Masturbation - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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Fritzpw_Admin -> Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/11/2005 9:46:21 AM)

This topic is a recurrent issue. As a result we have created ONE thread in order to consolidate the topic.

Please do not start new threads on this topic.

Thanks!



jf12 -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/27/2005 7:13:44 PM)

Well, this is my two cents. Masterbation can be divided into 2 groups: Lustful masterbation, and masterbation without lust, which IS possible, at least for me. Since lustful masterbation has lust, then it is obviously a sin. Lustless masterbation is a bit more trickier. Some say it defiles and makes unpure of the body, and not something that Jesus would like us to be doing. Others say that since there is no mention of it in the bible it is not a sin, among other arguaments. For me, even if I did masterbate without lust, I still feel a bit iffy, and I do not know why. It could be Gods way of telling me not to do it, or it could not be.

That's my say.



NewChristian1 -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/27/2005 8:25:00 PM)

I like to make sure that everything I do, I would do in front of Jesus, in a physical sense. Now, that does nto include masturbation. Obviously I would not want to be masturbating in front of Jesus. Although He is watching from above, He is not here physically. If I saw Jesus physically when I come to physically pleasure myself (with or without lust) then I would definately stop.

So, would that be a sin or not? I like to think that anything you would not do with Jesus present physically would be a sin. But I am unsure about the issue of masturbation.

quote:

Well, this is my two cents. Masterbation can be divided into 2 groups: Lustful masterbation, and masterbation without lust

That is true. There can be masturbation without lust, and I am one that does, on occasion, masturbate without lustful thoughts. I have been in a group with my church that dealt with this very issue, and every guy there seemed to have been in agreement that you can masturbate without lustful thoughts. Our pastures agree that it is not a sin to masturbate, it is only the thoughts.

God bless.



wolfvanzandt -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/29/2005 6:15:32 PM)

The problem with these consolidated threads is that it inhibits people reading what has gone before and much repetition is required.

NewChristin, that has been brought up. Would you feel comfortable urinating or defecating in front of the Lord? I would place masturbation in the calss of such private functions.



RecusantPoet -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/30/2005 3:05:11 AM)

Oh please..[8|]



wolfvanzandt -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/30/2005 5:52:30 PM)

Guitarman, the problem with that thread is that I don't know which thread you're reacting to and, if you're reacting to my last post, I have no idea what you find so rediculous about it.

Perhaps instead of simply emoting, you could be a little more clear about what you are thinking.



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wolfvanzandt -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/2/2005 6:11:45 PM)

quote:

But, is it ever ok to remain bound to an negative addiction of any kind, even when there is no physical concequenes?


It's a pretty far stretch to call masturbation an addiction when it's required at a frequency around 25 times a month to prevent prostate cancer. It's simply a health maintenance procedure.

quote:

Masterbation may be good, but is it the best God has for us?


It actually seems to be what God provided for us to maintain our health in several categories (if you read the research in the original threads, you will see that it reduces problems in several areas). It seems to be the preventative maintenance of choice for some problems so, yes, I figure it is the best God has for us for those parts of our life that requires such maintenance.

quote:

Everytime that I M-d since I've been porn free, it's the only thing that keeps bringing all that trash back up in my mind. I don't want to talk to anyone afterwards for several days. I'm tired of cleaning up after myself, and the time I waste.


That's sorta like Pavlov's dogs. You've associated a good thing (masturbation) with a bad thing (pornography) so that when one occurs, the other comes to mind. THat's certainly a problem with pornography - it even dirties up good things - it pervades your life.



grayfriar -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/3/2005 2:05:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhatLoveIs
we don't believe smokers go to hell for lighting up.


WhatLoveIs...
No smoking don't send you to hell...just makes you smell like you've been there!

[X(].

Gray~



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Guy_On_Fire_For_God -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/3/2005 11:59:31 PM)

I can't get over the fact that people think that masturbation is possible without lust period. I just don't believe it. I've been there. I've masturbated without thinking about things in my head, sure, but just because I didn't think about things in my head while I was doing it, did that mean I wasn't lusting? What about leading up to it? What did I fill my head with all day long? The fact of the matter is, and every guy knows this, you need to be aroused to masturbate. So how do you get aroused then? Without lust period? I disagree. There had to be something that happened during the day that drives a person to masturbate later.
I see this in my own life now. I don't lust during the day. I bounce my eyes, I change my thoughts, I meditate and ponder Scripture. I don't even THINK about masturbation and being aroused, and I'm not. Do I still notice beautiful women? Yes. However I have no urge to be aroused and am not aroused, therefore I have no urge to masturbate.
Get it? Sexual urge lead to arousal leads to masturbation. It all starts somewhere, it just doesn't hit you like a bolt of lightning!



TimCha7 -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/4/2005 2:12:32 AM)

hi,

I'm a new member here, just signed up. I saw this thread here that deals with an issue that bothers me quite a lot. Everytime I struggle with it and I fall into the desire to do it; the next day I become very depressed for several hours afterwards. I am stuck on the issue of the right and wrong of the issue; all I know recently Holy spirit is been dealing with me about
surrendering myself to Jesus more and put everything under the blood.

Thanks,
Tim



wolfvanzandt -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/4/2005 5:56:38 PM)

quote:

As for preventing cancer, even prostate cancer - eating brockley, eating papayas, adding fiber to your diet, avoiding refined sugar, avoiding hydronated fats, and avoiding trans fats will decrease one's chance for cancer, thousands of times more than masturbation 28 times a month.

Cancer is directly linked to what we eat, and the chemicals in our enviroment (smoking, pollution, cleaning chemicals, etc).


In this case, it seems to be some kind of irritant in seminal fluid that needs to be flushed out. But what you said is sorta like saying that eating right keeps you from having cancer so you should be able to smoke without risk of lung cancer if you eat right. And where in the world did you get "thousands of times more than masturbation."?

quote:

As for cleaning out one's prostate - I'm sure there's some multivitamins, minerals, and herbal suppliments that will keep the prostate more heathly and stable, than what masturbation affords.


I'm in the health profession and I'm not at all sure of that - I'm really wondering how you can be.

quote:

You can't bypass diet, exercise, and a healthy enviroment- and only masturbate in order to stay cancer free.


That's certainly true.

quote:

And, Remember to get your prostate checked. 80-90% of prostate cancers can be cured - if caught early enough. Regular prostate examinations are the number 1 preventative measure recomended by doctors.


I'd say that's number 2. Number 1 is a right lifestyle. But I could see doctors saying that the check up is number 1. They get paid for it.

quote:

I can't get over the fact that people think that masturbation is possible without lust period.


Well, I guess it's easier to believe it when you experience it. Of course, most people's assuption is that others are like them, so I can see why you might think that.

quote:

The fact of the matter is, and every guy knows this, you need to be aroused to masturbate.


Uh, here's a guy that doesn't know that. The way that masturbation works is that tactile stimulation provides the arousal. Normal functioning people can work just fine with just the tactile stimulation.

quote:

Get it? Sexual urge lead to arousal leads to masturbation. It all starts somewhere, it just doesn't hit you like a bolt of lightning!


Hmmmmm....you didn't read the older threads, did you. That's the problem with starting a new "consolidated thread" with something like this. The older, more complete thread disappears and you have to start all over again.



wolfvanzandt -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/4/2005 6:03:34 PM)

Frankly, I could care less if other people masturbate or not. It's not my issue. What conserns me is the fact that there is nothing in the Bible against it. There is not evidence of any harmful effects except those related to guilt (and why should a Christian feel guilty about something God doesn't prohibit?). There is quite a lot of evidence that it is needed to maintain good health. In short, there is nothing wrong with it and everything good about it (as far as all evidence - Biblical, medical, etc.) . And there are still people trying to persuade others that it's wrong for them (the others) to be doing it. That screams legalism to high heaven.

So you folks convince 10 men that masturbation is wrong to the point that they stop doing it. Statistically, 3 of them will develop prostate cancer. One will probably die. Is your opinions that important?

As I said, I really don't care about the masturbation - the legalism, though - that bothers me.



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wolfvanzandt -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/8/2005 6:29:49 PM)

quote:

It seems that Faith and doubt is the center of this conversation. Faith towards masturbation vs. Doubt towards masturbation.


Actually, to me, it has very little to do with masturbation at all. There is no reason for evryone to discipline themselves as concerning masturbation. I am very disciplined in many areas of my life. Lack of discipline as regards masturbation doesn't imply lack of discipline.

There's a topic elsewhere on these forums concerning Yoga. Yoga is a discipline and, where some people think it's great, some think it's demonic. But it's most certainly discipline. Do you think everyone should practice Yoga? Just saying a person is living a disciplined life doesn't mean that their living a good life or even a Christian life.

If an individual says that they don't masturbate and why they don't - that's a good thing. We're hear to exchange ideas.

But when people start saying things like "You should not masturbate," or "People should not masturbate," or even "It's a sin to masturbate," without providing some very good basis for that opinion, then it becomes legalistic. If God hasn't prohibited it - no Christian should.

You are very right in considering nutrition as a major factor in good health - but it's not the only factor. the whole person is involved in their health. I'm a health professional (area: rehabilitation) and have been exposed to quite a lot of the nutrition information as well as the traditional and alternative medicines. It's part of my job to keep up with them and, although I'm glad you put up the information you did because people ned to know it - it's not news.

If you research cancer some more you'll find that there's two major "causes" of cancer - chronic inflamation and the ability to repare the results of tissue damage (which includes tissue damaged by inflammation and the body's reactions to that damage such as tumors). Good nutrition helps build and maintain the processes in the body that repair tissue and eliminates abnormal processes - but if you keep tissue irritated - regardless of how strong your immune system is - you increases the chance of things like cancer developing. The latest theory of why masturbation greatly reduces the risk of prostate cancer is that residue from semenal fluid is not meant to hang around in the prostate and, when it does, it irritaes the tissues in the prostate. Sperm needs a basic environment to live and the womb is a slightly acidic environment so semen tends to be alkaline in order to nutralize the acid in the womb. That alkalinity may be what irritaes the prostate glands or it may be some other component in semen.

To prevent prostate cancer you have to both keep the immune system strong to forestall tumors and you need to avooid irritating the tissues in the prostate gland to prevent them. A prudent man will do both.



SuperFork -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/8/2005 6:37:24 PM)

um this is really simple. it is indeed a sin just like anything else.

God looks at the heart.

if you look at a women with lust you are an adulturer.

God says keep sex inside marriage. If you masturbate and lust, fantazise, or whatever you want to call it, whether the girl exsists or not...you ARE

Having sex outside of marriage.



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DaveW -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/9/2005 10:02:05 AM)

Torture, child abuse and herion?

All drugs (especially opiates) that are used to "get high" would be prohibited under the prohibition on drunkenness. There is nowhere it limits it to alcohol. Wine and strong drink are used as examples as alcohol was the drug of choice/availability.

What is called for biblically for child dicipline can also be looked on as child abuse today - "spare the rod and spoil the child." Hebrews says God scourges every son he receives, and scourges tore the flesh off right down to the bones.

As to torture, scourging sounds like it to me. In many places (esp Proverbs) it talks about beating slaves and fools. "Many blows" = beating.



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DaveW -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/9/2005 3:13:47 PM)

quote:

To me - I see masturbation as being under the word "sexual immorality." And, when I read this in Ephesians: "This is the will of God... that you abstain from sexual immorality..."

- Then this is how I see it: "This is the will of God ... that you abstain from (masturbation)..."

I can totally understand that. However, all those words you list, with pornia being the most all-encompassing, all look to me like couple sex, not solo. That is why I do not believe M should be included in those terms. Fantasizing seems to take it out of the realm of purely a solo act, and thereby makes it a sinful act. However, that is still questionable.

If you are not convinced in your own mind that it is OK, then it cannot be done in faith and what ever is not in faith Paul calls sin.

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that M was God's "way of escape" for the singles to have a needed sexual release with out sinning. By casting such serious doubt on the activity, satan has rendered it sinful as well and by raising the age of marriage he has given to our believing young men and women a decade or more of frustration; with some leaving the faith over it, others committing suicide (see "A Gift for All Ages" by Penner) and most falling into fornication with someone. Of course some shut down and then find it nigh impossible to start back up again after marriage.



CatholicCritter -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/9/2005 4:12:04 PM)

quote:

Smoking causes more physical harm, but we don't believe smokers go to hell for lighting up. Scientist have proven that nicotine is an addictive agent. And, most people won't disagree that it's wrong to keep smoking, and suffer the effects (heart attack, emphacima, cancer, etc).


Knowing what we know about cigarettes and their damage, it becomes a sin against the 5th commandment to do it, IMO. Deliberate actions which harm our bodies is a sin, plain and simple so smoking is not really comparable to masturbation in this sense.


quote:

But, is it ever ok to remain bound to an negative addiction of any kind, even when there is no physical concequenes?


No, it is not. Addiction represents idolatry. We worship something other than God by depending physically, emotionally, and psychologically on it and not on God.


quote:

Masterbation may be good, but is it the best God has for us?


This seems to be an assumption taken up by most here but it is wrong. To be good, it must be of God. Self-gratification and gratuitous pleasure is not of God and never has been. Paul speaks of subduing his body daily to deal with those thorns of the flesh, providing the model for us.


quote:

Everytime that I M-d since I've been porn free, it's the only thing that keeps bringing all that trash back up in my mind. I don't want to talk to anyone afterwards for several days.


That's because God's law is written in our hearts. We know that masturbation does not feel 'right' after the deed and there's a reason for that--God has told us so. Sex is the giving of ourselves to another. We can't give ourselves to ourselves and so we see the problem. People would rather justify this action than exert self-control--considered a virtue since the beginning.


quote:

It's simply a health maintenance procedure.


So if science suddenly stated that having an abortion was actually healthy for the mom, your train of thought would deem it morally good? See, there are no victimless sins. Just because you can't see the effect that masturbation has on others does not mean it does not exist. But most of all, it effects God and shouldn't that be the biggest reason not to do it?


quote:

Each person walks with God in a little different way.


Yes, the only way to justify this act is to push moral relativism. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Truth does not change. If it did, abortion would be objectively good today since we now have the license to perform the act in a more scientifically sound manner.


quote:

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that M was God's "way of escape" for the singles to have a needed sexual release with out sinning.


That's like saying, 'If God didn't want us to masturbate, he'd have given us shorter arms!'. The logic is absurd. God does not provide 'escapes'. Rather, he takes up His Cross and dies a brutal death. He expects the same of us--take up your cross daily and follow Him. Does this sound like an avenue of escape to you? The reason people have left the faith, committed suicide, et al, is because they chose to be their own moral guide. The Church has taught for 2000 years that this act is sinful at its core. The guilt that pushes people to leave, commit suicide, etc. comes from the act itself, not from being told that it's sinful.

Don't buy into the 'if it feels good, then do it' lies that the world tells you. Use Paul as a model--subdue yourselves and work out your salvation in fear and trembling. Self giving love is what rules the day, not self love and the slippery slope of moral relativism.



DaveW -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/9/2005 4:50:44 PM)

quote:

The logic is absurd. God does not provide 'escapes'.

That is unscriptural. Period.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (NASB) No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.



CatholicCritter -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (8/9/2005 4:55:08 PM)

boy, talk about butchering a bible verse. it's talking about TEMPTATION. and as such, God gives us a way of escape from the temptation of the sin. scripture, prayer, and grace are ways of escape in that they make us strong enough to not commit the sin. the sin is masturbation and God ALWAYS gives us a way of escape from the temptation of the sin. Escape is NEVER allowing the sin to occur, not even in your version of the Bible.



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