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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 11:09:16 AM
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um_lilly
Posts: 33
Joined: 6/20/2007
From: The Carolinas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daisies4u
Is the world just off-kilter or something? Why are so many unmarried women getting pregnant? It almost seems like this is the norm. You can hardly find a family that has not been touched by this. I just don't understand it...with so much information out there...how can young women be ignorant to the facts about getting pregnant? Not to mention the morals of it.
And when it happens in your family, what do you do? Is it selfish to expect an apology for the embarassement that has been brought on your family?
I think the only one they owe an apology to is god. He is the creator and the judge and jury.
Pre-marital sex is a sin. People need to ask for forgiveness of that. Since no birth control is 100 % fool proof, women need to always use a back up method if they decide to do this. Let me rephrase that - they should not be having premarital sex..period but if they do, and it is their choice, they should want to protect themselves from more than just pregnancy.
This has happened in my family more than one occassion. Most have a few babies before getting married, and some don't get married at all. It's not like we don't try to talk to them about it but ultimately, it's their choice. They have to answer to god for their sins.
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 12:54:33 PM
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amannoftruth
Posts: 622
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
I am also saying that this girl sinned against God and can repent of that sin without groveling to her family, or her church, for that matter.
Like I said, it probably makes a difference if it is a one-time sin that one has repented from, or an ongoing sinful lifestyle, but Christians (at least ones who follow biblical teaching) ARE accountable to the Body of believers for their actions. That doesn't play well in today's "Judge not!" environment, but that's just the way it is.
I once witnessed a young woman who got up in front of one of our local churches and confessed a sin she had committed. I don't know what the sin was, but it was something that apparently had been in the newspaper, so it was probably already known to many in the church. Just think how much less sin there would be in the Body if we had to publicly confess our sins before the church!
_____________________________
"God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ps 7
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 12:59:18 PM
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amannoftruth
Posts: 622
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From: Flyover country
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quote:
I think the only one they owe an apology to is god.
I don't agree. God has given the Church authority over believers. And when a professed Christian girl gets pregnant out of wedlock, it DOES affect the whole Body. Unsaved people look at things like that and it just gives them another reason to label us a bunch of hypocrites.
I realize we all sin. But the point is that our sin is not always just a private matter between us and God. Sin in a church--even hidden sin--is destructive.
_____________________________
"God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ps 7
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 1:22:47 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6284
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quote:
I don't see where the OP fits your description (below). I didn't see anything in her post to indicate that she grants more "leeway" to others who sin by fornication. It is just that she is not addressing those in this particular thread.
Actually, I am seeing it in the fact that she singles out only the pregnant girls. Never mind the men--who will never have a big belly sticking out proclaiming "I had sex!", never mind the girls who don't get pregnant or who abort, she is specifically ranting about pregnant girls and the embarassment their families suffer. She even implies they are too dumb to know how babies are made, and she implies that the pregnancy itself is immoral. Later on she implies that this girl must not be a christian since she sinned, which is unreasonable. So according to the OP, the baby is the problem, the baby is the embarassment, the girl ought to be punished for having a baby, ought to apologize for having a baby. It's all nuts.
The truth is, that these babies are blessings God gives us in spite of our sins. A baby is not an embarassment. A baby is not a sin. And a girl should not be made to feel the way the OP is wanting this girl to feel just because she is having one. The OP should be ashamed at herself, IMO.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 1:25:31 PM
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amannoftruth
Posts: 622
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
I don't see where the OP fits your description (below). I didn't see anything in her post to indicate that she grants more "leeway" to others who sin by fornication. It is just that she is not addressing those in this particular thread.
Actually, I am seeing it in the fact that she singles out only the pregnant girls. Never mind the men--who will never have a big belly sticking out proclaiming "I had sex!", never mind the girls who don't get pregnant or who abort, she is specifically ranting about pregnant girls and the embarassment their families suffer. She even implies they are too dumb to know how babies are made, and she implies that the pregnancy itself is immoral. Later on she implies that this girl must not be a christian since she sinned, which is unreasonable. So according to the OP, the baby is the problem, the baby is the embarassment, the girl ought to be punished for having a baby, ought to apologize for having a baby. It's all nuts.
The truth is, that these babies are blessings God gives us in spite of our sins. A baby is not an embarassment. A baby is not a sin. And a girl should not be made to feel the way the OP is wanting this girl to feel just because she is having one. The OP should be ashamed at herself, IMO.
We are all human, and I think it is a normal human response from a family who has been seeking to be salt and light to the world, and perhaps now feel their Christian witness has been diminished.
_____________________________
"God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ps 7
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 3:08:31 PM
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daisies4u
Posts: 188
Joined: 10/16/2006
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quote:
Then you have never met the OP I find her post ill-founded and self-centered. Puh-leeze, she wants remorse for embarassing the family? Perhaps her family ought to be repenting of the failure they had raising this niece who obviously had to seek acceptance from someone else. Perhaps the family should be embarassed!
I am not saying that I was not responsible for my own actions. I AM saying that good parenting would have made the difference. I am also saying that this girl sinned against God and can repent of that sin without groveling to her family, or her church, for that matter. Also, being angry that she isn't repenting in the way the OP wants her to is ridiculous.
Well, I am not quite sure how to respond to that, but I will try.
I could not love my niece any more if she were my own child. And I will love this baby the same way. I also agree completely with the statement that we failed her. We did! Even though, I talked to her until I was blue in the face about NOT getting pregnant. She was the last female in our family to "do things in the right order". We put alot on her shoulders. She promised me she was not having sex. She does have issues with her mother. I agree that good parenting may have made a difference, but how can I control that? I am not her mother. Besides that is an EXCUSE! We all have a CHOICE! I have finally come to realize that I am not to blame for her getting pregnant. I did everything I could to steer her in the right direction.
But here is the thing, when are we (Christians gonna stand up for what is right? I know that we all sin. But there is a difference between sinning and living a lifestyle of sin. I may stump my toe and say something ugly. I will ask for forgiviness and move on with my life. But if I am knowingly living a life that goes against God's word, then I think it is time for someone to stand up and say that it is wrong.
The embarrasement is what I am really struggling with right now. Like it or not, the things that our families do affect us. My family is very involved in our church. Eveyone knows us and will know that this has happened AGAIN in our family. It is fair? No. Should they talk about us? No. But they will. Her actions WILL affect my family. My older son is her best friend. They lead in youth together. People are looking at him differently. Everyone knows how people talk. We will ignore it and we will get through it. And I will love my niece as much tomorrow and I did yesterday.
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 3:27:15 PM
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roboteer
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There are two things in this thread about the Church and the pregnant woman.
- One is the idea that the Church has authority over us, so should deal with us when we commit a serious sin (which I realise could include some sort of punishment - but could also mean providing appropriate support).
- The other is that people within the church gossip and judge the individual and her family.
We should not act like the second bullet - full stop - we should leave things to the elders and in fact be supportive in what will be a difficult situation for the family. One of the issues of the situation is becoming public in the first bullet is that people start acting as in the second bullet.
I must admit re the first point, I am not sure. In life generally I tend to take the view that no-one else tells me what to do. They can suggest, we can discuss, I can submit to their leadership for a specific purpose, but no-one actually has the authority to tell.
In reality I support the elders of my church in leading the church - but outside specific church activities they don't attempt to control my life in any way - they don't know a great deal other than what I happen to have shared with them.
I'm no sure how much authority they have over me - nor am I sure how much they should have. I must admit that on a day to day basis I do not really see myself as accountable to them for what I do - and they don't look at things like that too. They are generally supportive of me though.
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 3:42:36 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7784
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
We should not act like the second bullet - full stop - we should leave things to the elders and in fact be supportive in what will be a difficult situation for the family. One of the issues of the situation is becoming public in the first bullet is that people start acting as in the second bullet.
I must admit re the first point, I am not sure. In life generally I tend to take the view that no-one else tells me what to do. They can suggest, we can discuss, I can submit to their leadership for a specific purpose, but no-one actually has the authority to tell.
In reality I support the elders of my church in leading the church - but outside specific church activities they don't attempt to control my life in any way - they don't know a great deal other than what I happen to have shared with them.
I'm no sure how much authority they have over me - nor am I sure how much they should have. I must admit that on a day to day basis I do not really see myself as accountable to them for what I do - and they don't look at things like that too. They are generally supportive of me though.
If one is part of a local body of Christ, a church that is running in proper order, then Biblically the Church has the resposibility to deal with those in that body who continue in sin, in the manner described in the New Testament, whatever our individual feelings may be. This is true whether one sins 'at church' or outside of the activities of the church, because the church isn't a product of buildings or activities. If one doesn't care for this, no one can make one stay, and leaving is always an option. But that is the Biblical standard.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 3:59:23 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4273
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daisies4u
I realize that I am probably just having a pity party here, but I want to see some remorse, better still, I want other to be able to see it. Embarrasement??? Yes, I am embarrased. But if I truly thought that she had made her peace with God, I could let it go. As it is, I am having a very difficult time with it.
Well, how about defining what you expect to see? or hear? or ??? and tell her what outward signs you need to see in order to for you to let it go. Sorry for all the you's in that sentence, but that's how it appears from what you posted.
Then let her know your expectations and have a discussion about that.
The embarrassment you describe sounds like "fear of man" rather than fear of God. Not that fear of man isn't powerful to our nature and can certainly motivate us, but fearing God in love and compassion while restoring someone to God is probably more important.
As for the attitude of single parenthood in our culture - I would agree that it is becoming normalized and the final attack on marriage.
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 4:14:04 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4273
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daisies4u
But here is the thing, when are we (Christians gonna stand up for what is right? I know that we all sin. But there is a difference between sinning and living a lifestyle of sin. I may stump my toe and say something ugly. I will ask for forgiviness and move on with my life. But if I am knowingly living a life that goes against God's word, then I think it is time for someone to stand up and say that it is wrong.
Unfortunately, many sins have outward consequences (good and/or bad) and in the case of your niece, there is a child that is not going away. In order for you to prepare for this child, the problem of your embarrassment needs to be addressed or there could be even more consequences that will directly affect this child as they grow up in your church. Attitudes of embarrassment are not easily hidden and children are prone to questions.
This child is the result of an act, not a lifestyle from what you said. So, the presence of a baby is a potential reminder for you of your niece's sin and that reminder is not a lifestyle.
As for standing up as Christians...we all have to do that every day of our life. We repent daily of our sins and then by nightfall, we're sinning again. I just don't get that your niece is living the life of a fornicator, jumping into bed with every boy she meets.
Is she still in leadership in ministry would be my only real question. IMO, she should be counseled/discipled or at the very least sit down with the youth and discuss the issue of premarital sex with them froma biblical standpoint.
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 5:03:35 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
I don't mean just knowing right from wrong, I mean being raised in such a way that they have no emotional need to have sex before marriage.
Emotional need? Is that the latest PC excuse for the sin of fornication?
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 5:21:33 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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From: WA
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quote:
Emotional need? Is that the latest PC excuse for the sin of fornication?
RC, it's pretty well accepted that if a girl doesn't feel she has her parents' unconditional love, and does not have a good relationship with her father, that she is more vulnerable to this particular sin. As I said, I don't blame my parents for my sin, and I take full responsibility for it, but I don't think it would have happened if they'd been better parents.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 5:24:30 PM
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amannoftruth
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Pre-marital sex has become so normalized and de-stigmatized and accepted, that many girls don't really believe it is that wrong. There are even a lot of parents who have resigned themselves to the fact that their teens are going to have sex, and so they provide them with contraceptives.
_____________________________
"God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ps 7
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 5:32:40 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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It's more than that, though. I was firmly committed to abstinence. I did NOT learn this from my parents, trust me  However, as I said before, I rationalized it by telling myself that we were getting married anyway, but mostly, I let him do what he wanted with me because I thought I needed his love. Why would I think that? Because he was the only person giving me any kind of love!
In addition to that-and I talk to my dad about this now, especially since my youngest sister is only 12-NO ONE told me that sex doesn't start when you take your clothes off but much, much sooner. Also, no one provided me with any kind of tools to use to remain abstinent.
So, yes, premarital sex was my own sin, but it was truly a failure of my entire family, and it could have been prevented by them.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 5:49:35 PM
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amannoftruth
Posts: 622
Joined: 11/27/2006
From: Flyover country
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quote:
I rationalized it by telling myself that we were getting married anyway, but mostly, I let him do what he wanted with me because I thought I needed his love. Why would I think that? Because he was the only person giving me any kind of love!
I appreciate your insight. I submit, however, that what you were getting from him was not love. But I do understand how women equate sex with love. Sex should be an expression of love, but for men it often is just a physical act.
_____________________________
"God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ps 7
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 6:06:07 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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From: WA
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You misunderstand me. I did not equate sex with love. I succumbed to the sexual advances of someone that I thought loved me, because I did not have real love elsewhere (or the assurance of it).
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 6:13:54 PM
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amannoftruth
Posts: 622
Joined: 11/27/2006
From: Flyover country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
You misunderstand me. I did not equate sex with love. I succumbed to the sexual advances of someone that I thought loved me, because I did not have real love elsewhere (or the assurance of it).
That's kinda what I meant. A lot women think that if a man has sex with them, he must love them.
_____________________________
"God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ps 7
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 6:16:37 PM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6284
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From: WA
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You still have it backwards.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 6:24:09 PM
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amannoftruth
Posts: 622
Joined: 11/27/2006
From: Flyover country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
You still have it backwards.
You're right. I said it wrong. I know what you mean though. And I know how women often get into relationships for the wrong reason, trying to find the love they didn't get from their father.
_____________________________
"God is a just judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ps 7
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RE: Single and Pregnant - 10/17/2007 6:33:02 PM
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bricole77
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/28/2006
From: Grand Haven, MI
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Jenny-Fair,
Thank you for your story. God has used your testimony to turn you into a person of compassion and mercy. You know first-hand what its like to be unwed and pregnant so you show mercy and love to those who do. I believe God can use our sins and our mistakes to produce perseverance, copmpassion, mercy among a list of other things. I have an idea, maybe the op should change the title of this thread to "Mercy and Compassion: Why AREN'T these things a trend?"
_____________________________
I had to kiss alot of frogs to find my prince!
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I find her post ill-founded and self-centered. Puh-leeze, she wants remorse for embarassing the family? Perhaps her family ought to be repenting of the failure they had raising this niece who obviously had to seek acceptance from someone else. Perhaps the family should be embarassed! 
Also, I say it again, perhaps they have reason to be embarassed...it is likely that in some way, this girl's sin IS the family's failure. Possibly not, but in my experience, girls don't be have this way who have been brought up right. I don't mean just knowing right from wrong, I mean being raised in such a way that they have no emotional need to have sex before marriage.
She is now 4 and they still haven't figured out where she will attend Kindergarten because they live in different cities and share custody 50/50.