
Anyone who didn't feel their son/daughter was responsible enough to go on a trip without supervision was free to not sign the paper and in almost all of the cases pay for the rather expensive trip for them. By not signing the paper the now 18-19 year old would not be included in the "package" deal and they would have to make their own arrangements if they wanted to go on the trip. Plane tickets, curise tickets and hotel stay. (probably could not be booked at the same place or time)
At 18 one is a legal adult. In many countries it's legal for them to drink alcohol. For me this deals with adults not being mature enough to handle adulthood.
< Message edited by P31W -- 8/15/2008 10:29:32 AM >
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/15/2008 1:19:10 PM
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staceynms
Posts: 13
Joined: 8/14/2008
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Hi guys and gals!
Thanks for the replies. You all have some great insight.
yes, we have started working on changing our relationship. And yes, we started to blame, I can see that. hmm... good advice. It's just frustrating.
And no, before they went on their senior trip, I was not going to allow my daughter to go b/c she was 17. Then this family talked me into letting her go, promises that it would be fine, they'd watch them, etc.... reassured me nothing would be going on....and then when they got back...bam! oh sorry, we were there only for emergencies. I decided then and there that they were not worth, but you said back and forth type of game. I let that be a hard lesson for me.... real hard.... but it was a lesson learned. I will not make that same mistake with my 14 y.o.
I don't have time to quote what you all said. But you've given me some to think about...
yes this is a family issue and we tried to keep it private. But the DD ran to the other families house, hence bringing them into it. However, I was very reserved what I did tell them from our point of view...and then other people at church started coming up to me and telling me they knew what had happened, etc, quoting scripture So no I'm not assuming they were gossiping, b/c I hadn't talked w/ these people about it, other than the family she ran to. One woman actually told me that the mother that my daughter ran to, that she told her what was going on. This was all after the confrontation with the senior trip. It's all apples and oranges.... It's just hard for me to go back to the church where they are. It's hard to hold your head up high, when you know you've done nothing wrong, but as a woman, emotions take over and it's just hard.... And this is how God molds our character right? Through adversity.... ?.....
Anyways, thanks for your responses..... thanks for the food for thought. and please if you have something else you want to add, please do so. I'll be out of town this weekend and unavailable to read responses till late Sunday. But I welcome your input. That's why I came to a Christian board.
God Bless,
S
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/15/2008 2:02:58 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2357
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
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I just wanted to encourage you with this scripture.
1 Peter 2:15 NLT
It is God’s will that your honorable lives should silence those ignorant people who make foolish accusations against you.
Keep praying for those who have spoken against you, keep believing God that He will restore your daughter to you (And He will! He has done it in my life with my daughter!), mainly, trust HIM, He will never leave you (Never Never Never!) nor forsake you!
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: church gossip and hypocrisy - 8/16/2008 11:24:38 AM
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upNORTder
Posts: 219
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
Well since all this happened our 18 y.o. daughter fled our home, based on us telling her she could not stay here and not obey our house rules.
Except for being legally old enough to drink, she is an adult.
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