EX Con (Full Version)

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Amansrib -> EX Con (7/3/2008 11:21:22 PM)

Did Jesus appoint an Ex Con to be a disciple? I'm being taunted by a Deacon at my church who says Ex Con's should not be Leaders and definitely not Deacons? He says no where in the Bible Jesus appointed Ex Cons. At my church the Pastor appointed a no diploma, Ex Con to be a Deacon. However, this man is faithful attends every service; carries the pastors books and they are very close. I thought every ministry wants faithful servants with a sincere heart to please God, even if the only book they'll read is the Bible.



lightshineon -> RE: EX Con (7/3/2008 11:33:38 PM)

The one that taunts does not understand grace. Yes Jesus appointed Matthew a tax collector a crook, he left his station and followed Jesus. Ley us not forget Paul the murderer of Christians. Those who have been forgiven much love much.



Amansrib -> RE: EX Con (7/3/2008 11:50:03 PM)

Thank you for your reply. Ahhh I thank God for Grace, it is sufficient!



lightshineon -> RE: EX Con (7/3/2008 11:54:16 PM)

Your welcome, Amazing Grace.[:D]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Amansrib

Thank you for your reply. Ahhh I thank God for Grace, it is sufficient!



rcjames -> RE: EX Con (7/4/2008 11:49:04 AM)

After a thorough reading of the qualification of leadership; I cannot find where ex-cons are disqualified.

The only thing that comes close is for the office of Bishop;

(1Ti 3:7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

But this does not disqualify an ex-con, and I have known many who do have a good reputation in the community in spite of a stumble in the past.

Thsnks
RC



lightshineon -> RE: EX Con (7/4/2008 11:59:25 AM)

(LOL) True the apostle Paul being the most famous. Along with the sons a Thunder, and Matthew the Thief and tax collector. The old man is gone when someone is born agian crucified with Christ. [:D]
quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

After a thorough reading of the qualification of leadership; I cannot find where ex-cons are disqualified.

The only thing that comes close is for the office of Bishop;

(1Ti 3:7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

But this does not disqualify an ex-con, and I have known many who do have a good reputation in the community in spite of a stumble in the past.

Thsnks
RC



Machaira -> RE: EX Con (7/4/2008 1:33:19 PM)

Amansrib,

Have you brought this situation with the self-righteous Deacon to the Pastor? I believe this man needs to be admonished and corrected. As it has already been demonstrated by lightshineon and rcjames, there is no basis for the Deacon's arrogance.



colliefan -> RE: EX Con (7/4/2008 3:11:15 PM)

As one experienced in prison ministry several questions:

How long has the guy been out of prison?

Has he expressed remorse over the actions that led him to prison?

Did the pastor follow up on his pastors (aka, chaplains) that were over him while he was in prison?

I his understanding of the Word in line with your church's doctrine?

Is he teachable? Can he teach the Word?

What is relationship with his family?

Has he paid all court demanded restitution?

For some, it takes prison to know the depths of one's depravity. And from that depth, they know the measure of God's restoring grace.



jn1010lf -> RE: EX Con (7/4/2008 8:46:01 PM)

Hello Amansrib

I am amazed that such a question is being asked. Do you not know that Paul was a murderer before his enounter with the Lord while on the road to Damascus? And what about the tax collector, the worst of turn coat Jews? And what about David; an adulterer and murder? Are you not aware that his blood line led to Jesus, the man?

Since this question has been asked, I would wonder if your church believes that the Holy Spirit working in one's life changes his spots.



Amansrib -> RE: EX Con (7/5/2008 2:52:46 PM)

Thank you all for your replies. The Deacons point is Paul was not an Ex Con when Jesus appointed him. If so, he says there is nothing in scripture to support it. The real issue is what Colliefan wrote. He was appointed and not thoroughly processed. Meaning the Pastor knew that people would not vote for him. This leads to my next post...

Dictionary
1. A person found or declared guilty of an offense or crime.
2. A person serving a sentence of imprisonment.



colliefan -> RE: EX Con (7/5/2008 3:09:17 PM)

On a related issue, it IS the job of the church to help ex-offenders assimilate into society. Many churches want to "do" prison ministry, but too few are ready to meet them at the door when they are released.

For the most part, prison doesn't help one address the emotional issues that led them to prison. This may sound heretical, but simply praying a salvation prayer doesn't cut it as there are anger, forgiveness, bitterness issues that must be address.

At the womens prison where I minister there is one chaplain for 1200 women. At the mens prison, there are two chaplains for 1000 men. State-paid counselors, by law, cannot bring in any spiritual counsel.

When released an ex-offender must find housing. There are some transitional homes by they are few and far between. They must find jobs. They must find transportation. Must learn how to manage their money. And they must find Godly friends and a mentor to keep them accountable.

If after a transitional period an ex-offender has demonstrated that true change has occured, then a position in the church is warrented and can be a genuine proof of how a person can be changed by the grace of God.
Remember than cons are good at conning people, even themselves.



SteelCurtain -> RE: EX Con (7/5/2008 3:39:09 PM)

While I agree that an Ex-Con should not be disqualifed from ministry I believe we have to take into account of why he/she was in prison to begin with and be sure that there is sufficient time in between the crime/sin and getting back involved in ministry.

I know that I'm splitting hairs here in terms of what crime/sins disqualify one from ministry but I think we would agree that a child molestor should never be allowed to work in children's ministry again. I am one who stumbled four years ago and have yet to find a full time ministry position but it's not without trying and with GREAT support from the AG. It's just that no doors have opened yet.

To be honest, I believe that some of the most successful pastors or lay leaders are those who have publicly fallen and have truly experienced the grace and mercry of God. It takes the ego out of ministry.



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