|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 12:13:13 PM
|
|
|
chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
|
if we are committing fornication, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality and such things we will not see the kingdom of god. now many people contest that this is a condemning message. however this the word of god. so are they saying that the word of god is condemning rather than life changing? is this message condemning or is it ment to draw people to the truth of our sins and repentance? this text comes from 1 corinthians 6:9-10.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 12:56:39 PM
|
|
|
LCannon
Posts: 1261
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: offline
|
Paul was dealing with the Corinthians church, largely. When one claims to be redeemed by the same blood as me(us)I'm 'entitled' to press them for glimpses of obedience and our shared sacrifice. However, when a person or faction doesn't(or won't)acknowledge His Sacrifice and Victory in unbelief pressing for obedience('purity in marriage' or a 'pro-life' stance from an unrepentant soul comes to mind)is moot because a unrepentant virgin(sorry)is going to hell anyway. Probably rather then expecting saltwater to taste fresh(James 3:12)we should be about showing our saltiness(Colossians 4:6)before we should except obedience from them(Matthew 5:13).
< Message edited by LCannon -- 8/18/2008 1:26:06 PM >
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:02:47 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5677
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
I think that any message can be condemning, and most Biblical messages will be recieved as condemning by many; But
Jesus Himself says;
(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
So that tells me that folks condemn themselves by not believing in Christ and making Him Lord.
He also says;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Now the whole of Scripture is what he says so; is speaking the truth of the Word condemning anyone?
I think not as speaking the truth of the Word is offering those that have chosen condenmation a way of escape.
There are many different ways to present the Word of God, but all of them offer peace, salvation, and Glory to those who hear and respond.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:10:19 PM
|
|
|
Focusing
Posts: 6020
Status: offline
|
This is what the Word says ... however, is the Word being used to condemn people (telling them they will never make it to heaven because of their sin) or is it being used to condemn the sin itself?
_____________________________
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:19:37 PM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 1904
Status: offline
|
quote:
if we are committing fornication, adultery, idolatry, homosexuality and such things we will not see the kingdom of god. now many people contest that this is a condemning message. however this the word of god. so are they saying that the word of god is condemning rather than life changing? is this message condemning or is it ment to draw people to the truth of our sins and repentance? this text comes from 1 corinthians 6:9-10.
What you are observing is a world that does not accept or want authority of any kind. And that includes much of the professing church. We want God 'our way' rather than as Who He is.
We are a people who do not take correction. We justify ourselves and say 'oh, that word isn't for us, it's for so and so' instead of letting the Holy Spirit deal with us and our own hearts.
Read Roy Hession's, The Calvary Road, if you want to better understand the kind of truth the Lord wants us to walk in.  His book was/is one of the best IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:26:10 PM
|
|
|
justajerk
Posts: 129
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
This is what the Word says ... however, is the Word being used to condemn people (telling them they will never make it to heaven because of their sin) or is it being used to condemn the sin itself?
If this is not a condemnation of the sinner then he has no need of a savior.
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:32:06 PM
|
|
|
Focusing
Posts: 6020
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: justajerk
If this is not a condemnation of the sinner then he has no need of a savior.
We are all sinners in need of a savior ... and accepting Christ does not instantaneously cause us to become nonsinners who are perfect beings. We must be careful about condemning people versus condemning the sin itself. There is a difference.
_____________________________
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:37:25 PM
|
|
|
chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
|
there is a lot of great posts here and alot of great things to think about.
lcannon, while i very much agree with what you wrote i also feel lead to point out that there are many in the churches today that are claiming the same blood and yet they are doing all of these things. i think that we are missing these teachings in the churches because we are afraid to offend people.
rcjames, awesome post thank you for the scripture. jesus definately did not condemn. he gives us hope in our lost state. he letrs us know the way out of our sins and wicked hearts.
focusing, this is a very important point. if we present it in a way that is condemning rather in a way that people can see there need for repentance and acceptance of christ as there lord and saviour, then i think we who are giving the message need to check our hearts.
liveloved, the world definitely wants god their own way. you are right. sometimes it is hard for us all to accept god the way he is because we often do not want to accept our own faults. i will definitely look into this book.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:40:04 PM
|
|
|
HisCovenant
Posts: 4288
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
The message is not condemning, but is stating a truth that our sin condemns us. However, there is a balancing, hopeful message from God that says that we can accept His sacrifice and repent that ought to be given in concert with message that sin is horrid. Both need to be given to stay in line with God's word.
I also think a lot of people take parts of what is being said and internalize and personalize pieces of the truth in a way that was unintended, ie as condemnation. I can't tell you how many times I have given advice when asked and then been told "not to judge" after giving revealing insight and explaining how to turn from the sin and flee Satan. Lots of times people don't hear the truth of hope when it means they will have to change. I think this goes along with what Liveloved was saying about not wanting to accept authority. People just don't want to hear that they are wrong and that they have some control (not to knock the sovereignty of God.) Somehow, it's easier for some to think that circumstances just happened to them and not admit they are where they are because they chose to be. IMO, taking responsibility is easier, but I don't find many who agree with me. Maybe it's a personality thing.
_____________________________
-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 1:41:12 PM
|
|
|
LCannon
Posts: 1261
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: offline
|
quote:
is it being used to condemn the sin itself?
Sometimes 'we' stop at their 'sinning'(outward external manifestations)as though their 'sinning' is the goal without condemning the 'sin'(personal arrogance against His sacrifice/Victory).
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 2:14:24 PM
|
|
|
Mickley
Posts: 12
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
|
Note: some of what I write below is my understanding of the Bible. I will share with you some of my understanding and will hope that it is helpful to you. As you know my understanding of the Bible is different than the actual text of the Bible. So, please check anything I write below that is not Bible text against the Bible. No way is my text on the same level as the Bible text. Our human understandings and opinions of the Bible may not be accurate.
I realize potentially none of what I've written below may be new to you.
This 1st verse I list here talks about our present condition. [Now]
JN 12:47
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it."
This 2nd verse I list here talks about a future condition. [The Future] (Revelation contains lots of information about the future which is not necessarily very understandable to us at present.)
REV 14:7
“Fear God,” he shouted. “Give glory to him. For the time has come when he will sit as judge. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and all the springs of water.”
So, it appears that in the present, Jesus is not judging us people, and that in the future He will judge us people.
[An ex boogie boarder (sort of like an ex surfer) signing out: Hang 10 man]
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 2:40:13 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 2001
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
If peopel feel condemnation and reject the Word, they weren't looking for salvation to begin with, what they wanted was justification to continue in their sin.
We can not continue to preach a gospel that appeals to the listener. We become false teachers.
Some will accept and repent, many, many other will not.
Heart breaking but true.
To say that the Word condemns is true. If the people reject the Word of God, they are already condemned. It's not us condemning, it is their choice to be condemned.
Rom 14:22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 2:46:49 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5677
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
This is what the Word says ... however, is the Word being used to condemn people (telling them they will never make it to heaven because of their sin) or is it being used to condemn the sin itself?
Well let's see; if a person is in sin and never becomes a believer in Christ then that sin will buy them a ticket to hell.
The Word says they are already condemned;
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So is telling someone that truth condemning them; I think not since they are already condemned by their own actions.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 2:57:44 PM
|
|
|
bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
|
Sin is sin. A church that preaches otherwise, or softsells the eternal effects of unrepentant sin have the blood of those who heard their sissy message on their hands.
If you feel condemned, that is probably conviction by the Holy Spirit brought on the the message. Your toes got stepped on.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 3:51:07 PM
|
|
|
chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
|
i agree with all these posts. i think that the word love in the bible has been changed to lets manipulate them into becoming a member of our church so that it looks good for the other boards of our huge business i mean denomination. oops. lol
this fluff love teaching and claiming that is in the world is dangerous for the souls of man kind. a lot of people are going to be deceived by it as the bible states. but we are to minister to those people the truth regardless.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 4:55:18 PM
|
|
|
Focusing
Posts: 6020
Status: offline
|
quote:
is the Word being used to condemn people (telling them they will never make it to heaven because of their sin) or is it being used to condemn the sin itself?
I don't think I've ever quoted myself before 
To point out that an unsaved person is sinning is one thing (by pointing out what the Word says), yet to not tell them that they can still be saved would be doing them a disservice. Even those who are saved are sinners.
Speaking the Truth is bold and what we should do, no arguments with anyone here, but ... but we need to be careful that we are not condemning them ... the person ... but rather their sin. To tell a homosexual "you are going to hell because the God's Word says homosexual behavior is an abomination" and leave it at that would be wrong.
I was raised in a church that taught me that unless I did this and this and that and repeated enough certain prayers that I would go to hell. Whew! I cannot begin to tell you the deep relief and eternal thanks I experienced knowing that even though I have not been and continue to not be perfect, having accepted Christ means I get to go to heaven, and I am rather passionate in making sure to separate the fact that we should condemn the sin a person does versus condemning the whole person.
I do not believe in "fluff" churches, nor do I believe in preaching continuously that we are all sinners condemned to hell. There must be a balance. People need to know that God loves them, and He wants the best for them, and He has the most excellent guidelines all spelled out right there in the Bible for us ... and they need to know and believe that there is hope. If they believe that there is no hope, why would they care to listen to His Word, and why would they bother to accept Christ? There needs to be preaching and teaching of the whole Word, not just condemnation ... which to me is manipulative scare tactics. Been there, and I can tell you it didn't work on me and I walked the other way. But when someone took the time to teach me about God's love and that He wanted to lift me out of a life of sin, my whole world changed.
_____________________________
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 9:44:23 PM
|
|
|
makarizo
Posts: 3007
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
condemning someone is just a mean spirited manipulative attack that quenches the Spirit, and is just lazy.
Condemning someone implies that there is no forgiveness, that repentance is non optional
if you want to point to the condemner, your finger will have to point down..... I don't want to be like him.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 10:19:22 PM
|
|
|
x_SoliDeoGloria_x
Posts: 158
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
|
The reformers said "lex semper accusatat," which means the law always accuses. In Romans, Paul said that the purpose of the law is not to show us how to become righteous, but rather to show us that we are sinners. Until we realize that we are sinners, we won't feel any need for the gospel. The law has to fulfill its purpose of demonstrating that we stand condemned before God before we can respond to the gospel and its offer of a saviour. It's kind of like the bumper sticker that says "Jesus is the answer." If the law hasn't convinced us of our need for a saviour, our response will be "Oh, that's nice. What was the question?"
_____________________________
"Not by work going before grace shall I deserve grace, nor by my work following grace shall I deserve eternal life; but to him that believes, sin is pardoned and righteousness imputed." -- Martin Luther
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 10:26:18 PM
|
|
|
LCannon
Posts: 1261
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: offline
|
"We hardly ever relate our theology to the current world philosophy. It is not that we do not know the answers[on both sides]. My observation is that most people don't even know the questions."
Francis Schaeffer-"He Is There and He Is Not Silent"
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 10:32:53 PM
|
|
|
chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
|
yes we definitely agree that we need to be clear and careful not to condemn the sin. i beleive before we can truly help people see that they are sinners we need to first tell them of the hope that we have in christ. share a testimony or explain to them. possibly put the fear of god in them first. proverbs 1 states that the beginning of knowledge is the fear of god.
this is how the lord first started to work in my life. a lady came around my jail cell where they put me to be alone because of my behavior. she told me to read deut. 28. that was a very scary chapter for someone that beleives in god but not living it.
i truly believe that the only right answer is to fallow the leading of the holy spirit.
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/18/2008 10:35:28 PM
|
|
|
my quivers full
Posts: 77
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
|
quote:
this text comes from 1 corinthians 6:9-10.
Such passages of scripture are only condemning to those who do not want to repent of their sins. People don't like having the light shed on their dark deeds, It shows them they are not walking in truth. I believe such passages are written not to pass judgement on people but rather to warn them that if they continue in such things, judgement will come and they will be found guilty. If you read such a passage of scripture and it ****s your heart you have 2 choices, repent and walk in the freedom that Christ died so you may have, or harden your heart, justify your sin and condemn the word which shows that your deeds are evil.
_____________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------
No trees were hurt in the making of this post, but a few electrons were terribly inconvienenced :)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/19/2008 7:26:56 AM
|
|
|
chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
"We hardly ever relate our theology to the current world philosophy. It is not that we do not know the answers[on both sides]. My observation is that most people don't even know the questions."
Francis Schaeffer-"He Is There and He Is Not Silent"
lcannon, i believe that you are right in many people do not know the question. however can i ask you to explain the part about philosophy and theology. what do they have that is hand in hand?
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/19/2008 8:55:42 AM
|
|
|
revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
|
I think I have to agree with RC, If you sin, you are condemned. If you were unsaved and not aware you were committing a sin, then realize you are when you are saved, and repent, then you are not condemned.
Christ offers salvation, however if you are unrepentant, well, you probably ought to get used to warmer climates.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: condemning message or bold truth. - 8/19/2008 9:03:34 AM
|
|
|
chrisovery
Posts: 156
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
|
yes your revbob4god. i agree with this aswell. so in todays world where sin is cinsidered a part of life and good. how do we show a world that is taught that if it feels good do it that they are sinners?
_____________________________
It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
