RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide....
View related threads:
(in this forum
| in all forums)
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 9:49:07 AM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Unlike yourself I am not going to vote for someone who support the murder of unborn children...
John
Gonna sit this one out, then?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 9:52:26 AM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Another lie. For all of John McCain's shortcomings, his stance on the issue of life is not one of them...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 11:36:12 AM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7836
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
|
quote:
McCain's position is not only late in arriving, but is not quite as decisively pro-life as many of his boosters would like to present it:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain_Abortion.htm
The primary concern with abortion at this point is with the courts, and McCain has been clear about the kind of justices he would apoint.
But even if one wasn't happy with McCain's stance on abortion, such feelings certainly wouldn't lead one to vote for Barak Obama instead, who is decidely worse.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 12:24:43 PM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
McCain's position is not only late in arriving, but is not quite as decisively pro-life as many of his boosters would like to present it:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain_Abortion.htm
Don't believe it. Not once did your source identify a single pro-choice vote cast by McCain. But they did error with this false headling: "Voted YES on allowing partial birth abortions."
Anyone who follows this stuff knows that a yes vote was to permit the banning of partial birth abortions.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 5:39:51 PM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
McCain's position is not only late in arriving, but is not quite as decisively pro-life as many of his boosters would like to present it:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain_Abortion.htm
Don't believe it. Not once did your source identify a single pro-choice vote cast by McCain. But they did error with this false headling: "Voted YES on allowing partial birth abortions."
Anyone who follows this stuff knows that a yes vote was to permit the banning of partial birth abortions.
Interesting that you would point out that the linked article did not identify " single pro-choice vote cast by McCain", since the article ames no effort to talk about his voting record AT ALL, but rather his stated public positions. IOW, the objection is irrelevant to the point of being a sideshow.
AS to the actual substance of the article, and despite McCain's desire to be preceived NOW as a hard-line opponent of abortion his whole political career, he has clearly taken and publicly stated his belief in EXCEPTIONS to the abortion ban - for incest, or the health of the mother, or for rape, and he didn't require any actual proof of rape, for that matter. He has publicly stated that he didn't see any reason to overturn Roe v Wade. He has stated and STILL states that he would not favor prosecuting a woman for seeking an illegal abortion.
All of these indicate the validity of one of my original statements - that McCains history AND his current position are not as rigidly anti-abortion anti-Roe v Wade as some of his supporters would like the public to believe.
He may have changed those positions over the (recent) years, but that would merely indicate the validity of the other part of my original statement - that McCain is new to the position of an outright ban.
So like I said - and for which you have offered no valid rebuttal - McCain is both wishy-washy (pandering) and a (pun intended) johnnie-come-lately to his current (stated) position.
He may be closer to what the pro-life position wants in a candidate than is Obama - but don't kid yourself that the legality of abortion is going to vanish anytime during McCain's term.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 5:50:15 PM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7836
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
|
quote:
Interesting that you would point out that the linked article did not identify " single pro-choice vote cast by McCain", since the article ames no effort to talk about his voting record AT ALL, but rather his stated public positions. IOW, the objection is irrelevant to the point of being a sideshow.
AS to the actual substance of the article, and despite McCain's desire to be preceived NOW as a hard-line opponent of abortion his whole political career, he has clearly taken and publicly stated his belief in EXCEPTIONS to the abortion ban - for incest, or the health of the mother, or for rape, and he didn't require any actual proof of rape, for that matter. He has publicly stated that he didn't see any reason to overturn Roe v Wade. He has stated and STILL states that he would not favor prosecuting a woman for seeking an illegal abortion.
All of these indicate the validity of one of my original statements - that McCains history AND his current position are not as rigidly anti-abortion anti-Roe v Wade as some of his supporters would like the public to believe.
He may have changed those positions over the (recent) years, but that would merely indicate the validity of the other part of my original statement - that McCain is new to the position of an outright ban.
So like I said - and for which you have offered no valid rebuttal - McCain is both wishy-washy (pandering) and a (pun intended) johnnie-come-lately to his current (stated) position.
He may be closer to what the pro-life position wants in a candidate than is Obama - but don't kid yourself that the legality of abortion is going to vanish anytime during McCain's term.
Actually, he couldn't make it 'vanish' if he dedicated his whole presidency to it - it's in the court's hands, and will be for decades. And that is an even stronger reason to support McCain over Obama - either will determine the balance of the courts, and McCain has consistently supported conservative justices.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 5:58:13 PM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
McCain's position is not only late in arriving, but is not quite as decisively pro-life as many of his boosters would like to present it:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain_Abortion.htm
Don't believe it. Not once did your source identify a single pro-choice vote cast by McCain. But they did error with this false headling: "Voted YES on allowing partial birth abortions."
Anyone who follows this stuff knows that a yes vote was to permit the banning of partial birth abortions.
Interesting that you would point out that the linked article did not identify " single pro-choice vote cast by McCain", since the article ames no effort to talk about his voting record AT ALL, but rather his stated public positions. IOW, the objection is irrelevant to the point of being a sideshow.
AS to the actual substance of the article, and despite McCain's desire to be preceived NOW as a hard-line opponent of abortion his whole political career, he has clearly taken and publicly stated his belief in EXCEPTIONS to the abortion ban - for incest, or the health of the mother, or for rape, and he didn't require any actual proof of rape, for that matter. He has publicly stated that he didn't see any reason to overturn Roe v Wade. He has stated and STILL states that he would not favor prosecuting a woman for seeking an illegal abortion.
All of these indicate the validity of one of my original statements - that McCains history AND his current position are not as rigidly anti-abortion anti-Roe v Wade as some of his supporters would like the public to believe.
He may have changed those positions over the (recent) years, but that would merely indicate the validity of the other part of my original statement - that McCain is new to the position of an outright ban.
So like I said - and for which you have offered no valid rebuttal - McCain is both wishy-washy (pandering) and a (pun intended) johnnie-come-lately to his current (stated) position.
He may be closer to what the pro-life position wants in a candidate than is Obama - but don't kid yourself that the legality of abortion is going to vanish anytime during McCain's term.
Go back and read more carefully. There are footnotes with links to some of his voting record, none of which are pro-choice.
Back up the talk and show me the pro-abortion votes he's cast. You may find one or two in his decades served, but that will be overwhelmed by scores of pro-life votes.
To say that he "may be closer to...pro-life...than Obama," is the understatement of the year. That's about the same as saying he may be closer to a war hero than Obama.
It would be hard to find a politican more pro-abortion than B.O. While in the IL legislature he tried to kill a bill to protect children who survive abortion attempts. How much sicker than that can you get?
< Message edited by ljmac -- 8/12/2008 11:22:40 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 8:06:00 PM
|
|
|
Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
1) Take it easy, John -
Be honest when quoting me...
quote:
And, John, I consider myself pro-life,
That's nice, but it's not so... You are for some abortions and you have said you are willing to vote for those who are for abortion...
quote:
And, what bliss! You can sit on your soapbox and not disclose whom you're voting for - how convenient!  You're a sly one, there, John!
I recall you not disclosing who you are going to vote for when asked so excuse me if I ignore all the silly talk posting simply to divert attention away...
John
John,
1) Let me get this straight - you clip quotes from people all of the time - case in point, this clipping that you're doing right now - and you're calling me on this? How can you, when you do it in most of the posts that I have seen?!
2) See - you clipped out the rest of what I said - no surprise to me - which is, if you think my stance is not pro-life - that abortions be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest, mothers life endangered - then neither is GWB's and neither is McCain's.
3) I already said it's between McCain or Obama - you have not even disclosed anything, really - yet you find it convenient to criticize those that do come out and say whom you are voting for, or thinking of voting for. Again, John, it's easy to criticize when you do not take a position yourself. I don't know why you're afraid to disclose this.
Peace and God bless,
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 8:08:36 PM
|
|
|
Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Interesting that you would point out that the linked article did not identify " single pro-choice vote cast by McCain", since the article ames no effort to talk about his voting record AT ALL, but rather his stated public positions. IOW, the objection is irrelevant to the point of being a sideshow.
AS to the actual substance of the article, and despite McCain's desire to be preceived NOW as a hard-line opponent of abortion his whole political career, he has clearly taken and publicly stated his belief in EXCEPTIONS to the abortion ban - for incest, or the health of the mother, or for rape, and he didn't require any actual proof of rape, for that matter. He has publicly stated that he didn't see any reason to overturn Roe v Wade. He has stated and STILL states that he would not favor prosecuting a woman for seeking an illegal abortion.
All of these indicate the validity of one of my original statements - that McCains history AND his current position are not as rigidly anti-abortion anti-Roe v Wade as some of his supporters would like the public to believe.
He may have changed those positions over the (recent) years, but that would merely indicate the validity of the other part of my original statement - that McCain is new to the position of an outright ban.
So like I said - and for which you have offered no valid rebuttal - McCain is both wishy-washy (pandering) and a (pun intended) johnnie-come-lately to his current (stated) position.
He may be closer to what the pro-life position wants in a candidate than is Obama - but don't kid yourself that the legality of abortion is going to vanish anytime during McCain's term.
Actually, he couldn't make it 'vanish' if he dedicated his whole presidency to it - it's in the court's hands, and will be for decades. And that is an even stronger reason to support McCain over Obama - either will determine the balance of the courts, and McCain has consistently supported conservative justices.
Really?!
Why didn't you answer my post #90? To make it more convenient, I'll re-post my answer:
Well, I think you're the one muddling here, Jack.
If Roberts is so desirable with overturning RVW, why did he say this:
"ROBERTS: "I think the initial question for the judge confronting an issue in this area, you don't go straight to the Roe decision. You begin with Casey, which modified the Roe framework and reaffirmed its central holding."
You know, Casey v PP - the case where Reagan-appointed Kennedy had the deciding vote to overturn RVW, and did not - Roberts is saying that this reaffirmed RVWs central holding.
And why didn't you address McCain's remarks?:
"Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions
McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000 "
http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/John_McCain_Abortion.htm
On the Gang of 14 - I quoted Bob Barr as saying:
"... Mr. McCain is a convenient convert to the cause of sound judicial appointments. He has never paid much attention to judicial philosophy, backing both Clinton Supreme Court nominees – Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He also participated in the so-called "Gang of 14," which favored centrist over conservative nominees as part of a compromise between President George W. Bush and Senate Democrats. ... "
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121625042990560111.html
Why don't you address this?
And for goodness sake, the Democrats did not fillibuster Roberts or Alito - doesn't that say something - either that Roberts and Alito are not conservative, or that the Democrats - you know, the ones with the majority rule in Congress - don't they deserve some recognition with these, in your mind, 'conservative' appointments.
Peace and God bless,
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 8:17:54 PM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7836
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
|
quote:
Why didn't you answer my post #90? To make it more convenient, I'll re-post my answer:
I did answer it, in post 88 (amazing, I answered it before you asked it)
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 9:37:51 PM
|
|
|
Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Why didn't you answer my post #90? To make it more convenient, I'll re-post my answer:
I did answer it, in post 88 (amazing, I answered it before you asked it)
Well, to me, it's saying - you must consider Obama's past record, but, surely do not bother considering McCain's past record, statements on abortion. I feel I have supported this enough with my sources - please respond to them, point by point. Thank you in advance.
Peace and God bless,
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 10:43:27 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
1) Let me get this straight - you clip quotes from people all of the time - case in point, this clipping that you're doing right now - and you're calling me on this? How can you, when you do it in most of the posts that I have seen?!
You misquoted me... You didn't quote my entire response in attempt to change what I said or to make it like I didn't say what I did... Clipping a post is something different... We can go around and around on abortion, but I don't take kindly to being misquoted...
quote:
2) See - you clipped out the rest of what I said -
I responded to your claim.... I didn't misquote you... Clear difference...
quote:
no surprise to me - which is, if you think my stance is not pro-life - that abortions be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest, mothers life endangered - then neither is GWB's and neither is McCain's.
I don't believe a stance that abortion in the case of rape, incest, and mothers life endangered is OK is pro-life... Anyone who believes the child of a rape deserves death has issues... Especially given the most of the same folks wouldn't even consider the father getting the death penalty for the rape... There is no biblical support for that whatsoever...
quote:
3) I already said it's between McCain or Obama - you have not even disclosed anything, really - yet you find it convenient to criticize those that do come out and say whom you are voting for, or thinking of voting for. Again, John, it's easy to criticize when you do not take a position yourself. I don't know why you're afraid to disclose this.
I have a position and its pretty clear and I don't believe it's simply between McCain and Obama... So your talk of me being afraid is unfounded and simply more silly talk to divert attention....
As well... I don't have to even vote to make the point that support for abortion isn't compatible with a walk with Christ....
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 11:36:41 PM
|
|
|
Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
1) Let me get this straight - you clip quotes from people all of the time - case in point, this clipping that you're doing right now - and you're calling me on this? How can you, when you do it in most of the posts that I have seen?!
You misquoted me... You didn't quote my entire response in attempt to change what I said or to make it like I didn't say what I did... Clipping a post is something different... We can go around and around on abortion, but I don't take kindly to being misquoted...
quote:
2) See - you clipped out the rest of what I said -
I responded to your claim.... I didn't misquote you... Clear difference...
quote:
no surprise to me - which is, if you think my stance is not pro-life - that abortions be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest, mothers life endangered - then neither is GWB's and neither is McCain's.
I don't believe a stance that abortion in the case of rape, incest, and mothers life endangered is OK is pro-life... Anyone who believes the child of a rape deserves death has issues... Especially given the most of the same folks wouldn't even consider the father getting the death penalty for the rape... There is no biblical support for that whatsoever...
quote:
3) I already said it's between McCain or Obama - you have not even disclosed anything, really - yet you find it convenient to criticize those that do come out and say whom you are voting for, or thinking of voting for. Again, John, it's easy to criticize when you do not take a position yourself. I don't know why you're afraid to disclose this.
I have a position and its pretty clear and I don't believe it's simply between McCain and Obama... So your talk of me being afraid is unfounded and simply more silly talk to divert attention....
As well... I don't have to even vote to make the point that support for abortion isn't compatible with a walk with Christ....
John
John,
1) & 2) I didn't misquote you & you know it - I took part of your quote - anyone can plainly see this, and you have done this before, numerous times.
2) Well, GWB, McCain and I share this stance.
3) Well, there you have an inkling... and quite honestly, I don't really care.
Anyway, Peace and God bless,
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 11:54:38 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
John,
1) & 2) I didn't misquote you & you know it - I took part of your quote - anyone can plainly see this, and you have done this before, numerous times.
You response to the partial quote was as if what you removed wasn't there... So, yes you misquoted me... And I don't do what you did...
quote:
2) Well, GWB, McCain and I share this stance.
Any stance that says the child of a rape should be put to death isn't pro-life...
As well you don't have an issue with Obama's stance...
quote:
3) Well, there you have an inkling... and quite honestly, I don't really care.
I have a clear stance on the position, unlike yourself... And I do care... Being the vast difference between us...
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/12/2008 11:59:42 PM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7836
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
|
quote:
Well, to me, it's saying - you must consider Obama's past record, but, surely do not bother considering McCain's past record, statements on abortion. I feel I have supported this enough with my sources - please respond to them, point by point. Thank you in advance.
I am really not concerned with cherry picked statements by either candidate, simply what judicial philosophy they base their appointment of judges on. That is all that is important when considering judicial issues. I agree with McCain's view on judges, and disagree with Obama's.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/13/2008 7:27:09 AM
|
|
|
Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
John,
1) & 2) I didn't misquote you & you know it - I took part of your quote - anyone can plainly see this, and you have done this before, numerous times.
You response to the partial quote was as if what you removed wasn't there... So, yes you misquoted me... And I don't do what you did...
quote:
2) Well, GWB, McCain and I share this stance.
Any stance that says the child of a rape should be put to death isn't pro-life...
As well you don't have an issue with Obama's stance...
quote:
3) Well, there you have an inkling... and quite honestly, I don't really care.
I have a clear stance on the position, unlike yourself... And I do care... Being the vast difference between us...
John
John,
1) You have partial-posted, partial-quoted other people many times, including me - no matter how many times you try to say you do not. I have only called you on it once - remember? Post #76 of this very thread. It's blatantly obvious it's 2 partial quotes, because on one of them, there is a hyphen at the end of my quote (which you partial quoted - and in your mind, then, misquoted). And you do know that periods come at the end of sentences, I would assume. But, wait - you'll dream up some excuse. And on the other one - my quote starts with a lower case - hence not the start of my original statment. So, you misquoted me twice in that one post. I can pull up many other examples as well. And, all one needs to do is look at at posts of yours, John. Please, be real.
2) Well, I believe in abortion ONLY in cases of rape, incest, mother's life endangered - like GWB and McCain have both publicly stated is their stance. Obama's stance is different - he believes abortions should be made available no matter what - which is why I did not bring it up. I mean, why would I? Especially given that the topic is McCain's stance. If you don't believe me, John, take a look at the title of the thread
3) I meant that I don't really care whom you are voting for.
Peace and God bless,
< Message edited by Lizahana -- 8/13/2008 7:57:13 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/13/2008 7:32:04 AM
|
|
|
Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Well, to me, it's saying - you must consider Obama's past record, but, surely do not bother considering McCain's past record, statements on abortion. I feel I have supported this enough with my sources - please respond to them, point by point. Thank you in advance.
I am really not concerned with cherry picked statements by either candidate, simply what judicial philosophy they base their appointment of judges on. That is all that is important when considering judicial issues. I agree with McCain's view on judges, and disagree with Obama's.
I see - so are you saying that people should consider Obama's history, but not McCains history on SCJ appointments? Wouldn't you say that is unfair, Jack?
McCain supported both of Clinton's SCJ appointments. That is his history. McCain is co-leader of the 'Gang of 14' whose purpose is to pick centrist SCJs - a common fact - at least among those who have read about it - please see the Bob Barr comment saying the same. That is his history. To say that one must not consider the aforementioned is ridiculous.
And, if you're going to bring up Roberts and Alito again, you must also consider that it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that put them in the seats of the SC.
Peace and God bless,
< Message edited by Lizahana -- 8/13/2008 7:40:04 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/13/2008 9:10:34 AM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Well, to me, it's saying - you must consider Obama's past record, but, surely do not bother considering McCain's past record, statements on abortion. I feel I have supported this enough with my sources - please respond to them, point by point. Thank you in advance.
I am really not concerned with cherry picked statements by either candidate, simply what judicial philosophy they base their appointment of judges on. That is all that is important when considering judicial issues. I agree with McCain's view on judges, and disagree with Obama's.
I see - so are you saying that people should consider Obama's history, but not McCains history on SCJ appointments? Wouldn't you say that is unfair, Jack?
McCain supported both of Clinton's SCJ appointments. That is his history. McCain is co-leader of the 'Gang of 14' whose purpose is to pick centrist SCJs - a common fact - at least among those who have read about it - please see the Bob Barr comment saying the same. That is his history. To say that one must not consider the aforementioned is ridiculous.
And, if you're going to bring up Roberts and Alito again, you must also consider that it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that put them in the seats of the SC.
Peace and God bless,
See, like I've been saying all along, on this issue the dichotomy between the two major candidates is not nearly as good v evil as the McCain boosters would like to pretend that it is.
The problem here is not that the issue is, like most issues, 'shades of grey', but that the McCain-at-all-costs crowd can't bring themselves to support their candidate without commiting "inductive fallacy - fallacy of exclusion". IOW, they are kidding themselves, and they seem disturbed when the rest of us don't accept their flawed *rationale*.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/13/2008 1:26:01 PM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7836
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
|
quote:
I see - so are you saying that people should consider Obama's history, but not McCains history on SCJ appointments? Wouldn't you say that is unfair, Jack?
No, I am saying that people should consider what sort of justices Obama says he will appoint, and what sort of justices McCain says he will support – as I have said consistently on this issue.
quote:
McCain supported both of Clinton's SCJ appointments. That is his history. McCain is co-leader of the 'Gang of 14' whose purpose is to pick centrist SCJs - a common fact - at least among those who have read about it - please see the Bob Barr comment saying the same. That is his history. To say that one must not consider the aforementioned is ridiculous.
McCain (along with all but three Senators) voted for Clinton’s appointees yes. And to be quite honest, this is one of my disappointments with the Republicans – they have a different notion of ‘advise and consent’ than do the Democrats. Generally Repubs. Have held that a President gets to appoint whomever they like, and barring some obvious ethical or capability deficiency, the Senate should support. Democrats on the other hand do not believe a President should appoint anyone with whom they disagree politically, and will pull any dirty stunt they can to defeat appointments they disagree with. In this I wish the Republicans were more like Democrats.
quote:
And, if you're going to bring up Roberts and Alito again, you must also consider that it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that put them in the seats of the SC.
Actually, you have your facts wrong – the Republicans were in control of both houses when they were appointed in 2005.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/13/2008 6:15:03 PM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Well, to me, it's saying - you must consider Obama's past record, but, surely do not bother considering McCain's past record, statements on abortion. I feel I have supported this enough with my sources - please respond to them, point by point. Thank you in advance.
I am really not concerned with cherry picked statements by either candidate, simply what judicial philosophy they base their appointment of judges on. That is all that is important when considering judicial issues. I agree with McCain's view on judges, and disagree with Obama's.
I see - so are you saying that people should consider Obama's history, but not McCains history on SCJ appointments? Wouldn't you say that is unfair, Jack?
McCain supported both of Clinton's SCJ appointments. That is his history. McCain is co-leader of the 'Gang of 14' whose purpose is to pick centrist SCJs - a common fact - at least among those who have read about it - please see the Bob Barr comment saying the same. That is his history. To say that one must not consider the aforementioned is ridiculous.
And, if you're going to bring up Roberts and Alito again, you must also consider that it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that put them in the seats of the SC.
Peace and God bless,
See, like I've been saying all along, on this issue the dichotomy between the two major candidates is not nearly as good v evil as the McCain boosters would like to pretend that it is.
The problem here is not that the issue is, like most issues, 'shades of grey', but that the McCain-at-all-costs crowd can't bring themselves to support their candidate without commiting "inductive fallacy - fallacy of exclusion". IOW, they are kidding themselves, and they seem disturbed when the rest of us don't accept their flawed *rationale*.
Many people, typically Democrats, also found slavery to be a grey area.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John McCain: Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion? You decide.... - 8/13/2008 8:14:10 PM
|
|
|
Lizahana
Posts: 1119
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
, (so he changed his mind since then) but I think he even is against abortion now in cases of rape, incest, and endangerment of the mother as of now... 