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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 1:44:18 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Right or wrong, we all do that....
if it is wrong then a christian is obligated to overcome that habit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:24:39 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Right or wrong, we all do that....
if it is wrong then a christian is obligated to overcome that habit.
Why? And who says it's a "habit"?
What about the examples? Is it "wrong" to make a conclusion about a person based on what you see on the outside? Why?
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:26:41 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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I see this mindset (or worldview) so often in our world today...more often than not. People would much rather be "right" than accept and acknowledge the truth. So many have "itching ears".
If someone really needs to hear "You're absolutely right" then here it is..."You're absolutely right. There is absolutely no correlation between the outside and the inside of a person. We can look any way we want, we can act any way we want because all that matters is what's inside and it's all about me. It's my body and no one can tell me what to do with it or to it."
There you go. A nice, postmodern, relativistic summation.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:32:57 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1070
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Right or wrong, we all do that....
if it is wrong then a christian is obligated to overcome that habit.
Why? And who says it's a "habit"?
What about the examples? Is it "wrong" to make a conclusion about a person based on what you see on the outside? Why?
why? well let's go back to my statement: "if it's wrong..."
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:39:11 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1070
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
I see this mindset (or worldview) so often in our world today...more often than not. People would much rather be "right" than accept and acknowledge the truth. So many have "itching ears".
If someone really needs to hear "You're absolutely right" then here it is..."You're absolutely right. There is absolutely no correlation between the outside and the inside of a person. We can look any way we want, we can act any way we want because all that matters is what's inside and it's all about me. It's my body and no one can tell me what to do with it or to it."
There you go. A nice, postmodern, relativistic summation.
that's not what i've said at all.
how is clothing one's self with righteousness as an outward sign of your spiritual status, anti biblical? how is that saying we can look and act anyway we want to? how is that relative morality?
reminder, this thread is about tattoos.
certainly some people intentionally make statements with their adornments. this would be categorized as outward behavior. it's not just looks or style.
if this were a thread about tattoos for example, some might choose a tattoo because they consider it stylish or art. some might express rebellion or sin or witchcraft with their tattoos. certainly when one makes a statement whether with spoken words, written words, symbols or art, we can see a glimpse of their heart. this is biblical. our words and behavior reflect the contents of our heart.
the tattoo that is for style/aesthetics is not a glimpse into the heart.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:43:39 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Right or wrong, we all do that....
if it is wrong then a christian is obligated to overcome that habit.
Why? And who says it's a "habit"?
What about the examples? Is it "wrong" to make a conclusion about a person based on what you see on the outside? Why?
why? well let's go back to my statement: "if it's wrong..."
How do we know "if"? (This is all starting to sound familiar!)
Now, as to the rest of my post...
Why? And who says it's a "habit"?
What about the examples? Is it "wrong" to make a conclusion about a person based on what you see on the outside? Why?
Pretend you're in court. Make a successful argument to sway the jury.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:48:50 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1070
Status: offline
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 you said "right or wrong, we all do that." i said, "if it's wrong we are obligated to stop."
i'm not in court and i have based my statements on specific biblical points.
pretend you're the jury and reread the transcripts.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:49:16 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
I see this mindset (or worldview) so often in our world today...more often than not. People would much rather be "right" than accept and acknowledge the truth. So many have "itching ears".
If someone really needs to hear "You're absolutely right" then here it is..."You're absolutely right. There is absolutely no correlation between the outside and the inside of a person. We can look any way we want, we can act any way we want because all that matters is what's inside and it's all about me. It's my body and no one can tell me what to do with it or to it."
There you go. A nice, postmodern, relativistic summation.
that's not what i've said at all.
how is clothing one's self with righteousness as an outward sign of your spiritual status, anti biblical? how is that saying we can look and act anyway we want to? how is that relative morality?
reminder, this thread is about tattoos.
certainly some people intentionally make statements with their adornments. this would be categorized as outward behavior. it's not just looks or style.
if this were a thread about tattoos for example, some might choose a tattoo because they consider it stylish or art. some might express rebellion or sin or witchcraft with their tattoos. certainly when one makes a statement whether with spoken words, written words, symbols or art, we can see a glimpse of their heart. this is biblical. our words and behavior reflect the contents of our heart.
the tattoo that is for style/aesthetics is not a glimpse into the heart.
Could be tattoos, piercings, purple hair, midrif-baring shirts, certain types of jewelry (pentagram pendants, since you mentioned witchcraft), gothic clothing...could be anything at all that someone considers pleasing or artistic.
And clothing oneself with righteousness is not something that can necessarily be seen. We're dealing with actual, physical materials here.
You continue to make the point that the outside (material) has nothing to do with the inside (belief and attitude, et al). How can this be so for a Christian?
< Message edited by Peter_Gunn -- 6/13/2008 3:49:40 PM >
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 2:54:33 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1070
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you're not reading my posts carefully. you're jumping to conclusions. i addressed symbols etc.
it has been argued in this thread that if not for our physical appearance, looks, style, we can not look godly because people can't see inside.
we have something else visible to the naked eye. our behavior. the fruit of the spirit, the audible words of our mouths etc.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 3:44:51 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
you're not reading my posts carefully. you're jumping to conclusions. i addressed symbols etc.
it has been argued in this thread that if not for our physical appearance, looks, style, we can not look godly because people can't see inside.
we have something else visible to the naked eye. our behavior. the fruit of the spirit, the audible words of our mouths etc.
Okay...you're right.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/13/2008 5:31:37 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1714
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
Right or wrong, we all do that.
Well, if we want to be like God wants us to be, it's wrong.
James 2:1-4.
quote:
If you see a guy walking around with a ladies handbag and wearing lipstick, do you make any kind of pre-judgement about him?
Depends on the context. I might assume he's going to a costume party. Either way, I would see another creation of God who may not have ever seen the love of Christ, and it is my duty and command to show that love to him.
quote:
If you see a female in public wearing a very short skirt and a very low cut blouse and very obviously no bra, what kind of conclusion do you come to?
I would conclude that, personally, she's someone I would need to stay away from - but only because of my weakness, heh. Again, though, her outward character would indicate that she needs to be shown Christ's love.
I hope I haven't given you the impression that I believe our outward appearance is completely removed from our internal character. Certainly not! But, at lot of things many people label as being "immoral" for outward adornment really are not.
Some in this thread make tattoos out to be a sign of ungodliness, and certainly they can be. Another poster gave the example of a tattoo depicting a nude woman, and certainly that is not glorifying to God. However, there are many tattoos people can get that are either neutral (I don't think God would be displeased if we got a lizard on our ankle, as a random example), or indeed, some could even be a witnessing tool (I again refer back to my friend who got "It Was For Freedom That Christ Set Us Free", in the Greek, on his wrists). If what you are concerned about is the outward demonstrating the inward, then I would say that tattoos can be used to reflect the good and the bad, and should not be treated as a universally negative thing.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/17/2008 10:09:09 AM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Okay. Did she maybe appreciate the tattoo art that she saw in the parlor, though, when she went with you?
Take care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Nope.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/17/2008 11:31:22 PM
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spdrgrl.603
Posts: 69
Joined: 6/16/2008
From: Dallas, Texas originally
Status: offline
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this is a hefty subject. this and abortion. i have three tattoos. an angle on my lower back, jesus with a psalm on my left arm, and a half sleeve of jesus pulling perter from the water with god descending on jesus as a dove (see in the bible when jesus was baptized). i believe that as long as the tattoos have no heathen gods (like egyptian), anything evil (like satan or demons. this would damage our spirit), or tattoos of departed loved ones (morning for the dead) it is okay. my tattoos are inspirational psalms and scenes from the bible.
now onto the most used verses.... lets skip leviticus. i want to go to the other most used verse of corinthians. verse from -1 Corinthians 6:19-20 “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.” Non- tattooed Christians don’t hesitate to make the connection to tattoos and avoid seeing it in its full context. There was a new community of Christians developing in Corinth and the new Christians were of pagan origin. St. Paul was warning them of the dangerous practices of their pagan neighbors who used ritual prostitutes to celebrate the Greek Goddess of Love, Aphrodite. During St. Paul’s time, ritual prostitutes were a common practice that had to be abolished. St. Paul wrote to Corinthians stating that we belong to God, brought about through His son Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, and the deadly sin of subjecting to false Gods through ritual prostitutes. Sexual immorality is a sin against the body which houses the Holy Spirit and is a direct sin against God.
christians back then also tattooed small crosses on their wrists so no one when they died could deny them a christian burial. we could go on but the subject of tattooes in biblical history goes waaaayyy back. i have to look it up sometime but i remember reading that one of the saints had a christian tattoo on his upper thigh.
in his name, Amen.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/20/2008 10:44:36 AM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
What I find interesting is that those that are quoting the Levitical law refuse to address the issue of whether they keep all Levitical law or just those that strike them as appropriate.
...
--Kat
It also says in the Leviticus passage about men not trimming their beards. I'm wondering whether the context is Old Testament Jews in the land, under the law.
But I do think that whatever it is, if the association is compromising to the faith, better avoid it.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/26/2008 7:01:50 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1488
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
What I find interesting is that those that are quoting the Levitical law refuse to address the issue of whether they keep all Levitical law or just those that strike them as appropriate.
...
--Kat
I keep as much as I can. Now, by the same token, do those who say Ha Torah does not apply throw out the whole Torah or just those parts that strike them as inappropriate. If one does not recognize an explicit command about something that is clearly identifiable, what is to be recognized and on what basis?
There is a place to discuss this issue in general. So, let's try to keep it in the context of the OP. Marking one's body, apart from an ear ring to identify a slave for life, is clearly forbidden. So, what makes this commandment different from others that many wish to inforce, such as the tithes.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 6/26/2008 7:08:26 PM >
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/26/2008 7:39:12 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1714
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
So, what makes this commandment different from others that many wish to inforce, such as the tithes.
Heh, that would be opening a whole can of worms that I will leave alone... Suffice to say, I believe that anyone who tries to enforce a concept found in the Old Testament alone (such as a prohibition on tattoos, or tithes) is forcing others to live under their own personal legalism. I have no problem with such individuals following these rules themselves. It only becomes an issue when they take those rules and say all other Christians must live by them as well.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/26/2008 10:39:51 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Sorry, I don't believe in tithes for today either. Period.
They were still in being in Malachi, clearly. But where are the Levites, to whom the tithes were supposed to be given, nowadays?
Ah, clergy will rush in and say, that's us. Really? I thought that in Acts 20, the elders and teachers whom Paul exhorted were in a plurality in that local congregation in Ephesus, and in no way a continuity from Levites.
But I would add this: if people are motivated to give MORE than one tenth even of their income as freewill offerings, then more power to them.
But in the New Testament I don't see more than freewill offerings; I certainly don't see tithes. (But of couse vested ecclesiatical interests have to argue otherwise, and draw from the legalism which is indeed a carry-over from the Old Testament.)
This whole question does open up rather divergent attitudes about what it means to be under grace or under law.
So that is generally what I meant by mentioning that one will end up perpetuating things like not trimming beards. The tattoo thing I guess can be a catalyst for divergent hermeneutic (interpretational) approaches.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
What I find interesting is that those that are quoting the Levitical law refuse to address the issue of whether they keep all Levitical law or just those that strike them as appropriate.
...
--Kat
I keep as much as I can. Now, by the same token, do those who say Ha Torah does not apply throw out the whole Torah or just those parts that strike them as inappropriate. If one does not recognize an explicit command about something that is clearly identifiable, what is to be recognized and on what basis?
There is a place to discuss this issue in general. So, let's try to keep it in the context of the OP. Marking one's body, apart from an ear ring to identify a slave for life, is clearly forbidden. So, what makes this commandment different from others that many wish to inforce, such as the tithes.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/26/2008 10:54:40 PM
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Kath
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Please do not turn this thread into one about Tithing. We have a one stop for that, which I have linked for you below.
Tithe and Offerings:
Click Here
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns allowing time for a response during normal business hours.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/27/2008 8:36:10 AM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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WesP
quote:
A pastor cannot run around with a tattoo of a naked woman on one arm and be a Christ-like example very effectively. By the same token, one cannot say that a pastor is living in sin because he has a tattoo of a cross on his arm.
I know of men who have been converted having such tattoos and have then had clothes tattooed onto the figure for the sake of modesty.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/27/2008 4:58:18 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Wes:
Oh okay.
Anyway, some men like to say that they won't date a lady with a tattoo.
And some ladies like to say that they won't date a man with one.
(And then of course a nice person comes along who is a Christian and...)
Do you, or have you any thoughts on whether the other person having a tat might influence you?
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
Actually, I have never had a tattoo. I do not think one will send you straight to hell - do not pass go, but I think they should be presentable if one becomes a Christian. I don't think they need to be removed.
< Message edited by faroukfarouk -- 6/27/2008 5:08:58 PM >
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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