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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 9:11:37 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 227
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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quote:
If he repents of all of that, gets saved (because he attributes his conversion experience to Emma, not to Jesus) and sincerely moves onto sound doctrine, then praise Jesus!
First of all, hello all - I've been on holidays for the past week so I'm a little behind on the posts!
earthless:
Just wondering if you could site where you got this information (quote above) from? Thanks...
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/18/2008 9:15:53 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
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to earthless, I don't want to get into an argument, but I was meaning message posted that said, "Todd said God told him to stop talking about Jesus, and talk and focus on angels instead" it was on your message posted from june 08 sometime, and i clicked on a lakeland discussion with your name as moderator at the forum list of topics, ...
.... you had a link posted on your message board, and i clicked on it, and i went to a site talking about how wrong Bently has been in saying and doing with large letters, so i listened to the captured clip of bentley and what he said did was not what the criticism of him was at all, it was kind of drummed up, I will find it and copy it here, lwith a link, to show you, onthe clip bently just says that God told him that many parts ofthe church refuse to believe in and accept the supernatural now, although they believe in Jesus, they will not believe in miracles now, or angels now, they call it all for the past and not for us now, "
this is whatbently was really saying but it was made out bye the critics that he said, "God told him to not preach about Jesus, but instead preach and draw attention to angels." which is not what bently said at all.
it definitely seemed to be an overcriticism that seemed to try to drum up something that bently did not say, but what the critics were trying to make him out as saying,
I thought it was unfair and unjust, truly, and I am coming from a pro bently place, at this time, i am not neg. to bently either,...i have not asked the Lord, first, and second i have not done enough bently homework.
FIREFOX, how can that be applied here,
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 9:17:23 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 227
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurch
I think copeland has been wrongfully criticized by many for way toolong, and the whole prosperity gospel even the name of it, is wrong to do to them, because what they teach is right out of the bible, guaranteed. it is not new, it is not heresy, it is real and the bible says it, in many many places.
Also re Bentley, I have read some nasty criticisms on these pages of what the guy has supposedly said, and then when i click on the link I go with that link to a down with bentley site that is shredding him wrongfully, using drummed up things with clips of him actually speaking, and the drummed up things that are printed all in big letters, when you hear the clip, Bently didn't even say that and you can tell he did not mean anything like that.
Remember Bently has not;
-has not reported flying saucers like ezekiel did,
I've condensed your quote for the sake of brevity... (note to all other posters - this would be a wise thing to do when you are quoting long posts, as the quotes of quotes tend to take up too much space!).
1. Re: Copeland - see the "Word of Faith one stop thread" for many apologetic posts and links that answer your claims... the Word Faith movement, including Kenneth Copeland, preach many things that contradict the Scriptures. And even though they 'use' the Scriptures to support their teachings, you need to realize that they are twisting the Scriptures and taking them out of context... true Biblical hermeneutics (interpretation) does not support the claims of the Word Faith movement.
2. Re: your observations on the posts, links & youtube clips about Todd Bentley - you made some good observations, and if you had read some of the earlier discussions in this thread, you would have discovered that I already addressed some of the 'shock tactics' used by Bentley's opponents, as well as those who have taken things out of context to try to prove their points. If we are going to take a stand for biblical purity and integrity, then we must make sure that we are fair and honest in our criticisms of his teachings as well.
3. Re: Ezekiel and 'flying saucers'... ?? Chapter and verse please? That's not in the Bible!
Bless you all today...
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/18/2008 9:21:54 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
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to earthless,
---p.s. on the last post just before this, my typing is bad, sorry, it came out wrong, I meant to type ' I AM NOT PRO- NOR NEG. TO BENTLY AT THIS TIME, I HAVE NOT ASKED THE LORD TO SHOW ME YET RE HIM, AND I HAVE NOT DONE ENOUGH BENTLY HOMEWORK TO DISCERN FOR MYSELF.
THE LORD WILL TELL AND SHOW, HE PROMISES THAT HE WILL GUARD AND PROTECT AND WARN AND REVEAL, RE THE FALSE.
THE FALSE CAN BE KNOWN BY MAKING A STUDY OF THE TRUE. LIKE MONEY AT THE BANK, BY STUDYING THE ASPECTS OF THE TRUE BILL, THE TELLER IS ABLE TO DISTINQUISH THE FALSE, SAME WITH THIS KIND OF THING, STUDY THE TRUE, AND ASK GOD FOR WISDOM WHICH HE SAYS HE WILL NEVER DENY US.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 9:38:49 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
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HELLO ChristopherJchurch:
Re the": "flying saucers", and Ezekiel,
I was taking liberties by listing what Ezekiel wrote, in a way that might be reported on and criticized today,..
if Ezekiel and what he had to say was getting put through the shredding mill,...like Bently is,
.. which is the way some of the things about what Bently supposedly has said, are being changed to make them sound what you know what was not even said or meant, when you listen to the actual clips.
I am not for or against Bentley, I am for God, and I think asking the Lord is the only sure way to know the true source of someone claiming to be sent from the Lord.
For example the way you clipped what I had to say to make it sound like I am saying Ezekiel's description was about flying saucers, he reported a wheel within a wheel covered with eyes, ------
---- I am pointing out simply that someone can be FROM GOD, AND SEEM VERY UNUSUAL AT THE SAME TIME, IE- JOHN THE BAPTIST, WHO ATE INSECTS AS HIS STAPLE FOOD,
-PAUL THE APOSTLE WHO WAS PULLED OUT OF HIS BODY INTO THE THIRD HEAVEN,
...-ISAIAH THE PROPHET WHO WAS TOLD TO LIE NAKED ON ONE SIDE FOR A VERY LONG TIME IN PUBLIC, AS A MESSAGE FROM GOD,
- MOSES WHO WAS GIVEN A STICK THAT TURNED INTO A SNAKE AND THEN BACK TO A STICK, AS A RESUME OF HIS BEING SENT BY GOD,
- MOSES WHO HAD HEALING MEETINGS WEHRE HE PUT A SNAKE ON A STICK AT THE FRONT AND TOLD EVEYRONE WHO WANTED TO BE HEALED TO LOOK AT THE SNAKE, (THIS IS IN THE BIBLE)
-THESE THINGS ARE VERY WEIRD AND ANYONE OF THESE MEN WOULD B
E CRITICIZED TODAY BY SHREDDING AND BEING MOCKED AND RIDICULED ON A THING LIKE THIS THE INTERNET, BUT THIS WOULD IN NO WISE PROVE THAT THEY WEREN'T FROM GOD.
HAVING SOMETHING STRANGE TO REPORT OR STRANGE HAPPEN TO THEM IE. MOSES WHO WAS TOLD BY A B U R N I N G B U S H TO SAVE THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, WOULD BE TOSSED OUT OF EVERY SELF RESPECTING PULPIT TODAY, IF HE WAS AROUND AND TRIED TO PUT THAT STORY TO THE PUBLIC TODAY.
THINK ABOUT IT.
RE THE COPELANDS, I STAND BY WHAT I HAVE SAID, EVERYTHING THEY SPEAK OF CONCERNING THE COVENANT OF ABRAHAM, GIVEN TO JESUS, AND THROUGH HIM TO US, INCLUDING FINANCIAL BLESSING IS BIBLICALLY SUPPORTED, WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE AND I WILL CAN SHOW YOU WHERE.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 9:47:03 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
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Hello Lapidoth -church:
I found your name in the bible, Lapidoth was the husband of Deborah the prophetess and judge of Israel.
Are you the husband of woman leader in the church? or a woman prophetess?
re prosperity message, again I believe it is wrongfully named and criticized, there is no prosperity gospel, just the actual gospel and it includes promises from God about blessings in all areas, including financial. The Word of God cannot be changed. It is in there, I have read it, it is throughout the whole bible.
It is supported the the Jewish everthing from the o.t. and woven throughout all their wiritngs and teachings, in black and white, never to be removed, not one jot or tittle.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 9:55:06 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
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to chistopher,
dont be too hard on earthless, he is very committed to the Lord (for this I love him already) and may have decided that Bently is on the opposing God side, so he is treating him like the enemy.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 10:18:01 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurch
dear Lapidoth; (what is the meaning behind why you chose your handle/name for this board?)what is lapidoth?
First I want to apologize for posting such long writings, I am new to this whole way of connecting on the internet, so please bare with me.
I might still be longwinded if I am trying to get a point across.
You all seem to know each other and many agree with anti-Word of Faith, and anti -Bentley,--- it seems, although I have seen support and good things said about both topics.
I would like to comment on these two topics.
Number one, I am not a word of faith adher-er (if this is a word) or someone who has looked into Bently a lot as yet.
I have listened to Copeland and believe what he teaches on the covenants of God, Abraham's covenant and blessing, and the results of it, which is a bible covenant that is explained in many places, and which is also for the new testament believer, who is a grafted in jew by heart circumcision, to include everthing that was given to Adam, and bought back by Jesus. for the believers today.
This I believe is all true according to the bible. Copeland does not teach a prosperity gospel from anything i have heard.
He teaches the full covenant of Abraham, given to Jesus, and then given to us, through Jesus, our joint-heirship, - through this giving it to us, it restores all the deuteronomy blessings to us, and removes all of the curse, supernaturally, by us walking in it by our belief and trust in the promises of God and not doubting.
for example, the bible says,"God made Abraham very very rich." quote, and also "The blessing of the Lord makes rich, and adds no sorrow." RICH does not just mean spiritual things, it also means natural temporal things.
I think copeland has been wrongfully criticized by many for way toolong, and the whole prosperity gospel even the name of it, is wrong to do to them, because what they teach is right out of the bible, guaranteed. it is not new, it is not heresy, it is real and the bible says it, in many many places.
Also re Bentley, I have read some nasty criticisms on these pages of what the guy has supposedly said, and then when i click on the link I go with that link to a down with bentley site that is shredding him wrongfully, using drummed up things with clips of him actually speaking, and the drummed up things that are printed all in big letters, when you hear the clip, Bently didn't even say that and you can tell he did not mean anything like that.
This I believe is just plain wrong, especially in light of the fact that what is going on there, even thoug people don't agree, havent seen it before, are afraid of it, it is not in keeoping with their opinions of what they think the bibile says, even though all of this, it is just
....plain possible that what is goingon could very well be of God.
Remember Bently has not;
-handled snakes as a sign that God sent him, like moses did
-put a snake on a pole at the front of the auditorium and told people to -look at it to be healed, like Moses did,
-told people if they refused to look at the snake on thepole, they would all be killed immediately, (and they were) Moses did.
-has not reported flying saucers like ezekiel did,
-has not said he got pulled out of his body on a trip to the third heaven like the apostle paul did, (oh sorry, he did say that)
-told anyone that a burning bush told him to travel to a country far away and rescue several million people, like moses did,
-lain naked on one side publicly as a sign of a message from God, like I think it was Isaiah did,
-took off his dirty underwear and buried it under a rock til it rotted, then carried it around with him as a sermon illustration, (another bible prophet)
-lived in the desert all by himself, and ate bugs and wild honey, like john the baptist did,
---
---so you can be glad that you do not have to discern anything outlandish, just a few piercings, tatoos, and references to real supernatural beings that the bible talks about and calls angels.
!
hellochurch.. I take it you haven't prayfully read Two Rivers yet. TWO RIVERS please do so.
You said you listened to the clip on Angel/Supernatural over Jesus. He made it quite clear in his mind that he was supposed to direct folks toward the supernatural and at that point the angel Winds of Change, which he referenced as the angel that was with Braham. Yes, some folks out there do a poor job and engage in tactics that are unnecessary and due damage to the truth. But that is going to happen.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 10:31:29 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
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A lot more I could comment on. FOlks are not complaining about anything "unusual" regarding Bentley. In fact, what is going on is quite usual and follows footsteps of folks like Popoff, Hinn and other cons.
You have issues about the focus on supernatural over Jesus statement. Take a strong look at his teaching here... http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html that is a Good starting point of where Todd is at and antigospel he speaks/teaches.
And you have not prayed over or for discernment regarding Mr. Bentley, and have already been subjected to a specific experience. So you should get serious to see what you have been exposed to. And while there are well meaning folks who take things out of context or engage in manipulation, that kind of stuff just detracts from the truth. I can speak with sound assurance that Mr. Bentley is serving and teaching that which is not of God. THere is definite evil being manifest. I have no doubt based on the discernment God has given me.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 11:02:55 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurch
Hello Lapidoth -church:
I found your name in the bible, Lapidoth was the husband of Deborah the prophetess and judge of Israel.
Are you the husband of woman leader in the church? or a woman prophetess?
re prosperity message, again I believe it is wrongfully named and criticized, there is no prosperity gospel, just the actual gospel and it includes promises from God about blessings in all areas, including financial. The Word of God cannot be changed. It is in there, I have read it, it is throughout the whole bible.
It is supported the the Jewish everthing from the o.t. and woven throughout all their wiritngs and teachings, in black and white, never to be removed, not one jot or tittle.
LOL.
glad you found the husband of Deborah, one of the judges. (Judges 4)
No, I didn't take my name from him. Although I could twist a convincing link to him.
Lapidoth was the husband of Deborah. Deborah was a judge of Israel.
I take my name from Genesis 15 or 18, can't recall exactly the chapter.
I just popped into my office for preparation for tomorrow so I didn't bring
my Bible with me.
You can look it up for yourself. When Abraham was given the Covenant.
If you pay close attention, you should notice that Abraham was put into a
"deep sleep" while the Covenant was being cut. Abraham provided the animals
for the blood covenant and then was put to sleep. Then a "Smoking Oven" and
a "Torch" passed through the blood making the Covenant. The Hebrew word for
"Torch" is 'lapidoth.'
The connection to Deborah is a bit of a stretch, but one could make a point that
the "Torch" was married to the "female" judge. Yeshua and His bride? But, like
I said, it's a stretch, but men like Copeland wouldn't make them any difference
to state it as a mystical "FACT."
I still have a Copeland Bible. I bought it because is was a cheap price for a
Leather Bound Bible. I have all his notes in the front of it. I NEVER use them.
They are from "his" point of view and not the Context of the Bible.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 11:07:13 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
Number one, I am not a word of faith adher-er (if this is a word) or someone who has looked into Bently a lot as yet.
I have listened to Copeland and believe what he teaches on the covenants of God, Abraham's covenant and blessing, and the results of it, which is a bible covenant that is explained in many places, and which is also for the new testament believer, who is a grafted in jew by heart circumcision, to include everthing that was given to Adam, and bought back by Jesus. for the believers today.
This I believe is all true according to the bible. Copeland does not teach a prosperity gospel from anything i have heard.
He teaches the full covenant of Abraham, given to Jesus, and then given to us, through Jesus, our joint-heirship, - through this giving it to us, it restores all the deuteronomy blessings to us, and removes all of the curse, supernaturally, by us walking in it by our belief and trust in the promises of God and not doubting.
for example, the bible says,"God made Abraham very very rich." quote, and also "The blessing of the Lord makes rich, and adds no sorrow." RICH does not just mean spiritual things, it also means natural temporal things.
You don't realize it, but you have contradicted yourself in this one post.
If you believe Copeland is right on, then you ARE a word of faith adhere(er).
You've been blinded by it, so you can't see it yourself. But, one day you will.
If you search for the truth, you will find it; if you are content in what Copeland
teaches, you won't find it. So, keep searching and studying.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/18/2008 11:13:56 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
RE THE COPELANDS, I STAND BY WHAT I HAVE SAID, EVERYTHING THEY SPEAK OF CONCERNING THE COVENANT OF ABRAHAM, GIVEN TO JESUS, AND THROUGH HIM TO US, INCLUDING FINANCIAL BLESSING IS BIBLICALLY SUPPORTED, WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE AND I WILL CAN SHOW YOU WHERE.
You won't have to show us anything.
Some of us have swallowed his heresy hook, line, and sinker.
But thank God, showed us the error by His Grace.
Copeland and others were the primers used to set people up for the Bentleys.
But you will see that Bentley is so off the mark, that even some of the WoF'ers
pull away from Bentley. I gave a link with Billy Brim condoning Bentley sitting
across from Gloria Copeland. So, they are guilty of the same sin as Bentley.
The elders of the Church are to warn and protect the flocks against the wolves,
not set them up for the slaughter.
Your terminology takes everything out of CONTEXT of the Bible. So you will
need more good Bible study in the years to come. Not a criticism, just an
observation. Hopefully, you are mature enough to take a little counsel and
correction.
God Bless.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/19/2008 12:08:56 AM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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to solarflare,
the gentleman you were talking to was quoting 1 Cor 12 3 which says "that no man can say that Jesus is LORD, except by the Holy Ghost."
Did you know that the word LORD there is the word used to describe YHVH, in other words " no Man can say that JESUS IS THE L O R D G O D A L M I G H T Y and recognize him for who he really is, unless the Holy Ghost shows it to him.
I read some comments posted on this site with links to trash and bash bently sites that printed in huge letters that bently was for example saying that "God told him not to talk about Jesus anymore, that he should instead focus on 'the angel'."
When I clicked on the clip to play it, Bently did not say that at all, he clearly said that "God told him that so many in the church are so opposed to the supernatural, the real God supernatural, because they think it is wrong, that even though they say the believe in Jesus, they are denying the power that accompanies Jesus, and do not believe in the supernatural for her and now today, ie angels etc. and miracles and healings, etc. etc.
This was a deliberate misquote of Bentley made to be used to twist what he said and make it into something that Bently never said nor ever meant. It was mean, and it was done on this site by christians for the purpose of bashing bently.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 12:36:51 AM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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reply to peacebringer;
no not listened to the TWO RIVERS, yet,
- re Braham ref. there was no braham reference on the clip of bently speaking, and no winds of change angel reference, just Bently saying that God told him many of the church people believe in Jesus, but few believe the supernatural is for today, and the supernatural is God's, - incl. angels, etc. which God said most who believe in Jesus do not really believe are real.
The above speech by Bently was in a clip board which had a huge header stating that Bently said he was not going to speak about JEsus any more that God told him to talk about 'the angel' instead.
I have to say that the website was very hyped and was deliberately turning things Bently said into things he didn't say or mean. It seemed they were drumming up things, on purpose....
Not ok.
If you did not have the bible to know that Moses was ok, or Paul, or Ezekiel, or Isaiah, or John the baptist, and the press or these type of sites that are bashing bently got ahold of info. on these guys, they would be equally trashed without properly being looked into just based on sounding or looking different, ie.
-Moses's snakehandling as a sign from God,
-John's insect eating and desert living, strange clothes, etc.
-Pauls out of body experience, in the 3rd heaven
-Ezekiel's vision of the wheels full of eyes....
-Isaiah's naked messages from God,
-Isaiah or other prophets dirty wrotten underwear as a sermon prop,
-Moses's healing meeting, "look at the snake on the stick to get healed"
---these things that dont make us uneasy because they are safe and common being in the bible, are v e r y u n u s u a l,
for ie. would you stay long in a pulpit today if you admitted you had been called to the ministry by a burning bush?,
----- it might be amusing, but stop and ponder,
-angels are real, they have names, they do not have gender, we know some appeared to look like men in the past, because Abraham thought they were men, at first.
- it is not impossible that an angel might look like a female, for example, God who describes himself as He and male, in the bible also describes himself as a large and impending female part (no disrespect is meant to the Lord here) but he calls himself "all breasty one" it is one of his names, I forget the hebrew word right now) so if God can be female and even be a whole female part, only that in a description of himself as a comforting image, then surely his angels appearing like males sometimes, even though the bible says they are without a sex, might also appear like a female.
There are so many things in the bible, all the things actually that have a darkness counterfeit, an Emma on both sides is not unlikely, because there are two lions, JEsus and satan, two- most things, most symbols in the bible have a Light and a darkness application.
Think about that.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 12:42:57 AM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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Torch, you are making tongue in cheek remarks at my expense I believe.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 1:04:59 AM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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reply to Torch;
I mean I do not attend a Word of Faith church, I have listened to Copeland teach, what he said about the Abrahamic covenant and the Blessings of God being passed to us through JEsus is what the bible says, these include financial blessings. The blessing and what i t is like and the curse and what it is like are outlined in The Book. The blessing is real, the Jews knew about it and wrote it up extra-biblical as well as in our Holy texts, it appears in many places.This is not heresy.
What has been misconstrued is the criticism of it, the name calling and the misapplication, etc.
And re Bently, I have yet to hear any concrete criticism of him, nothing that wouldnt be criticized of moses, isaiah, paul, ezekiel, if they were out there today, talking about their experiences.
Could Moses ever get a job in your church after he shared about how a burning bush spoke to him, or paul after talking about his out of body experience, you just feel safe with them because they are in the bible.\no discernment needed, but you cannot discern by the outer, when God looks on the heart, you cannot judge clothes and food, when God judges the motives,-
if Paul had a guy circumcized just so he could take him into certain places, even though he preached the end of those things already, is that so much different than Bentley marking himself to communicate with a non-mainstream, non white collar non pulpit non-churched group of maybe anti-church people, people who are fed up and have left chuches for maybe valid reasons, (yes I know but i mean non born again people leaving institutions, the inst. of church)
- i am not a bently advocate, just opposed to writing people off unless for valid reasons, of which I have not heard any real ones yet.
What you had to say to me that you have been there and done that re copeland, is not a valid biblical presentation at all either, of factual texts that speak against for example the blessing of abraham which was given to jesus and then to us, which includes financial blessing.
You have just, 'now now dear' -ed me,
tongue and cheek, at my expense perhaps, 
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 7:31:13 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1769
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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hellochurch, I completely agree that there are people "drumming things up" to criticize Bentley for. The guy posting on YouTube as "localpastor" or something like that may have some good points but his bold-letter commentary over the video bugs me to no end. You have to weed through what's out there, what others have been saying and what Bentley has been saying. But if you prayerfully and diligently do so, and study for yourself, you'll be able to speak to this topic.
I did that. My head was swimming from all I was reading and seeing on YouTube. I spent several days following links, reading, praying, compiling . . . I found some criticisms to not hold much water - like the arguments about tattoos. But others, even through the hype, are still really quite problematic - like the focus on Emma rather than on Christ - God's Word never says to look for the supernatural, to look for angels...it says to seek after righteousness and follow His son. I came to my own conclusions and, frankly, Bentley's way off the reservation!!
I was also raised on the teachings of Kenneth Copeland. I loved Gloria Copeland! I haven't decided if he's always taught the way he's taught the last ten years or if, way back when, I was just so snowed I didn't see through it. But the things he says now, framed in arguments that sound great, snuck in between misappropriated scripture, sound great but when you really try to discern what he's saying, so much of it is not scriptural by any stretch!
We have to be careful! I'll even say that most of what you see on Todd Bentley's website sounds great at first. A lot of his posted teachings are pretty glaringly scarey stuff. But his Statement of Faith, for example, sounds great on the surface. He uses all the right buzz words and people don't take the time to look deeper.
I've got a lot of info that I tried to pull together very objectively. I wanted all the arguments together in one place for my own benefit. I could still add to it but, if you're interested in doing the research because you say you haven't, PM me and I'll send it to give you a head start.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 8:28:19 AM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurch
reply to peacebringer;
no not listened to the TWO RIVERS, yet,
- re Braham ref. there was no braham reference on the clip of bently speaking, and no winds of change angel reference, just Bently saying that God told him many of the church people believe in Jesus, but few believe the supernatural is for today, and the supernatural is God's, - incl. angels, etc. which God said most who believe in Jesus do not really believe are real.
The above speech by Bently was in a clip board which had a huge header stating that Bently said he was not going to speak about JEsus any more that God told him to talk about 'the angel' instead.
I have to say that the website was very hyped and was deliberately turning things Bently said into things he didn't say or mean. It seemed they were drumming up things, on purpose....
Not ok.
If you did not have the bible to know that Moses was ok, or Paul, or Ezekiel, or Isaiah, or John the baptist, and the press or these type of sites that are bashing bently got ahold of info. on these guys, they would be equally trashed without properly being looked into just based on sounding or looking different, ie.
-Moses's snakehandling as a sign from God,
-John's insect eating and desert living, strange clothes, etc.
-Pauls out of body experience, in the 3rd heaven
-Ezekiel's vision of the wheels full of eyes....
-Isaiah's naked messages from God,
-Isaiah or other prophets dirty wrotten underwear as a sermon prop,
-Moses's healing meeting, "look at the snake on the stick to get healed"
---these things that dont make us uneasy because they are safe and common being in the bible, are v e r y u n u s u a l,
for ie. would you stay long in a pulpit today if you admitted you had been called to the ministry by a burning bush?,
----- it might be amusing, but stop and ponder,
-angels are real, they have names, they do not have gender, we know some appeared to look like men in the past, because Abraham thought they were men, at first.
- it is not impossible that an angel might look like a female, for example, God who describes himself as He and male, in the bible also describes himself as a large and impending female part (no disrespect is meant to the Lord here) but he calls himself "all breasty one" it is one of his names, I forget the hebrew word right now) so if God can be female and even be a whole female part, only that in a description of himself as a comforting image, then surely his angels appearing like males sometimes, even though the bible says they are without a sex, might also appear like a female.
There are so many things in the bible, all the things actually that have a darkness counterfeit, an Emma on both sides is not unlikely, because there are two lions, JEsus and satan, two- most things, most symbols in the bible have a Light and a darkness application.
Think about that.
the short clips don't show the braham context, but that was what Bentley was speaking about prior to the lauded clip.
The point is not about Mr. Bentley and his tatoo's or presentation. The point is he preaches a different gospel. He emphasizes the supernatural, regardless of whatever he said directly.
You reference darkness counterfits, and there you are on to something. But not as you suppose in there being a "light" Emma to counter a dark emma. The true angels who serve the lamb are what the angels of light are masquerading as. Nothing more complex then that.
As to Mr. Bentley, it is his teaching. Read the stuff the man has written and see how it compares with the word of God.
In terms of dark counterfits, with what is going on with Mr. Bentley, outside of the manipuliation and hypnosis, there is the counterfit of the Holy Spirit in kundalini.
Lakeland is full of darkness and full of leading people toward destruction.
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 9:21:14 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ
earthless:
Just wondering if you could site where you got this information (quote above) from? Thanks...
It was on his own Fresh Fire ministries for a long long time - but they took it off when several Christian sites started to report on it. It is archived on other sites and somewhere in the 127 pages of this thread those sites are listed.
I am not able to spend too much time on the web this morning, but I will be able to search for it later this weekend. That's if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 9:23:36 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Just a slight suggestion to brother hellochurch - instead of posting so much in this thread.. why not just take that time to actually read it? We have suggested that to you a few pages back because you admitted you had not, etc..
Just a suggestion.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 11:04:32 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
-THESE THINGS ARE VERY WEIRD AND ANYONE OF THESE MEN WOULD B
E CRITICIZED TODAY BY SHREDDING AND BEING MOCKED AND RIDICULED ON A THING LIKE THIS THE INTERNET, BUT THIS WOULD IN NO WISE PROVE THAT THEY WEREN'T FROM GOD.
The problem with this argument, is that you are not taking into consideration the time period these people lived in or the customs or the fact that what we might consider strange today, was probably not as strange back then. Israel had had prophets for years - seems like they no longer took them seriously. We do not have prophets like that now.
People need to STOP taking verses out of the Bible to support what they believe and START taking God's word in context and allow the Holy Spirit to change the way they THINK so that they will KNOW the TRUTH instead of being mixed up and NOT UNDERSTANDING what they read.
ps - The caps are intended to put emphasis on the word - not volume
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 11:24:12 AM
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lbolm
Posts: 53
Joined: 7/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
A healing is not FRUIT - we are to judge by fruit - a healing (genuine)
can also be attributed to Satan - he can also do that - so really,
we are left NOWHERE other than where we were at the start of your
gleeful 'proof'.
Solarflare,
I had to leave yesterday. I had an important meeting going on. Sorry, you thought I was running from you. I ill get back to yesterdays thouhts in a few.
I had a debate with someone over almost the same remarks you are making here about satan being able to heal. I challenged him and now challenge you to give me ONE scripture that proves that satan has healed, does heal or will heal anybody. There is NO SUCH scripture !! If you want to take out of context about "fool the very elect" thing, then that is exactly what you are doing. GIVE me solid proof, from the Word of God, that satan heals!!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 11:40:05 AM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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Um, lbolm, the Antichrist will come with ALL POWER, all signs, wonders and miracles.
Another reference may be the pool of Bethesda. Granted that is up to interpretation of the passage, but solid examination of the archelogy of the site suggests the pool was a pagan healing site, and waters could be attributed to demon stirring, could also be an attribution of natural phenomona.
I would also take a look at the pharisees suggesting Jesus was healing by Beelzebub. Why would even such an accusation be even afforded to be made if it wasn't seen and observed previously.
This really could be a debate for another thread. Also add in the the devil can certainly remove "curses" to make it appear like healing. I think where the devil is you will find much false and much manipulation and the kind of things we are seeing at Lakeland. There is too much physical evidence even to the contrary when you add in Mary apparitions, new age healers like Reiki, shamans, witch doctors and so on. Like all counterfits, it pails in comparison.
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/19/2008 11:47:07 AM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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dear soxfan;
I would just like a biblical reference please to support your statement that satan can heal.
Where in the bible is this listed in text, that satan healed someone?
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/19/2008 11:47:58 AM
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lbolm
Posts: 53
Joined: 7/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Um, lbolm, the Antichrist will come with ALL POWER, all signs, wonders and miracles.
Scripture and verse that proves for a fact that satan heals! That is all I ask for. Not the same old tired stuff about the anti-christ blah,blah.
satan must really like the way that some of you build him up into some great thing.
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