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kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 7/29/2008 9:40:24 AM
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Row1
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Hi!
I want to ask if other people are noticing something I and others in my family are noticing-
In school, our school-age children / adolescents are 'learning' so much about ethical behavior in the world, that I worry that these kids are believing that THEY are responsible for the world.
I believe that is too much repsonsibility for a child or adolescent.
I believe that my teenager, and all kids, should be taught to be responsible. But for the fate of the world?! I am worried that this is too much.
We took 3 teenage nieces to a baseball game last nite. One gets very upset if you don't recycle the plastic water bottle. OK no big deal. But someone tells me she also gets upset if people eat meat because she has been taught that it is unethical.
with another of these kids, I was saying something funny about how great it will be when we have cars like the Jetsons. Her response is that we will have to 'save the planet' or something like that, before we can get to the days of the flying car.
That really upset me - I can't even have a fun conversation about the future, and flying cars, without the kid's mind turning to the theme of how we are killing the planet.
Poisoning or killing the planet is not a good thing.
-BUT-
I am upset that the guilt and burden of the fate of the world is being laid on the shoulders of these children, while they are in school.
Why does this get pushed in schools? I guess because they are a captive audience.
I don't think it has made these kids any smarter. I generally do not see them learning chemistry so they can figure out chemical treatments for pollution, or ways to invent a better battery. I don't see them striving to learn physics so they can figure out how to reduce the risks from nuclear reactor waste.
All I see is 1. they almost can't have fun, 2. they are anxious and worried, 3. they only follow the existing solutions, rather than getting motivated to come up with new ones in their future, and 4. they are missing out on the basics - the 3 Rs, and how to think for themselves.
If we control what they think, and railroad their mind to have the knee-jerk response every time, I belive we will miss out on the kids who might actually pursue learning, and end up truly discovering something helpful, like a new way to treat wastewater, etc.
Have others noted how the environment theme and the ethical treatment of animals theme have crowded out learning?
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 7/30/2008 8:55:57 AM
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mommyplus3
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i tried to reply yesterday, but my computer went cuckoo 
i don't really think that our kids are being given too much respoonsibility. ithe concerns for our environment are being taught and talked about earlier - which is a good thing (IMO). kids today are learning that every little thing can make an impact when many take part. i like that kids have a conscience....like the recycling thing....if just kids recycle, our landfills will lessen...and then if they continue recycling throughout adulthood, and teach their kids - the impact wold be monumental. by making our kids aware, we are setting them up to change our world. it doesn't mean that they can't have fun or be a kid....it just means that they can think about longterm effects of their actions.
as for the animal rights, that's a difficult discussion to get into. my 3 kiddos and myself are vegetarians...so it is very close to my heart - and theirs. all i can say is that my kids are not bogged down by their animal beliefs.
we live in a very environmentally-fiendly town- where all public places have recycling, constuction is green, and our kids are exposed very early to saving the environment (my daughter won a costume contest for dressing as "global warming" :o). i love seeing these kids taking a stand, teaching others, and thinking about human's impact on the environment. these kids are the future...and they are already 1000 steps ahead. they might not have all of the answers now, but they are the ones thatwill find more and better solutions down the road - all because it has been sometying that they have known about and talked about forever.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't think kids lay in bed at night worried about the state of our planet...they still have fun...they are just green while playing 
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 7/30/2008 7:02:18 PM
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csl7037
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IMO kids are being brainwashed to think that capitalism, consumerism, and America in general are bad things. They're getting guilted or scared into falling in line with someone's social agenda and I do think it's unfair to lay on kids. Should they be recycling? Sure, I guess so. Should scare tactics like the planet is dying be used to convince them to recycle? No. And I will rip apart the first teacher that sends my child home telling me it's unethical to eat meat. My majorly carnivorous body builder hubby will flip his top over that one!
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 7/31/2008 6:03:29 AM
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mommyplus3
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wanted to elaborate:
i don't think that you will find any school pushing vegetarianism or any other eating choices (aside from eating healthy) pushed on kids - if anything, it is the opposite. my kids HAVE been told by teachers that their vegetarian choices are unhealthy and wrong- and that does tick me off!
as for the rest of it...i just don't see an agenda being shoved down our kids' throats. what i might see are children who are learning hings at home (mine) and talking about it with their peers. as i stated earlier, i do live in a "green" city, where most of us are very proactive, and 2 of my kids go to an arts based charter school - where there are more "liberal" views on the environment, tolerance, etc. the school recycles, composts, and reuses. they don't focus on it as in "shoving it down their troats." it is just a rule...that is explained in the beginning.
what i am trying to understand from the other 2 posters, is what is the downfall that is being seen from this? are you seeing kids that are depressed and withdrawn becasue they live in constant anxiety and fear of earth's peril? because i have never seen that. i just see children that are aware of their environment, and they take the small, almost effortless steps to minimize man's effect. would the right answer be to tell our children that there is no worry - that recycling is not necessary - that we can do whatever we want without considering the longterm effects of our actions?
i dunno....with my kids, it is a respect issue. God create this planet -our home....and it is only right and respectful that we take care of it as best we can (just like we should take care of our bodies). i'm sorry, i just don't get it ....
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 7/31/2008 5:31:28 PM
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pbaribeault
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quote:
IMO kids are being brainwashed to think that capitalism, consumerism, and America in general are bad things.
Capitalism: "An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market."
Consumerism: "The theory that a progressively greater consumption of goods is economically beneficial."
America, United States of: "A country of central and northwest North America with coastlines on the Atlantic and Pacific oceans."
Of the 3, I'd say that consumerism is definitely bad
That capitalism can be good if engaged in with steadfst virtue, but that it generally tends towards vice.
And that America is as America does... and that's known to be a mixed bag.
I presume I'm one of the brainwashed, by this standard, but I think that one would have to be brainwashed to think that greater consumption of goods is good for the soul, that private ownership and profit is anything special as a concept, or that any nation behaves well on all occasions.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 7/31/2008 8:33:03 PM
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zamdad
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My son going to be a junior in HS, came home with a project this past school year that required our signature on a form indicating we had watched a video over the internet with him and read his work. Initially he said, Here, just sign this.: When I asked what it was, he said it was something we would not be interested in. Being the nosy parent that I am, I told him I wanted to see what it was. He gave me the link to the site. I don't recall the name of the author. But, it was called Stuff. It was about how we use and dispose of all this stuff and it blamed our capitalistic society for the mess we're in. It was filled with propaganda to shape the worldview of our children. The teacher who gave this assignment is known for attacking Christian kids on their beliefs. His beef is that most kids don't know how to defend their faith, their only Christian because their parents are. Yet, the stuff he's pushing the kids to believe is merely grounded in the current cultural wave (which happens to be green) and nothing on absolute values.
Yes, I think there is a movement underway to indoctrinate our kids not only that it's their responsibility to save the planet, but that we are responsible for it's inevitable demise. As far as I'm concerned, Al Gore is nothing more than a modern day Charles Darwin, taking theories and teaching them as fact. He has gained the complicent cooperation of the media who dismeninate the information we take in. When we are consuming more media (TV, radio, print, internet) than we are scripture, is it any wonder we follow false gods down the rabbit trails of life?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/1/2008 9:14:47 AM
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Row1
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quote:
Should scare tactics like the planet is dying be used to convince them to recycle? No.
Mommyplus3, and others - I guess this quote is what I am concerned with - sure it is fine to teach responsibility, and to learn that your actions impact other.
But it crosses a line somewhere. For me, the line is crosssed when it involves guilt, and scare tactics.
Here is an analogy to get at what I think is going on with our kids:
We used to hear: "finish your food- people in china are starving."
So, as kids, we were being taught NOT that we should finish our food for health, or to get the habit of eating on a normal schedule, or because that is the plan decided by our parents, the authority.
We were being taught to eat all of our food or else we were guilty of depriving food from these starving Chinese.
OTHERWISE: what is the connection between what I might eat off my plate, and someone starving in China?
In the same way, I see the guilt and responsibility burden being put on the shoulders of these children.
The behavior of my family, including my children, is under MY control. I am responsible for everything happening in my family. If I truly believe that it is bad to send plastic bottles to the landfill, then I need to set up, for my family, the habits of recycling. The buck stops here, with Dad. The guilt does not fall on my youngsters. Anything happening in my family is MY responsibility. God put ME in charge of this family, and expects ME to stay on top of things.
In similar circumstances, we are all-too-quick to make sure kids DO NOT feel responsible: parents divorce, and we know we need to make sure that the kids do not feel responsible. Etc.
But the "environment" has become a very different issue. Same with vegetarianism.
I believe that in a lot of schools across the U.S., as I hear about all of this, it has crossed the line to the level of guilt and fear and scare tactics, and that we have, without noticing it, put the burden of responsibility on children, with these very ideas that if the kids grow up recycling, etc., then this new generation will save the planet. Sounds great - but think about it - this is clearly saying to the kids: YOU are responsible.
I don't think they are responsible, but I do believe that the public schools are an easy place to promote social beliefs.
The idea of recycling is beautiful - I am not going to argue with the idea of recycling. I have studied this a lot, including in formal coursework, and even worked for an environmental group for a while, so I have more knowledge about this than the average person. I believe that we should be recycling as much as it is worthwhile.
But I disagree with hammering these kids with the idea so that they can't even enjoy a simple costume contest. To me, that is sad. And I believe it can lead to excessive worrying, and a missed opportunity to do the things that kids should be doing at this special point in their lives.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/1/2008 9:22:48 AM
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revbob4God
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except for divorce, I totally agree with you. I have never seen a situation where children had responsibility in a divorce. But I applaud your contention..."Eat your vegetables and all on your plate because I am your mother and I said so." Sounds like you are a great mom. Keep up the good work.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/1/2008 12:33:42 PM
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backrowbaptist
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Former high school teacher chiming in here. Yes, schools are brainwashing our kids to believe that the way we live our lives in our capatilist society is dooming the planet. I've had too many conversations with teenagers, both hysterical and jaded, trying to reassure them that they had a bright future ahead, not one fraught with environmental peril. I tried to tell them that ever since I was in school, there have been dire predictions of global catastrophy, from a new Ice Age to over population to ozone depletion, and ALL of them proved to be false or over-blown. I managed to make a little headway, but mostly I was met with scorn, accused of being an tree killer or likened to a holocaust denyer (for daring to question global warming... or is it climate change?) Now I'm having to reassure my new step children (7 and 9 yrs.) that you don't need to panic every time you see someone smoking, or when daddy throws a water bottle in the trash, or lose sleep over the melting ice caps, or whatever else your teachers (or PBS) tell you will kill your planet. Maybe I'll make more headway with them, but I'm not optomistic.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/1/2008 1:51:11 PM
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csl7037
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Wow, it occurs to me that we (society) wants our children to be free from any feelings of guilt or failure - excuses for everything we do wrong, every failure, blame somebody else is the mantra of current generations, I fear. But, on the flip side, they're encouraged to be responsible and feel guilty for things that are really out of their control.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/1/2008 2:03:51 PM
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zamdad
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I am convinced that there is a movement trying to "brainwash" kids into thinking that they/we are resposible for saving the planet. We have a complicit media that conveys the message that we are destroying the planet with our overgrown carbon footprint. The education establishment is complicit as well, but we must remember that much of what is taught in schools is driven by media headlines.
What's interesting is that the media picks and chooses which stories to pontificate about. Recently I saw on Yahoo news two articles posted next to one another. One was that global warming is going to cause an increase in terrorism and the other was about volcanoes under the arctic ice. Now, what global warming has to do with terrorism is beyond me. Does global warming cause ideology that desires everyone convert to Islam or die? Whay do we not hear more about volcanic activity under the ice caps? We're hearing about the declining polar bear population and that climate change is the cause of this. If there's volcanic activity under the ice caps and heat rises, wouldn't this be a contributing factor to melting ice?
Another thing I noticed was a news feature on winter soltice 2006. A large chunk of ice broke off a glacier off Greenland. The news report said that global warming was the cause of the break. They then went to footage of a correspondent on scene. It showed the male correspondent in a boat, with open water and chunks of ice, he was wearing a light jacket, no hat or gloves and the sun was shining. Now, for most viewers, this would not be unusual. Yet, after 18 years of living in Alaska, I was aware that the sun does not shine above the arctic circle in December, that there is no open water above the arctic circle in December and that there is no way a person would survive above the arctic circle would be out without a heavy jacket, hat and gloves.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/1/2008 6:25:44 PM
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mommyplus3
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i am just having a hard time believing that there are children who actually lose sleep at night becasue they are suffering severe anxiety attacks and guilty consciences over the state of our planet. as i have stated before...my kids do go to a school where environmentalism is part of the curriculum, and i assure you that none of my kids (nor the many other "activist-type" children i know) are depressed or have any other issues about it. they do what's right...kind like saying no to drugs - because they are strong in their beliefs. but no major stress over their rsponsibility.
it just boils down to thh responsibility of taking care of what we are given. i am sure that most of you teach you childern to take care of ther bodies that God has given to them....i would assume that your children are taught to take care of material things....what is the difference? foget global warming....i won't get into that debate...but, recycling is healthy for the environment - period. it causes less waste, uses less space, and saves money. why would anyone be concerned that their children were encouraged to recycle? would you rather that they be taught to be wasteful?
as for the vegetarian animal rights thing...that is not taught in school - at all. a child might possibly come in contact with another child that has those beliefs (which are in their right) - and that may spark some curiosity...and that is the job of parents to deal with it and explain their values and beliefs. i also don't think that the mainstream media is promoting vegetarianism. PETA? sure....but that is far from mainstream. and just for the record....environmentalism and animal rights are separate issues. many times people feel strongly about both...but they are still separate.
i guess the point boils down to there are things that our kids will be exposed to - some good and some bad....but it is up to us parents to have influence, and help steer our children where they shold go.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/4/2008 12:00:57 PM
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Row1
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quote:
i would assume that your children are taught to take care of material things....what is the difference?
we also teach our children about managing money.
but - many kids get a lot of anxiety when their families have money problems.
we try to teach our kids about relationships and boundaries - but we all know that kids can often blame themselves when a divorce happens. this is difficult emotionally for them.
so, mommyof3 - there are two examples where it is clear that it is not easy for us to figure out the balance between teaching kids about the real world, but not overburdening them, or having them take on a feeling of guilt for this.
i am an adult. i am responsible for judging what my children can and cannot handle. it is not easy. but when they begin to feel guilty or responsible for things that are well beyond their control, then for me that is the the point where it has gone too far.
i have heard bits and pieces of comments from kids and parents about this save-the-world stuff being promoted to kids from many angles. these couple of recent experiences talking with teens in my family have struck me and it doesn't seem right.
kids get this stuff from school, from cartoons, and from the games and packaging of their food at the fast food places, and on other food packaging - whenever something is aimed at kids, and has cartoon-y things on it.
i think we need to pay attn to this.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/5/2008 5:41:22 AM
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mommyplus3
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okay, so i get your point - even though i strongly disagree....but i must ask... exactly what is being said in schools that is being considered brainwashing (hwever remotely) on this subject? maybe that would make it more clear for me...just wondering
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/5/2008 6:31:23 AM
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zamdad
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I previously referenced something my son brought home from school. It's called the Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard. Here's the link.[link=http://www.storyofstuff.com/link] I previewed the first section again. She talks about how we live on a finite planet. if the planet is finite, is our fixing it going to make it last longer? She speaks about how the government's job is to watch out for us, to take care of us and then goes on to say that corporations have become bigger than government and that the government is looking out for corporations, not us. Just a quick review of the first section seems that she is attacking capitalism and promoting socialism under the guise of environmentalism. She begins her discussion holding an Ipod and asking if anyone ever wonders where this stuff comes from and then where it goes when we are done using it.
I know that some of the other parents in our area had difficulty with Annie's message. Her message is contrary to how we live here in farm country. I suppose I can see how her message would be recieved a little more warmly in urban environments.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/5/2008 8:47:22 AM
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SteveSund
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quote:
I previously referenced something my son brought home from school. It's called the Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard. Here's the link.[link=http://www.storyofstuff.com/link] I previewed the first section again.
This was assigned to him? I thought it raised some good points, but it could have done a much better job at how it presented things.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/5/2008 7:16:48 PM
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mommyplus3
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i have seen the story of stuff, and yeah, i guess it is accepted more in my somewhat urban environment.
but i thought the original poster was discussing more of environmentalism (recycling, vegetarianism, etc) and their concern of it being taight in schools. my question is what exactly (along those environmental lines) is being taught in schools that would be so controversial. the key word being "taught" not exposed to by peers. i still can't imagine what it would be....since as i stated before, i live in a very environmentally concious area and my kiddos are in a charter school, but i haven't seen anything come home that would be controversial....nope, let me correct that, i had one teacher push her 13 yo female students to get the gardisil vaccine. but i have never had any teacher promote vegetarianism or anything really other than recycling. i really am just trying to understand
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/5/2008 10:19:41 PM
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zamdad
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I can see that teaching methods, like teachers, are going to vary from place to place. The teacher who gave the assignment to my son is a good teacher, but one of those who tends to push his own agenda onto the kids. He is very much an environmentalist and espouses some socialist ideas. He likes to question kids about their faith. He has caused some turmoil as several kids have been very upset after being chalenged by him. While I have my misgivings about him, I'm not opposed to his chalenging kids about their faith as he causes them to have to defend why they believe what they do, not just claim Christ because their parents do.
Loking back to my own schooling, back in the 1970's while in Jr. High (before it became middle school), I had a teacher who espoused a feminist agenda as well as animal rights. When I was inthe 8th grade she offered an elective class on wildlife. While I learned a lot about tracking animals and getting casts of their tracks and such, she explicitly taught tha hunting and trapping were wrong and overtly encouraged us to fight against the fur trade. At the same time, I had been given a subscription to Ranger Rick magazine by a relative. The Alaska pipeline was about to go under construction. Ranger Rick as well as my teacher told me that I needed to oppose the pipeline because it was going to interfere with wildlife. Moose and caribou were not going to be able to to cross from one side of the pipeline to the other, rivers were going to be damaged, etc. After high school I moved to Alaska. Once in Alaska Ibegan to see the fur industry from another perspective and I've ridden snowmachine (snowmobile for those in the lower 48) under the pipeline as well as over the top of it where it goes underground. I've seen herds of caribou cross under it as well as giant moose go underneath.
I think much of the eco movement has been brought on by the urbanization of civilization. As we have moved to cities and suburbs, we have become detached from nature. There is a strong desire to want to save "pristine" areas so that urbanite can have someplace to go and escape suburbia. Yet, our national parks and recreation areas are now nothing more than an extension of suburbia as they are filled with gift shops, restaurants, and all the comforts of home. Yet, they are labled as wilderness. Those who desperately desire to save the wilderness, generally, wouldn't know how to survive in it if they really had to.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: kids responsible for the world - good or bad? - 8/12/2008 1:47:03 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mommyplus3
okay, so i get your point - even though i strongly disagree....but i must ask... exactly what is being said in schools that is being considered brainwashing (hwever remotely) on this subject? maybe that would make it more clear for me...just wondering
Most of the un-truths being pushed on kids in schools at this time are tied to global warming and corporations supposedly raping the natural world. Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient Truth' is pretty much seen as Gospel truth. As I said before, to question the global warming catastrophy predictions in the movie will bring scorn and ridicule on your head.
Another relevent encounter I had involved the cutting down of trees for paper. In 2006, I was teaching a class in Graphic Arts at a SoCal high school. Part of the class involved running a printing press. Apparently, one of my students teachers had told him that paper companies cut down 1,000 year old trees to make paper. I knew, by personal experience, that this was not true. Paper companies plant and harvest trees for paper every 12 years, after which new trees are planted to be harvested in another twelve years. In 1994, I was teaching in WA state and took a Graphics class on a field trip to a paper company's tree farm. We saw some saplings that had just been planted, with a sign that said they would be ready for processing in 2006. I tried to tell my worried student that the paper he was running through our printing press in '06 was likely one of the saplings I had seen in WA in '04, or at least had been planted somewhere else at the same time. He would not accept it. He had been convinced (brainwashed?) that corporations are raping the pristine natural world, and therefore the paper we were using HAD to have once been an ancient tree from some pristine wilderness.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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