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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 1:39:55 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Hello earthless! Please notice that Hank Hanegraaf charges subscription prices, and not a freewill gift, for his Christian Research Journal. For he charges admission for Sound Doctrinal exposition. I don't see the difference between charging for this and charging for a conference; except one can show up for free at the conference for they do not punch tickets. For it is written: You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
Please notice that even some of the cults give their material away for free. The Jehovah's Witnesses have watchtower and the Mormons give away free book of mormons.
Have you ever tried to pay $33 for a subscription when you make $1 a day or so? This is the case in some countries when operating in a worldwide format.
For God, in His Widsom, said: Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
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ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
One must teach the Good News that those who endure those trials will be rewarded with priesthood and they will Reign with Christ for one thousand years in the Millennium.
OH BOY... *can of worms* alert.
The irony...
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/27/2008 11:00:52 AM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 1:49:32 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
What makes it perverted? Because it is not Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 1:51:52 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
First of all, there is Full-Preterism and Partial Preterism. I don't know how familiar you are with Partial Preterism, but it's not that big of a deal.
Sorry, but either one is false and therefore, a big deal.
Why is it a big deal? Is it a salvation issue?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 2:01:20 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings Child4Jesus! Please notice that the first resurrection has not yet occurred and The Apostle admonishes regarding some: who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. And we know that All Scripture is God breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousnees, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
These things are Scripture, and Canon of Sound Doctrine. They are held in the highest esteem on every precept so that one may be counted among those that are equipped for good work; as it is written.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
First of all, there is Full-Preterism and Partial Preterism. I don't know how familiar you are with Partial Preterism, but it's not that big of a deal.
Sorry, but either one is false and therefore, a big deal.
Why is it a big deal? Is it a salvation issue?
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/26/2008 5:48:05 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 2:20:18 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1809
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Hello earthless! Please notice that Hank Hanegraaf charges subscription prices, and not a freewill gift, for his Christian Research Journal. For he charges admission for Sound Doctrinal exposition. I don't see the difference between charging for this and charging for a conference;
Hi prophetica, mind if I jump in?
I've never heard the Hanegraaf show and know very little about him but I did recently buy one of his books, so I've no problem with that. I see a difference in what is being "ministered" and sold, differences from one minister to the next.
If we have someone putting out their latest personal revelation for sale, that is distinctly different than a discussion of various teachings. It is because of the element of manipulation that is put forth, that one will miss some new thing of God or new move of God, if one does not have these revelations. Growing in knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures does not need to include a makeover or reinvention of Christianity.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 2:22:38 PM
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A_crucified_man
Posts: 164
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
First of all, there is Full-Preterism and Partial Preterism. I don't know how familiar you are with Partial Preterism, but it's not that big of a deal.
Sorry, but either one is false and therefore, a big deal.
Why is it a big deal? Is it a salvation issue?
False doctrine is a BIG DEAL and it can rob you of your salvation.
_____________________________
Derek
John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 2:30:37 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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prophetica,
First of all I don't believe that scripture teaches a first resurrection then another. The scripture you provide say the resurrection not first resurrection. Second only full preterist believe that the resurrection has already taken place and from that I know of what they believe they don't believe a physical resurrection has already taken place but a spiritual one.
On book I can suggest to all is Revelation Four Views A Parallel Commentary by Steve Gregg.
I think what people fail to realize is that there are four main views: Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Spiritual.
Each view has sub-views. Futurist has Pre-Millennial, Millennial, Post-Millennial, Pre-Wrath, Post-Wrath., etc.
Also I believe that dispensationalist are mistaken but I wouldn't go as far as saying they are heretics and hell bound.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 2:33:36 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
Why is it a big deal? Is it a salvation issue?
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
False doctrine is a BIG DEAL and it can rob you of your salvation.
There are some who would call what you believe mistaken but no one I know would call it false doctrine.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 2:50:05 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings wintery! I notice that the idea behind Hank's site is to equip the saints of God with Sound Doctrine. That is good work and honorable to want to do. I believe that we all are taught by God as it is written. The reality in Christ Jesus is that we have a personal relationship with Him and The Father in Heaven. This does not make us where we take pride in one teacher over another as is written.
Therefore, I heard that Hank shares the bad news on his show that the cults are spreading quickly in other countries. One of the reasons for this, is their model is free will gift and free books and supplies. One cannot help but notice that our focus is to be on Jesus, not everyone else. This means that it is a productive format to wage war against the false teachings and teachers to offer it free for those who cannot afford to buy the subscription. How come, then, didn't he realize this? I would like to see a free subscription proliferated to those who need it most.
As far as personal revelation, he teaches not in accordance with the Sound Doctrinal teachings regarding end time prophecy. It is written that this is wandering away from the faith. Also, it is written that some, eager for money, have wandered away from the faith. For those who want to get rich fall into a temptation and a trap. In order to escape this trap, one must be faithful with what one has been given. For the one who is faithful with little can, then, be entrusted with much.
No one who has revelation from God will look down on others, as admonished by the Scriptures, for God gives generously to all people everywhere; and especially to the believer various gifts to share freely with others. It is written: they will all be taught by God and that He will write His commandments upon them, Personally, so that they will keep the commandments of Christ. For Jesus said, If you love Me, you will keep my commands. One will be called least in The Kingdom of God, if one does not practice what is commanded and if one teaches others falsely. No one has an exclusive monopoly on Jesus, necessarily. We all have what we are given by God to share and help build up the body of Christ unto good fruits and good works. For God had even told Cain: If you do well, won't it be accepted? We know that Cain is a murderer and he made the first Martyr by spilling the blood of him whose sacrifice God had accepted.
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ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Hello earthless! Please notice that Hank Hanegraaf charges subscription prices, and not a freewill gift, for his Christian Research Journal. For he charges admission for Sound Doctrinal exposition. I don't see the difference between charging for this and charging for a conference;
Hi prophetica, mind if I jump in?
I've never heard the Hanegraaf show and know very little about him but I did recently buy one of his books, so I've no problem with that. I see a difference in what is being "ministered" and sold, differences from one minister to the next.
If we have someone putting out their latest personal revelation for sale, that is distinctly different than a discussion of various teachings. It is because of the element of manipulation that is put forth, that one will miss some new thing of God or new move of God, if one does not have these revelations. Growing in knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures does not need to include a makeover or reinvention of Christianity.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 2:58:34 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
prophetica,
First of all I don't believe that scripture teaches a first resurrection then another. The scripture you provide say the resurrection not first resurrection.
First of all I don't believe that scripture teaches a first resurrection then another. The scripture you provide say the resurrection not first resurrection.
Either way, they are teaching that The Millennium has occurred through the earthly Church rule and that means that they are asserting that the first resurrection has also happened. This is false and is not in accordance with the Sound Instruction found in the Holy Scriptures of God. One must correct one's doctrinal errors in order to remain in the faithfullness to Jesus Christ is what Hank teaches about others.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/27/2008 11:02:38 AM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 3:06:29 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 941
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
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I'm not a big Hank supporter. Theologically there are some views I disagree with. I do think that some of his analysis is insightful and dead on, while others are very suspect.
This is not just in regards to his end time teachings. We are to hold firm to sound teaching and refute false doctrine.
I would like to talk with him face to face and discuss scriptures. I find that on a lot of radio programs, the host can easily cut you off without giving you the opportunity to state your position clearly. I guess you have to take time into the factor as you only have but so much time to present your side. I like forums like these because it allows for true back and forth dialogue without having to hear someone raise their voice. LOL
< Message edited by LBolt -- 3/27/2008 9:33:37 AM >
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 3:26:53 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1809
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Therefore, I heard that Hank shares the bad news on his show that the cults are spreading quickly in other countries. One of the reasons for this, is their model is free will gift and free books and supplies. One cannot help but notice that our focus is to be on Jesus, not everyone else. This means that it is a productive format to wage war against the false teachings and teachers to offer it free for those who cannot afford to buy the subscription. How come, then, didn't he realize this? I would like to see a free subscription proliferated to those who need it most.
Last week I went to my local large volume book retailer and purchased HH's "Counterfeit Revival". As far as I know his radio show has never been on around here. We don't pay to listen to radio so there is the info for free that you are looking for--even if I can't hear it. I didn't mind paying for the book--I'm always looking for something to read.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 3:40:08 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2829
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
I'm not a big Hank supporter. Theologically there are some views I disagree with. I do think that some of his analysis is insightful and dead on, while others are very suspect.
This is not just in regards to his end time teachings. We are to hold firm to sound teaching and refute false doctrine.
I am a very big supporter of this kind of ministry and the idea that this kind of investigation of truth is important to every believer, but I also agree here with LBolt that I am very suspect of many of the methods used by Hank Hanagraf to support his positions. While I find myself often in agreement with many of the conclusions Hanagraf teaches, I find that I am quite often disturbed at the reasoning (or lack of it) that he uses to arrive at those conclusions. One example was his response to the "bible codes" that surfaced a few years ago; after looking at the evidence for these "codes" I concluded that the evidence does not support them, and this was also the same conclusion made by Hank Hanagraf. However, I looked at the mathematical proof submitted to University of California, Hayward, and the responses made by other scientists in the field, and concluded that the evidence did not support the codes. Hanagraf concluded that the codes were false because God would never hide codes in the bible (based one what, I don't know?), and believing that he would is sinful. Many of the "facts" he presented in his rebuttal against the "codes" were in factually wrong, etc... so while I do believe his conclusion was correct, I was very troubled by the methodology he used to arrive at his conclusion. I personally don't listen to him much because I have found that I often cannot trust the facts he presents to prove his point, even when I agree with him.
quote:
I would to talk with him face to face and discuss scriptures. I find that on a lot of radio programs, the host can easily cut you off without giving you the opportunity to state your position clearly.
I have heard Hanagraf take advantage of this way too often. From listening to his show, my guess is that his screeners are instructed to not let those who disagree and can defend their point of view on the air; however, once in a while someone does slip through, and when the dose happen, he always uses the "cut them off the air" strategy and then spends several minutes presenting a "strawman" to which no opportunity is ever allowed for a response. Even when I agree with his position, this strategy really bothers me because it is intellectually bankrupt.
Also, being in involved in academic circles, I often hear people who have a rich vocabulary and use it because it is a reflection of who they are, and others who attempt to use a rich vocabulary in order to talk down to everyone around them. I don't personally know Hank Hanagraf, but in hearing the exchanges he has on the air, my gut feeling is that he is much closer to the latter than he is to the former.
On a different note: I know many very good solid Christians that hold to a preterist point of view, and I respect their position, so I would never knock Hank for holding that view. On the whole I have never been troubled by most of the conclusions made by Hank Hanagraf, it is really his methodology that raises serious concerns for me.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 3:55:51 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings wintery! The radio show is presented online, as well, at oneplace.com. There are many teachers that are available to listen to there for free. So, you are correct; of course. I am just jealous that I cannot get the Christian Research Journal.
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Therefore, I heard that Hank shares the bad news on his show that the cults are spreading quickly in other countries. One of the reasons for this, is their model is free will gift and free books and supplies. One cannot help but notice that our focus is to be on Jesus, not everyone else. This means that it is a productive format to wage war against the false teachings and teachers to offer it free for those who cannot afford to buy the subscription. How come, then, didn't he realize this? I would like to see a free subscription proliferated to those who need it most.
Last week I went to my local large volume book retailer and purchased HH's "Counterfeit Revival". As far as I know his radio show has never been on around here. We don't pay to listen to radio so there is the info for free that you are looking for--even if I can't hear it. I didn't mind paying for the book--I'm always looking for something to read.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 3:57:43 PM
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A_crucified_man
Posts: 164
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
Why is it a big deal? Is it a salvation issue?
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
False doctrine is a BIG DEAL and it can rob you of your salvation.
There are some who would call what you believe mistaken but no one I know would call it false doctrine.
I understand what you're saying, but from where I am sitting doctrinally, I can't call it anything else but false. For me, it's no different than saying water baptism saves, or that there is more than one way to Heaven, etc.
_____________________________
Derek
John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 4:22:51 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6121
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Hello earthless! Please notice that Hank Hanegraaf charges subscription prices, and not a freewill gift, for his Christian Research Journal. For he charges admission for Sound Doctrinal exposition. I don't see the difference between charging for this and charging for a conference; except one can show up for free at the conference for they do not punch tickets. For it is written: You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
Please notice that even some of the cults give their material away for free. The Jehovah's Witnesses have watchtower and the Mormons give away free book of mormons.
What was Hank's excuse? If The Word of God was so important to Hank, He would not be charging admission. For one of the signs of Jesus is the Gospel is preached to the poor. Have you ever tried to pay $33 for a subscription when you make $1 a day or so? This is the case in some countries when operating in a worldwide format.
Salutations prophetica! I will repeat what I said in the other thread you and I were conversing in: As for CRI charging for books they sell being a bad thing? One can certainly hold to that conviction, if you're able to give stuff away for free, that is so awesome!
As for Hank taking vacations with his family? I am sure he does. Again, if you're going to hold to the conviction that no one in ministry should ever take vacations with their families, that is certainly a conviction you can rightfully hold.
As I shared in the Ministers sub-forum, there is a solid reason why I have never received a single penny for any of my work in the ministry and why I continue not to collect a single red cent. I prefer to make my living, provide for my family, take all the vacations I want, based off of the money I receive at my job and so that then when I do indeed do ministry, it is done without any hang ups or worries about how much they are going to give me.
God bless.
Side question - why can't you receive the CRI Journal?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 4:29:01 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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As to prophecy: we know that alot of people missed the day of His visitation to Judea when He came during His earthly ministry because they misunderstood the Prophecies in Isaiah and Daniel regarding how He would suffer and be cut off and have nothing.
In the same way, we see that some could miss the Sound Counsel of Scripture regarding what was to take place during the last 7 years before The Messiah comes into His Millennial Reign at Jerusalem. These things are sound teaching to prepare the believer in Christ for the trials to come when the false prophet institutes the mark of the beast as a worldwide leader. For it is written: he who endures to the end will be saved. It is written so that the believers would know that if they overcome these, they will Reign with Christ for a thousand years as priests; for many of them will be Martyrs for the faith during that time. So one could discern what is more important: 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days plus 30-75 days of trials; or 1000 years of being priest at Jerusalem with Christ Jesus. For it is written blessed and holy are those who take part in the first resurrection for they will Reign with Christ for a thousand years.
Would God give the believers a whole book dedicted to delineated Scriptural prophecy if it wasn't important to take notice of regarding how it might affect us and our decisions?
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
Why is it a big deal? Is it a salvation issue?
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
False doctrine is a BIG DEAL and it can rob you of your salvation.
There are some who would call what you believe mistaken but no one I know would call it false doctrine.
I understand what you're saying, but from where I am sitting doctrinally, I can't call it anything else but false. For me, it's no different than saying water baptism saves, or that there is more than one way to Heaven, etc.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/26/2008 5:51:34 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 5:15:03 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1905
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
Why is it a big deal? Is it a salvation issue?
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
False doctrine is a BIG DEAL and it can rob you of your salvation.
There are some who would call what you believe mistaken but no one I know would call it false doctrine.
I understand what you're saying, but from where I am sitting doctrinally, I can't call it anything else but false. For me, it's no different than saying water baptism saves, or that there is more than one way to Heaven, etc.
And premillenial dispensationalism is correct doctrine? Hardly.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 5:20:08 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5534
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: online
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Prophetica, you can download CRI Journal articles from Equip.org at no cost.
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 5:21:35 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Thank you, kindly, for that information.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
Prophetica, you can download CRI Journal articles from Equip.org at no cost.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 5:22:32 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6121
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
Prophetica, you can download CRI Journal articles from Equip.org at no cost.
For free?!
Uh oh...................
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/26/2008 5:32:52 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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LOL!! Hamster fest!
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
Prophetica, you can download CRI Journal articles from Equip.org at no cost.
For free?!
Uh oh...................
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