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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/20/2008 9:14:14 PM
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prophet
Posts: 586
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
miracles, signs, and wonders... based on the context of Scripture, of what the disciples and the apostles did.. it is more than proper to say that physical healing does fall into those categories.
Thus, Satan (and the demonic realm) can and will do just that. To deceive and confuse.
AMEN BRO! Theres just too many warnings in the scriptures about lying signs and wonders to ignore.
Signs and wonders...why lying? Cos theres no TRUTH in these signs and wonders. The only God breathed signs and wonders are accompanied by TRUTH.
Shalom
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/20/2008 9:45:10 PM
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my quivers full
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From: Canada
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I had a browse through this thread earlier out of curiosity. I had read some of Fresh fire's teachings over the years and wasn't sure what to make of all the supernatural experiences. It seemed way too out of the ordinary. I was just watching Godtv online and some preacher was talking about the baptism night, I had read a little about here. He told a story of a lady who asked him why Todd baptised people in the name of Bam. When he asked her to explain, she said he baptised people in the name of the Father and the Son and Bam. So he goes on to say that he didn't know what to say to her, so he does what he always does when he doesn't know what to say. He made something up and said it was really cool what the Holy Spirit said through him.
I'm thinking, you made something up?!? and the Holy Spirit did it? He went on to tell her that in acts 1:8 those in the upper room were endued with power when the Holy Spirit came upom them. He told her that the word for power was Dunamis which is where we get the word for dynamite from and when dynamite explodes it goes Bam, so to baptise someone in Bam was to baptise them in the Holy Spirit who gives them Dunamis power. BAM!
?????
I know what he's saying but it seems contrary to my understanding of how God relates to people. I can't find any scriptural reference for any display of Gods power to be done as a show. Even when the Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign, He didn't jump through thier hoops. Even Herod asked Jesus to do a miracle for him. No response. Even Satan tried to get Jesus, in the desert, to use His power for Himself, to meet His own needs and to declare Himself to the world. Didn't happen. Jesus only did what the Father told Him to do and He only said what the Father told Him to say. The works He did were to glorify the Father. I know some people who go to this Florida thing are honestly wanting a touch from the Lord and they've been told you need to come to the spout where the glory comes out. The cost of true disciplship is high and we live in a fast food, microwave society where we will go after someone who we think has it already and we don't need to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus. Though miracles are happening, I wonder about the fruit of those who are buying into this and what will become of them when this whole thing is no more. If we are only riding some wave instead of knowing the savior, we will be more lost than ever when it is all done.
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No trees were hurt in the making of this post, but a few electrons were terribly inconvienenced :)
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/20/2008 9:53:24 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: my quivers full
He told her that the word for power was Dunamis which is where we get the word for dynamite from and when dynamite explodes it goes Bam, so to baptise someone in Bam was to baptise them in the Holy Spirit who gives them Dunamis power. BAM!
Two things..
How he said that with a straight face is something that would make even Bill 'Slick Willy' Clinton blush.
And how self-professing Christians in that audience can sit there and nod 'amen' is beyond me.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 1:40:54 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Several come to this post,
post they haven't checked bam-bam out,
and then "side-track" the issues by saying
we aren't politically correct or motivated by love.
I was one of those who ignored this thread.
It didn't have anything to do with me so I didn't
even look out of curiosity. But then one day I
got a call "from Lakeland" about this great meeting
and they wanted to bring it to us.
I remembered this thread and thought it may be
about what is going on down there.
Yes, it takes hours to start from scratch.
Yes, some of it makes you wonder.
Yes, the evidence is laid out for whoever will have open
eyes and hearts.
This thread gave enough "proof" that this was not something
any pastor should expose the flock to.
This thread and the great bereans and watchman provided
enough evidence that ALL my questions about those who had
come and gone and continue to come before Bentley are just
as fraudulent as he is. Just not as blatant.
So, my heartfelt "thanks" to those who have done their homework
and provided whatever is needed for those who are truly searching
for "truth."
To those who could care less of the evidence and wish to attack
the messengers instead. Well, so be it.
If we "reject" the 'TRUTH'; we have no alternative
but to "believe" a 'LIE'.
And also, "we are given bits of truth to pull us away from THE TRUTH."
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 7/21/2008 1:47:30 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 2:24:22 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
This thread gave enough "proof" that this was not something
any pastor should expose the flock to.
I cannot tell you how important it is that you write this. If the pastor of the church where I was exposed to demonic activity had been a man of conscience, I, and many others, would not have had the difficult years that followed.
As it was, when I and my father (I was pretty young) sat in the pastor's office and were asking about the weird goings on, the pastor told us, and I QUOTE "Yes, I know. There seems to be problems wherever he goes."
(the so-called Pentecostal evangelist) When asked why he had invited him anyway, our answer, was this: "Well, there are always crowds of people and I thought it would make the church grow."
So, thank you, to every pastor out there, who prays and studies the Word of God and discerns that what is going on through Todd is not from God. You have done a great service to your congregation.
And your other comment, Lapidoth, about being given 'bits of truth' is very true. It's just like that rat poison equation I have seen on here several times.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 2:27:11 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
This thread gave enough "proof" that this was not something
any pastor should expose the flock to.
I cannot tell you how important it is that you write this. If the pastor of the church where I was exposed to demonic activity had been a man of conscience, I, and many others, would not have had the difficult years that followed.
As it was, when I and my father (I was pretty young) sat in the pastor's office and were asking about the weird goings on, the pastor told us, and I QUOTE "Yes, I know. There seems to be problems wherever he goes."
(the so-called Pentecostal evangelist) When asked why he had invited him anyway, our answer, was this: "Well, there are always crowds of people and I thought it would make the church grow."
So, thank you, to every pastor out there, who prays and studies the Word of God and discerns that what is going on through Todd is not from God. You have done a great service to your congregation.
And your other comment, Lapidoth, about being given 'bits of truth' is very true. It's just like that rat poison equation I have seen on here several times.
I've had the same experiences.
And it does seem to take years some times for the Lord to open our eyes to the truth.
Even those who reject the evidence presented in this thread will one day "remember"
what was said. They may not remember where and who, but they will remember.
If they are "searching for truth." Some will continue following lies to the bitter end
even if one from the dead came back to warn them. "If they won't follow the words
of Moses and the Prophets, they won't believe one from the dead."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 3:50:09 PM
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OldSchoolBeliever
Posts: 18
Joined: 7/21/2008
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Greetings to all. this is my first post ever on these forums but this subject of Todd Bentley is interesting. As an old fashioned or old school Pentecostal the first thing that jumps out at me when I watch the Bentley videos is the word sanctification. Word of faith preachers like Bentley and the audiences who flock to the so called revival seem to want the manifestation and power and annointing but the problem is that the TRUE annointing and power of God is only revealed in lives and believers who are sold out to God, sanctified, repentant and most importantly doers and followers of God's infallible Holy Word. When I see these videos I see so much carnality and things and acts so far from God that anyone with any sense of spiritual discernment or even common sense can see right through the games being played in God's name at Lakeland. The baptism video was the most evident example of the foolishness being shown as being a move of God. I don't know Todd's heart. I don't know if he is being led astray by demonic force or if he is just sincere as he can be yet deceived. But I do know that it cannot be of God. I hope that Todd is able to come to the knowledge of the truth however. He needs prayer. Not prayer to ask for support of his ministry. But prayer that his eyes will be opened to the true Gospel of Christ.
I am a huge believer in the annointing and power of God and I 100 percent believe in healing miracles but this so called revival is another Satanic counterfeit irregardless of whether so called prophets and their commissioning want to endorse Bentley.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 4:17:59 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Todd Bentley the Highly Inaccurate "Prophet"
A Little Leaven
"BOOM-BAH!"
---------------------------------------
How To:
copy me
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 7/21/2008 5:07:24 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 4:20:58 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3605
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
I am a huge believer in the annointing and power of God and I 100 percent believe in healing miracles but this so called revival is another Satanic counterfeit irregardless of whether so called prophets and their commissioning want to endorse Bentley.
Welcome to Crosswalk OldSchoolBeliever.
You are right. Counterfeit in any description.
And IMHO it is obvious that "common sense" is an old school phenomena.
Doesn't seem to be any. Unless we want to re-invent the term to mean
what every one has in common to be common sense. Then, God help us! lol.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 4:21:46 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1769
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LapidothI was one of those who ignored this thread.
It didn't have anything to do with me so I didn't
even look out of curiosity. But then one day I
got a call "from Lakeland" about this great meeting
and they wanted to bring it to us.
They're "shopping" the road show? That's great.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 5:32:42 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6261
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Bob Larsen
Liar and merchandiser of men.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 5:41:05 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2792
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Bob Larsen
This charleten probably needs to be discussed in a seperate thread. Wonder why his "deamons" always comply with FCC quidelines? Could the reason the same people keep showing up is they are part of the show?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 6:02:01 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2792
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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What is Todd's denomination doing about his false teachings? Is he answerable to anyone? (I know he is answerable to God, I mean someone in authority over him?)
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 6:25:30 PM
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OldSchoolBeliever
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Joined: 7/21/2008
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I don't think that he is a member of any mainstream denomination or acts under the auspices of any mainstream denomination. From what I understand he is the leader of the "Freshfire Ministries" organization. So unless that organization has a board of trustees type of setup than Todd is answerable to no one and is basically independent. I could be wrong so someone please correct me if I am.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 7:33:45 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1492
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
What is Todd's denomination doing about his false teachings? Is he answerable to anyone? (I know he is answerable to God, I mean someone in authority over him?)
The church his freak show is affiliated with is Assemblies of God. As usual, the AOG leadership has offered their typical non-cmomittal response to Lakeland.
Bentley does have the support of AoG heretics like John Kilpatrick and Steve Hill
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 8:02:55 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
What is Todd's denomination doing about his false teachings? Is he answerable to anyone? (I know he is answerable to God, I mean someone in authority over him?)
The church his freak show is affiliated with is Assemblies of God. As usual, the AOG leadership has offered their typical non-cmomittal response to Lakeland.
Bentley does have the support of AoG heretics like John Kilpatrick and Steve Hill
The church, Ignited Church is affiliated with A/G, and yes it is true that John Kilpatrick and Steve Hill are both A/G and have actually attended a service and endorsed Todd and what is going on.
But to be fair, Todd is not affiliated anyway with A/G. He doesn't hold papers with them at all. His background is the Toronto blessing, if that helps anybody, but that should let you know that if there is any affiliation with Toronto, they would be in support of what is going on.
I do agree, that the General Council, or the district that Ignited Church is in should investigate what is going on with Scripture, and then do something about it, which I'm of the opinion, they should give Ignited an ultimatum, shut it down, or lose your affiliation.
Like Soxfan said though, they will not do this.
I talked to someone about this the another day that was riding the fence about it. After I showed them all the evidence, he agreed that a lot of what was going on was downright wrong and hype, but yet he just wouldn't come out against Lakeland. The reason, he was afraid if he did, he might miss God!!
I can understand this thinking, as I was raised in this way as well. You had to be careful about things, if you spoke out too much, you just might be speaking out against God. That was the thinking anyway.
The problem is, this isn't New Testament Christianity. Paul took stands against many things going on in the churches he sent his epistles too, as well as individuals like Timothy and Titus.
The one passage people like to quote concerning Lakeland or any other questionable thing is the saying of Gamaliel in the book of Acts. The problem is, they think that Gamaliel was setting up some type of formula for checking moves of God. We often use to quote this passage for that reason.
The problem is, Gamaliel was an unbeliever. so it is not an Holy Spirit inspired formula to use like some people think it is.
If the national leaders of the A/G and other denominations and fellowships do not take stands against it, then the opposition must rise (and is rising for that matter) from the grassroots level of these groups.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 8:32:17 PM
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OldSchoolBeliever
Posts: 18
Joined: 7/21/2008
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The problem is that out of the big three Pentecostal mainstream denominations of the A/G, Church of God(Cleveland) and Pentecostal Holiness that each mainstream denomination has had many members fall for the Bentley type preaching. Especially the A/G and less likely the Pentecostal Holiness. Although my native denomination is Church of God I did attend A/Gs through my military years. I love the A/G and A/G members and there are a tremendous multitude of A/G strong Christians but one thing I noticed was that a lot of younger churchgoers in the Assembly of God had a propensity to be influenced by worldly things. Hence why I believe a lot of young charasmatic A/G churchgoers are falling for John Bentley. And to be fair it is not just A/G young people falling for Bentley. But I use this as an example to illustrate why we may not see the A/G take a stand against Bentley. And again to be fair the Church of God has just become just as bad as far as letting its young people be influenced by these counterfeit revivals. Our only hope is in mainstream preachers such as David wilkerson.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 8:39:06 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OldSchoolBeliever
The problem is that out of the big three Pentecostal mainstream denominations of the A/G, Church of God(Cleveland) and Pentecostal Holiness that each mainstream denomination has had many members fall for the Bentley type preaching. Especially the A/G and less likely the Pentecostal Holiness. Although my native denomination is Church of God I did attend A/Gs through my military years. I love the A/G and A/G members and there are a tremendous multitude of A/G strong Christians but one thing I noticed was that a lot of younger churchgoers in the Assembly of God had a propensity to be influenced by worldly things. Hence why I believe a lot of young charasmatic A/G churchgoers are falling for John Bentley. And to be fair it is not just A/G young people falling for Bentley. But I use this as an example to illustrate why we may not see the A/G take a stand against Bentley. And again to be fair the Church of God has just become just as bad as far as letting its young people be influenced by these counterfeit revivals. Our only hope is in mainstream preachers such as David wilkerson.
I would rather listen to a thousand David Wilkerson sermons over one attempted sermon by Todd Bentley any day.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 8:49:52 PM
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OldSchoolBeliever
Posts: 18
Joined: 7/21/2008
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agreed, dwtramm. Our mainstream denominations IMHO failed to teach core solid sound Pentecostal doctrine to the younger people and I am sorely afraid that the Pentecostal Church world as a whole is paying a price for it now. If the mainstream denominations did not try to exhort the younger generation to be sanctified and rooted in the things of God's Holy Word than no wonder why they will likely sit around and let our younger generation be influenced by people like Todd Bentley.
And let me reinterate that I am not necesarially talking about legalism but rather teaching younger generation and younger adults not to partake of ther world and to abstain from all appearnce of evil.
Pentecostals as a whole are now paying the price for not teaching our younger generation better and as a result we have the Todd Bentleys now.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 9:39:43 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1769
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OldSchoolBeliever
And let me reinterate that I am not necesarially talking about legalism but rather teaching younger generation and younger adults not to partake of ther world and to abstain from all appearnce of evil.
The problem came when the world suddenly embraced the supernatural in a much bigger way than before (although the last couple of decades had seen a gradual build-up) - Harry Potter, Pokemon, Oprah . . New Age went mainstream and suddenly, all these Christians living with one foot in the church and one in the world, couldn't remember which foot was which. Now they're falling for anything remotely spiritual or supernatural with a good face on it and just don't know the difference.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/21/2008 10:02:39 PM
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OldSchoolBeliever
Posts: 18
Joined: 7/21/2008
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Great observation and point csl7037. When I look at Bentleys videos I see so much worldliness. I see young people who indeed are hungry for something spiritual but the sad thing is that it is not the true Godly spiritual annointing and power that would sustain them and help them grow spiritually in God's Word. But rather it is sort of a spiritual fad that will likely not last very long for a lot of them before they are out in the world again away from the Christian life. Instead of being exposed to the Lords living water to where they will never thirst again spiritually they are likely to become the seeds who had no strong roots and therefore had no spiritual life in the end. These revival videos show a carnal, worldliness, confusion and trance producing music that is so totally opposite to the true annointing power of God. And the sad part as many have stated is that many Christians have fell for it. Even a non Christian watching the baptism video would have sense enough to know that it was a mockery to God. And the saddest part is that many of the people attending that revival was sincere only to be exposed to a false gospel. I pray that those sincere people would find a real revival and be blessed. They deserve better.
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