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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/20/2008 1:15:43 AM
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groovymovieman
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We can say things like "that was then and this is now" and times change. But there is no denying that the early church walked in a passion and authority that we simply don't see in the Western church today. I mean, the early church was persecuted and yet it continued to take ground, while the Western church today not only can't seem to take ground, it is losing ground every day. And we're not even being persecuted! There is no denying that the early believer was a very different breed of Christian.
I think we have drifted so far from what it means to be a follower of Christ that we really don't even know what that looks like anymore. We seem to grade on a curve. We look at the most spiritual person in the room (the pastor perhaps?) and think that if we're measuring up to him then we're good enough. Yet that role is still a long shot from the level of the Spirit the early Christians walked in. As author Ron Schwartz put it, Christians today are domesticated. They’re content to be placed in stalls and have lost their God given wild instincts to run with the wind which ever way it blows. In fact, like domesticated animals, they can’t even survive in the wild anymore. Pastors are farmers and the Christians are their cattle. The more cattle (Christians) they have, the more successful their farm (church). The modern day Christian cannot survive without an institution to be a part of or a pastor to feed them. They have lost the ability to get what they need from God for themselves. They don’t know how to be led by the Spirit. They are convinced that it is Biblical to have a man as their head and have abandoned the God given natural order of things.
This is nothing like the early believers who knew how to hear God for themselves and had only one Head over them and looked only to Him. Leadership was marked by humility. Something that modern day leaders don’t have. If they did, they would see that Jesus words about not wearing titles and not taking authority over others really does make sense. But as it is, they can’t even function without a title and some form of recognition. They have taken a position above the saints rather than simply being brethren as Jesus commanded. In fact, to even think of themselves as just being one of the brethren with no distinction or recognition is painful for them.
I know these things are hard and few can swallow them. But you can’t fix a broken bone by speaking gently to it. It must go through the painful process of resetting. So it is with the church. When we have been believing lies for centuries, we aren’t going to get back to the truth by tickling ears. Following Christ is a narrow road. And embracing the status quo will get you nowhere. We have been doing the same thing over and over again for years and expecting different results, which is the definition of insanity. While every follower of Christ knows deep within them that this is not God’s best, many have become so domesticated that the thought of leaving the status quo terrifies them.
< Message edited by groovymovieman -- 3/20/2008 1:25:28 AM >
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/21/2008 3:12:01 PM
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HeadHome
Posts: 71
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letsreason
I had read several of the post on this site as well as other Christian forums and it is difficult to see how the church justifies the corporate functionality of the "Modern Church".
From the CEO (Senior Pastor) to the Janitor (Deacons) my experience has been in 3 church plants and serving at a large non denominational church that this model is not Biblical and doesn't work.
It can produce large numbers of attendees but is not designed for the main calling we all have of making disciples.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Lets Reason
www.LetsReasonTogether.com
...And I'm as guilty as anyone. Am I out proclaiming the Gospel on this Good Friday? 
No, I'm online, in my comfortable home, with plenty of food ready for the family Easter dinner on Sunday...Now, it's good to be with my family, and to remind all of us why we remember Good Friday, but still...
Anyway, to answer your question: IMO, the Acts 2 church has been buried under my country's (America's) material prosperity, and the nearly world-wide export thereof. Greed and the Gospel just don't mix, y'know? Didn't Jesus say, "You cannot serve God and mammon (Matt. 5:24)."?
Plus, making disciples of Jesus takes time. Am I willing to invest that time in others? Besides my family? Didn't Jesus say, "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? (Matt. 5:44)"
However...
In a church, "Let all things be done decently and in order (1 Cor. 14:40)." Corporate functionality is not a bad thing, unless it is misused in such a way as to quench the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 5:19).
By and large, I agree with you, Lets Reason. It's easy to see error in such church formats, and tough to find an authentic church using that format, IMO. Peace.
_____________________________
Here comes the King,
All bow down;
All bow down.
- "All Bow Down," Chris Tomlin
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/21/2008 3:23:48 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1178
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
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Groovy, I agree with this:
quote:
While every follower of Christ knows deep within them that this is not God’s best, many have become so domesticated that the thought of leaving the status quo terrifies them.
I think many believers who have been domesticated into "parishoners" know that this model is wrong, or at the very least flawwed. However, it is terrifying, because the Acts 2 model is SO much more involved! If we followed that model, we'd actually produce believers who were *gasp* equipped! That would turn our comfortable little safe world upside down. True we'd have more of that "power" Jesus Christ promised us, but we'd probably see more persecution, we'd have to rely on God more, it would be a different era. The way wouldn't be as clear as Sunday morning, midweek, pray, tithes and offerings. And many pastors, elders, and "ministry leaders" would have to reevaluate their roles. But, you know, we could turn the world upside down. Imagine that!
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/21/2008 3:36:23 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4623
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Groovy, I agree with this:
quote:
While every follower of Christ knows deep within them that this is not God’s best, many have become so domesticated that the thought of leaving the status quo terrifies them.
I think many believers who have been domesticated into "parishoners" know that this model is wrong, or at the very least flawwed. However, it is terrifying, because the Acts 2 model is SO much more involved! If we followed that model, we'd actually produce believers who were *gasp* equipped! That would turn our comfortable little safe world upside down. True we'd have more of that "power" Jesus Christ promised us, but we'd probably see more persecution, we'd have to rely on God more, it would be a different era. The way wouldn't be as clear as Sunday morning, midweek, pray, tithes and offerings. And many pastors, elders, and "ministry leaders" would have to reevaluate their roles. But, you know, we could turn the world upside down. Imagine that!
Dakotasunbeam,
What is it that you see so different between the Church as described in the second chapter of Acts and the Church today? YOu seem to diss meeting on the first day of the week (as did the folks in Acts) (Prayer) (tithes and offerings, very much spoken of in Acts), so please describe what differences do you see?
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/21/2008 3:42:22 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 3708
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Groovy, I agree with this:
quote:
While every follower of Christ knows deep within them that this is not God’s best, many have become so domesticated that the thought of leaving the status quo terrifies them.
I think many believers who have been domesticated into "parishoners" know that this model is wrong, or at the very least flawwed. However, it is terrifying, because the Acts 2 model is SO much more involved! If we followed that model, we'd actually produce believers who were *gasp* equipped! That would turn our comfortable little safe world upside down. True we'd have more of that "power" Jesus Christ promised us, but we'd probably see more persecution, we'd have to rely on God more, it would be a different era. The way wouldn't be as clear as Sunday morning, midweek, pray, tithes and offerings. And many pastors, elders, and "ministry leaders" would have to reevaluate their roles. But, you know, we could turn the world upside down. Imagine that!
Remarkably, you don't see how legalistic the stuck-in-Acts-2-mode is. There has never been any organization of worth that survived, including the Church of the Living God, that never adapted to changing times but remained in its infancy.
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/21/2008 8:27:08 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1317
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: groovymovieman
We can say things like "that was then and this is now" and times change. But there is no denying that the early church walked in a passion and authority that we simply don't see in the Western church today. I mean, the early church was persecuted and yet it continued to take ground, while the Western church today not only can't seem to take ground, it is losing ground every day. And we're not even being persecuted! There is no denying that the early believer was a very different breed of Christian.
I think we have drifted so far from what it means to be a follower of Christ that we really don't even know what that looks like anymore. We seem to grade on a curve. We look at the most spiritual person in the room (the pastor perhaps?) and think that if we're measuring up to him then we're good enough. Yet that role is still a long shot from the level of the Spirit the early Christians walked in. As author Ron Schwartz put it, Christians today are domesticated. They’re content to be placed in stalls and have lost their God given wild instincts to run with the wind which ever way it blows. In fact, like domesticated animals, they can’t even survive in the wild anymore. Pastors are farmers and the Christians are their cattle. The more cattle (Christians) they have, the more successful their farm (church). The modern day Christian cannot survive without an institution to be a part of or a pastor to feed them. They have lost the ability to get what they need from God for themselves. They don’t know how to be led by the Spirit. They are convinced that it is Biblical to have a man as their head and have abandoned the God given natural order of things.
This is nothing like the early believers who knew how to hear God for themselves and had only one Head over them and looked only to Him. Leadership was marked by humility. Something that modern day leaders don’t have. If they did, they would see that Jesus words about not wearing titles and not taking authority over others really does make sense. But as it is, they can’t even function without a title and some form of recognition. They have taken a position above the saints rather than simply being brethren as Jesus commanded. In fact, to even think of themselves as just being one of the brethren with no distinction or recognition is painful for them.
I know these things are hard and few can swallow them. But you can’t fix a broken bone by speaking gently to it. It must go through the painful process of resetting. So it is with the church. When we have been believing lies for centuries, we aren’t going to get back to the truth by tickling ears. Following Christ is a narrow road. And embracing the status quo will get you nowhere. We have been doing the same thing over and over again for years and expecting different results, which is the definition of insanity. While every follower of Christ knows deep within them that this is not God’s best, many have become so domesticated that the thought of leaving the status quo terrifies them.
I disagree. My church walks in Christ's authority and His passion. My pastor is very humble and so are other pastors that I know of. It sound more like folks are upset over the fact that there is a pastor over them who won't let them run amuck and do what they want. Sorry, folks, but even the early church had pastors over them who won't let the members run amuck and do what they wanted.
kim
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/21/2008 9:25:08 PM
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groovymovieman
Posts: 182
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
I disagree. My church walks in Christ's authority and His passion. My pastor is very humble and so are other pastors that I know of. It sound more like folks are upset over the fact that there is a pastor over them who won't let them run amuck and do what they want. Sorry, folks, but even the early church had pastors over them who won't let the members run amuck and do what they wanted.
Won't let them run amuck? Is that what the followers of Christ are yearning to do?
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Jeremiah 31:33
Also in Ezekiel 34 when God prophcies against the bad shepherds he never says he will replace them with good shepherds. Rather He says that He Himself will sheperd His people. And that prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. So, why on Earth has the church returned to the Old Testament system of being ruled over by spiritual men? That is not what Jesus taught.
"They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant." Matthew 23:6-11
But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant," - Matthew 20:25-26
It seems to me that Jesus didn't seem to endorse the idea of having a man over His people to keep them from "running amuck." I think that it was when this practice was introduced to the church the we began to loose our power on the Earth. This is going to sound very harsh, but I think much of the Western church is like what the prophet Jememiah said,
The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end? Jeremaih 5:31
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/22/2008 2:30:31 AM
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funny_girl
Posts: 625
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I'd like to respond to this forum by saying that you're seeing way too much religiosity. A form of godliness yet denying it's power. The church is alive and well. You're hungry and searching for more. Jesus said seek my kingdom first and all these things will be added unto you. You won't be disappointed.
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/22/2008 3:43:24 PM
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groovymovieman
Posts: 182
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
I'd like to respond to this forum by saying that you're seeing way too much religiosity. A form of godliness yet denying it's power. The church is alive and well. You're hungry and searching for more. Jesus said seek my kingdom first and all these things will be added unto you. You won't be disappointed.
Well said.
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/22/2008 7:29:31 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4623
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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You know moviegroovyman, your disdain for the Church as set up in the first century and related to us throught the book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul, John, james etc.; never ceases to amaze me.
Is every Church that seeks to replicate the New Testament Church perfect; no, but they are not all reprobate either.
You see any kind of structure (and I guess the structure given us in the New Testament) as evil.
You see any sort of accountability as evil; even when it replicates the New Testament; as evil.
I am so sorry that you have been hurt in the past, but you really ought to get past that and serve Christ in a Chuch as the New Testament instrusts us to do. I have spent time to review you internet site and what you claim for your ministry; and it is Cynical.whatever.
I and my Church will continue to pray for you.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/22/2008 11:05:34 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 625
Status: offline
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country preacher,
I glanced at the Family Room Media site and didn't see anything cynical about it. It looks like we're on the same page. Religiosity is out, and living passionately, all or nothing for Jesus Christ is IN!
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/23/2008 9:26:23 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4623
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peanut2
country preacher,
I glanced at the Family Room Media site and didn't see anything cynical about it. It looks like we're on the same page. Religiosity is out, and living passionately, all or nothing for Jesus Christ is IN!
Your certainly entitled to your opinion, as is Moviegroovyman; but I would think living as instructed in the New Testament is what should be in.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 3/23/2008 9:33:34 AM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/23/2008 10:44:26 AM
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funny_girl
Posts: 625
Status: offline
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What part aren't we living like the New Testament? Clothes? Homes? I guess you have nothing because you've given all of your possessions to the poor? Is that what you're alluding too? Are you raising the dead, healing the sick, casting out demons? Are you saving the lost, baptizing them and discipling them??? Are you displaying the fruits of the spirit? Walking with the garments of spiritual warfare? Living where angels fear to tread?
What are you talking about??
< Message edited by peanut2 -- 3/24/2008 2:25:06 AM >
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/23/2008 10:52:22 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4623
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peanut2
What are you talking about??
As to this sthread I am talking about the structure of the Church with leadership, accountability, etc.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/23/2008 3:38:00 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 625
Status: offline
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quote:
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."
Jeremiah 31:33
So it's part of our being to know the difference between right and wrong. He's talking about being God over the Jews.
God is the ultimate head. Think about this...Jesus said you're not to call anyone on earth your father, so what are you suppose to call your Dad????
< Message edited by peanut2 -- 3/24/2008 2:12:54 PM >
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/23/2008 3:54:02 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4623
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peanut2
You've forgotten a whole lot of scripture. Go back and read the scripture straight through Acts-Revelation. Jesus is the ultimate head but there are tons of scripture that support leadership. You haven't read the Bible and you're making an off the wall comment like that?
That Structure, leadership, and accountability is plainly laid our for Church is what I am talking about. Christ is the Head without doubt, but He set Apostles, Evangelist, Prophets, Pastors and teacher, Elders, and deacons to keep things on track. And that is the point I am making.
It is not a lone ranger type of thingy, nor is Church to be operated without s higher echalon of leadership that holds it accountble; and as stated Christ is the Head of the whole Church.
I found Crosswalk from a heads up from a Pastor friend of mine. Though I really do not know what that has to do with anything.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/23/2008 8:03:32 PM
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groovymovieman
Posts: 182
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
the movieguy is probably a J.W. or something.
I am not a JW or anything remotly close to it. I'm completely on the opposite end. I'm just a follower of Christ. Cults support stronger leadership and control, not less.
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/23/2008 8:57:38 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 625
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You guys are funny. First impressions aren't always accurate. I really jumped in and started honking without reading all the threads.
Thanks for letting me pitch in!
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/24/2008 1:07:05 PM
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groovymovieman
Posts: 182
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
It is not a lone ranger type of thingy, nor is Church to be operated without s higher echalon of leadership that holds it accountble; and as stated Christ is the Head of the whole Church.
Could you please explain Jesus words in Matthew 20:25-26 & Matthew 23:6-11 to me please. You're talking about a chain of command. That really runs into strong contradiction to the words of Jesus.
"But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant," - Matthew 20:25-26
But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant." Matthew 23:6-11
I think that statement makes Jesus "a lone ranger" too.
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/24/2008 1:16:37 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4623
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: groovymovieman
I think that statement makes Jesus "a lone ranger" too.
I don't think so;
(Joh 5:19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
When Jesus became the head of the Church, he sent the Holy Spirit to establish it (Acts 2), and the Spirit had Luke (Acts), Paul, Peter, John (Epistles), and Judas write how to form, operate, support, and continue the Church.
So if one wants to know how Christ wants His Church ran; then just read it. There is plenty of Structure, accountability, and leadership and not one Lone Ranger.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/24/2008 3:43:42 PM
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groovymovieman
Posts: 182
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
When Jesus became the head of the Church, he sent the Holy Spirit to establish it (Acts 2), and the Spirit had Luke (Acts), Paul, Peter, John (Epistles), and Judas write how to form, operate, support, and continue the Church.
Then why does this "form" that we see today that you say Jesus established contradict His own words in Matthew 23:6-11 and Matthew 20:25-26?
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/24/2008 4:58:11 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1178
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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quote:
RCJames Quote:
Christ is the Head without doubt, but He set Apostles, Evangelist, Prophets, Pastors and teacher, Elders, and deacons to keep things on track.
Hi all, I'd like to address RC James and Dear Jimbo Fletch. First, I RCJames nicely summed up one of the larger reasons why the church has gotten off track. This idea quoted above is part of the reason why our churches are in the shape they are today. Let's see what the Bible actually says about these roles:
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:--Ephesians 4:11-12
These "offices" or "callings" as they are often called are not put in place to "keep things on track" in the sense of we've construed it. Let's read on down to see how this works.
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. --Ephesians 4:13-16.
The purpose of these callings are for the purpose of believers coming to maturity, able to minister and edification, so that we can have oneness of faith, and knowledge of Christ. So that we are NO LONGER children carried about by doctrines at men's will.
We are a body, not an organization or company. The model of church we now employ--so far as I've seen it in the USA, is like a business. We are all to be servants of each other. The gifts do not put people into an elite religious role. It is one where men and women and families get together, share testimonies, read Bibles pray and break bread. You can do this in a church house, farm house or an outhouse. It's not a one way speech from a "pastor." It's about communing with people, interacting, speaking. Not a handshake and God bless you.
Personally, I cannot see how a pastor can read these forums, walk into any church building, attend a couple of programs and not see what is going wrong. How can you not see the disconnect? How can you not see the dried and disasterous fruit coming from the IC (institutionalized church) in the shrinking number of men, the growing divorce rate in the church, the teen/adult promiscuity, homosexuality, hurt, and mundanity? It's like a joke, and the world is laughing at us, while church "leaders" keep singing the same ole tune. It is the Spirit of the Acts 2 church, their adherence to love, sharing, and family. The personal nature of their interactions. The edification, the message.
RC,
You said this:
quote:
What is it that you see so different between the Church as described in the second chapter of Acts and the Church today? It doesn't act like a body nor a family. There is no clergy/laity divide. Everyone one has gifts and the serve them to each other. Those who did more, were demonstrated faithful, etc. were held in honor because they were such--kind of like grandma or grampa in a family. You weighed their words more carefully, they were older and wiser in the faith.
quote:
YOu seem to diss meeting on the first day of the week (as did the folks in Acts) (Prayer)
There is nothing wrong with the first day of the week or the last. Jesus Christ gave them no command in observation of days, feasts, and times. We can meet on any day. I've never been against prayer, RC, dunno where ya got that one?
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(tithes and offerings, very much spoken of in Acts), Are you interpreting the Bible for believers? There is no tithing and offering in the NT, nor an admonition to do so. I only see people giving gifts freely out of a sincere heart as Paul encouraged us. NT Tithes and offerings are a man-made construct to keep the Clergy alive. Kind of like the Catholic church. In the NT giving was for those traveling apostles or anyone who had need.
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so please describe what differences do you see?
Clergy/laity divide.
Paid Spiritual gifts in the body of Christ
False doctrines (tithing/offering)
Lectures
CEO/Business Structure
No intimacy
No Family
No Relationship
Superficial
Fluffy speeches for itching ears
Abhorent fruit
Doctrines
Divorce
Lukewarmness
Routine
A form of godliness but denying the power thereof
doctrine of the nicolatians,
compromise
You know, if you've ever taught anyone anything, you'll know that real learning occurs not from just telling someone something, but from them asking question and getting feedback. If we even followed Jesus Christ's model we'd be better off. I see pastors preaching "come to jesus" sermons to a congregation. That's just so uncanny to me . . . isn't church for believers? Preaching the Gospel is different from teaching. Look at the way Jesus took questions and conversed with His disiples, explaining things, while when He preached to the multitudes He just told them, what thus said the Lord. And even then, He took questions and explained.
What I don't understand is why these men/women who have taken the title of "pastor" are not horrified and in great anguish of spirit over the state of the IC today.
Jimbo:
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Remarkably, you don't see how legalistic the stuck-in-Acts-2-mode is. There has never been any organization of worth that survived, including the Church of the Living God, that never adapted to changing times but remained in its infancy. How is what we have today an improvement? Please expound.
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/24/2008 5:05:15 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 3708
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
How is what we have today an improvement? Please expound.
The key word is not "improvement," it's the word "today." We not live in 60 AD.
If we want to revisit 60 AD, even without the threat of being turned into a human torch, would you consider it an improvement that women be silent around men regarding biblical teaching? - Forget that women have equal educational opportunities, they are still women in 60 AD.
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RE: Where did the Acts 2 Church go? - 3/24/2008 5:10:51 PM
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JimboFletch
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