RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/11/2008 11:55:19 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
All this says to me: Love is often blind, and it is a good idea to listen to friends and family in your life who love you if they have a concern about the person you are dating. It could be easy to be defensive at first, but usually people are only looking out for you, and better to break up than to go through misery.
Really?
When I was in college, I met a young woman and we fell in love. We dated for over a year and were talking marriage, even after she started taking classes at Ohio U. and we were carrying our relationship on over a long distance. Everything was great, except that several members of her friends in the baptist student union at her college didn't approve of our relationship because of me. I wasn't a baptist; instead I was Catholic.
At the same time, these friends of her's knew of a guy in the B.S.U. that was interested in becoming a pastor AND interested in her. They started staging events where she and him would both be together during them, as well as pushing her towards going out with him and leaving me. (No, this is NOT guess-work; this was relayed back to me from another friend of her's as to what was going on after the fact.) A couple people even went as far as to take her to a seminar where some speaker was talking about how the Catholic Church is nothing but a cult that was based on some Moon Goddess, and isn't even a real church of God. And, unfortunately, this wouldn't be the last time I'd deal with this from baptists.
I was insulted, to say the least, and it started putting the divide between me and her as she started questioning my faith. Eventually, she went on a retreat with her group and the guy they were pushing her to be with was with them. The two of them got to go out at some point during the retreat and one of her other friends was more than happy to tell me that she now had a "new boyfriend." She even made a point to introduce him to me. When I confronted her on it, I was angry. And we both could've handled the situation better. When it was all done, she broke up with me. We wouldn't talk regularly, again, for over 10 years. Her friends in the student union were thrilled. As I was told, it wouldn't have worked out anyway because I wasn't right for her.... because I was Catholic.
She eventually married this same guy who was so perfect for her according to her friends. He would become a pastor. He would also go on to mentally and emotionally abuse her. The two would later divorce, but he still interjects himself into her life at some rather inconvenient times. Some of his recent actions have even gone a far as resulting in her having to file for bankruptcy.
Now she's stuck with two kids, trying to make ends meet, and dating yet another baptist pastor. Considering how the last one turned out, I can't help but see the same thing happening to her again.
I will be honest. I have never gotten over her (go ahead and say that makes me a terrible person now. I invite you to it). I'm glad that we're even able to be friends after what happened. But it still causes a great deal of anger and pain for me to think about this. For me, I'm still going through the misery of what happened. And she's still dealing with the consequences of her actions thanks to her ex-husband (and probably will be doing the same with the thing she's seeing).
So, in my book, that's what listening to your friends will get you when it comes to love.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 7/11/2008 3:32:39 PM >
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/11/2008 3:10:48 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
quote:
Please be careful about making assumptions.
I apologise if you were offended at my suggestion.
I wasn't offended, just trying to point out that you never know what book someone has or has not read.
I wasn't suggesting you hadn't read it. What I was suggesting was that you read it to find a novel that gives another view. It doesn't matter if you've never read it or read it 100 times. Your op mentioned a view from one book. I was just giving another view.
Isn't that what discussions are all about?
Most of my mother's family thinks that their relatives new boy/girlfriends are wonderful until they split up and then they pick up every little fault that the person has. It would be folly for me (or anyone in the family) to take what they say seriously. My father's side of the family are slightly different, but I'm not sure that they'd give an honest opinion either.
quote:
I have never gotten over her (go ahead and say that makes me a terrible person now. I invite you to it). You're not a terrible person for not having got over her, but it is a shame if this has influenced other relationships and I'd simply suggest you look into getting some help to put this more in the past.
_____________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
My blog
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/12/2008 12:04:22 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
You're not a terrible person for not having got over her, but it is a shame if this has influenced other relationships and I'd simply suggest you look into getting some help to put this more in the past.
Really the only influence this has had on me is to realize that there are certain people (and certain groups of people) who you can never trust, due to their bias. And that's why I say that relying on your friends and family's advice regarding who you're dating isn't a very good idea. Particularly if they have rather lop-sided motives and beliefs, shall we say.
In my mind, an individual generally knows best what characteristics they're looking for in a mate (perhaps even instictively), and should rely on their own feelings in searching for one.
As for help, I have my own wasy of dealing with things, but thank you.
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/12/2008 1:48:21 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
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I have to say considering the source is important. If this is someone you trust, and the warnings they are making are not superficial ones like, "He's X race, dont marry, or He's X height no good." Religion is actually a VERY important aspect of marriage and should be considered. It was important for a parent or even friends to encourage one to find out ALL that one possibly can about a bf/gf's religion. I don't think that is out of place at all. This could cause untold pain and division in a family in the long run.
I think it is imporant to tell someone about the red flags you see in their fiance or bf/gf. It's important because often infatuation and "feelings" evict reason. I sincerely hope, that someone would do that for me.
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/12/2008 4:30:18 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
I have to say considering the source is important. If this is someone you trust, and the warnings they are making are not superficial ones like, "He's X race, dont marry, or He's X height no good." Religion is actually a VERY important aspect of marriage and should be considered. It was important for a parent or even friends to encourage one to find out ALL that one possibly can about a bf/gf's religion. I don't think that is out of place at all. This could cause untold pain and division in a family in the long run.
I think it is imporant to tell someone about the red flags you see in their fiance or bf/gf. It's important because often infatuation and "feelings" evict reason. I sincerely hope, that someone would do that for me.
Really? So that includes lying to her about my denomination? That includes being sneaky and trying to break two people up? We were both Christians, but that wasn't good enough? She couldn't marry someone other than another oh-so-holy baptist, no matter how bad it turned out?
I agree that religion is an important part of marriage, but like Sideways said... that was taking it too far.
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/13/2008 6:06:14 AM
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ebony101
Posts: 913
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: the big blue marble
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Listening to others opinion is a pretty tricky thing to do, so many facets of your relationship with them has to be continued. What I think matters is as follows:
1. I think that you have to be clear in your own mind on what you want in a poetential mate. Keep praying to God for guidance and discernment while dating. He listens, he will anwer, he knows what is best for you.
2. Secondly, know that what you see & experience is what you will get. Don't think that you will change him or her. YOU WON'T. The same way that your mate/spouse/partner won't be able to change you.
3. As far as being abusive is concerned there are usually some tell-tale factors that you can look out for during the dating stage that will tell if he has abusive tendencies (e.g. domineering, snide comments about you person; ignoring your opinions, etc.). Once these factors come up try to discontinue the relationship.
4. Ignore superficial opinions, i.e. comments about race, religion, personal features. Those are not solid reasons to discontinue a relationship. Religion is a tricky aspect though, but that should be covered in #1 - knowing what you want.
5. If at all possible try to seek the opinion of a person who is neutral. At the same time, this neutral person should be someone who knows you quite well (but not a family member - they classify as people with a vested interest). This person should not have had a relationship with the person in whom you are presently interested.
That's my take I hope I haven't left out anything.
_____________________________
'We're writing a gospel, a chapter each day,
By the things that we do & the words that we say.'
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/14/2008 9:59:24 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
I have to say considering the source is important. If this is someone you trust, and the warnings they are making are not superficial ones like, "He's X race, dont marry, or He's X height no good." Religion is actually a VERY important aspect of marriage and should be considered. It was important for a parent or even friends to encourage one to find out ALL that one possibly can about a bf/gf's religion. I don't think that is out of place at all. This could cause untold pain and division in a family in the long run.
I think it is imporant to tell someone about the red flags you see in their fiance or bf/gf. It's important because often infatuation and "feelings" evict reason. I sincerely hope, that someone would do that for me.
quote:
Really? Really.
quote:
So that includes lying to her about my denomination? No. That does not include lying to her about your denomination. Lying is wrong. But what you have to understand, is that protestants find a lot of the Catholic traditions, specifically those written in your Cannons to be extremely suspect--almost, blasphemous. You should really study up on what is in Catholicism and understand what it is specifically that protestants find disturbing. quote:
That includes being sneaky and trying to break two people up? No. Again. Sneaky is never a good thing. But if I knew a friend of mine was dating someone who was not "in the faith" I would MOST DEFINATELY tell them I thought she/he was making a big mistake, show unequally yoked scriptures. But, no sneakiness would be needed.
quote:
We were both Christians, but that wasn't good enough?
Being Christian isn't something you are born into. This is an essential understanding of most protestants (which is fast being lost). The Bible teaches not everyone who says, Lord, Lord (claims to be a christian), knows Him. When protestants look at the Catholic traditions they are worried, because many of the traditions run afoul with essential biblical doctrine regarding salvation.
quote:
She couldn't marry someone other than another oh-so-holy baptist, no matter how bad it turned out? Her marriage turned out badly, because of two sinfulness and selfishness. All human failings, of which we are all guilty--not because she married a baptist. There is no guarantee your marriage to her would have turned out differently.
quote:
I agree that religion is an important part of marriage, but like Sideways said... that was taking it too far. Sure they did unkind things to you--perhaps cruel things to break up your relationship. But remember, it was just a relationship. It might not have necessarily gone to marriage, even without her friends' promptings. Remember, she's an individual, perfectly capable of making her own decisions with or without her friends input. While it is easy to blame her "self-righteous" baptist friends, it is unrealistic to ignore her part in marrying another suitor. In fact, you could go so far as to say, If you really believed that you were both Christians and there is really no difference between Catholics and Baptists, you could have converted to a baptist to bridge the distance since it was so important to her.
Finally, it seems to me, and I may be wrong, but you have given way too much power to this one incident in your life. While I know it may have caused you pain and trauma, there is no need to lament it for 20 years. If she had really really wanted to Marry you, she would have. And perhaps, the same could have been said for you, and converting to protestantism (Baptist). There are any number of variables that could have occurred. Your best course is to forgive those who hurt you and LET IT GO.
Bless you
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/15/2008 9:06:48 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
No. That does not include lying to her about your denomination. Lying is wrong. But what you have to understand, is that Protestants find a lot of the Catholic traditions, specifically those written in your Cannons to be extremely suspect--almost, blasphemous. You should really study up on what is in Catholicism and understand what it is specifically that protestants find disturbing.
Apparently I've done a lot more reading than you have. I understand what a lot of baptists (not Protestants) find suspect, but they still have to make garbage up. I understand that Protestants think that there are things in the Catholic Cannons that are "blasphemous." I'm not going to get into the ways in which they're incorrect in here (apparently, this site has set up threads for doing that to the heart's content of everyone else, so I'll leave that alone).
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
No. Again. Sneaky is never a good thing. But if I knew a friend of mine was dating someone who was not "in the faith" I would MOST DEFINATELY tell them I thought she/he was making a big mistake, show unequally yoked scriptures. But, no sneakiness would be needed.
I would hardly call this situation to have been "unequally yoked". Unless what you're saying is that someone's beliefs on Christianity have to be picture-perfect-exactly the same as their partner's. I never used to see that big of a difference between baptists and other Christian denominations. For the most part, I still do not. Things have changed a lot in many of these churches since the days of Luther and Calvin. I used to believe (and still do, for the most part) that those gaps can be bridged? My own parents, themselves, are examples that this gap CAN be bridged, and I know of many others who are the same way. The one thing that seems to stand in the way, though, is the mindset of certain believers (dare I say zealots).
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Being Christian isn't something you are born into.
Yeah, I know that. NEXT!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
This is an essential understanding of most protestants (which is fast being lost). The Bible teaches not everyone who says, Lord, Lord (claims to be a christian), knows Him. When protestants look at the Catholic traditions they are worried, because many of the traditions run afoul with essential biblical doctrine regarding salvation.
I would disagree. It seems (sadly) that Catholics have made the same claims about Protestants, and both groups can go through the Bible and rip the other to shreds. As I recall, both have made claims that the other will bring forth the anti-Christ from their midst.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Sure they did unkind things to you--perhaps cruel things to break up your relationship. But remember, it was just a relationship. It might not have necessarily gone to marriage, even without her friends' promptings. Remember, she's an individual, perfectly capable of making her own decisions with or without her friends input. While it is easy to blame her "self-righteous" baptist friends, it is unrealistic to ignore her part in marrying another suitor. In fact, you could go so far as to say, If you really believed that you were both Christians and there is really no difference between Catholics and Baptists, you could have converted to a baptist to bridge the distance since it was so important to her.
We had been discussing this (one of us converting to the other's denomination). And, at that time, I really was thinking about it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Finally, it seems to me, and I may be wrong, but you have given way too much power to this one incident in your life. While I know it may have caused you pain and trauma, there is no need to lament it for 20 years. If she had really really wanted to Marry you, she would have. And perhaps, the same could have been said for you, and converting to protestantism (baptist). There are any number of variables that could have occurred. Your best course is to forgive those who hurt you and LET IT GO.
Bless you
You would be wrong on a couple of points. I realize that there are a number of variables that COULD have happened. What bugs me, though, is the one that DID happen to her wouldn't have. I know that doesn't mean that things would've been any different between the two of us, but I know I wouldn't have done the things to her that her husband did.
At any rate, thank you for re-establishing some opinions of mine.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 7/15/2008 10:26:49 AM >
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/16/2008 1:17:44 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 625
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
I just started reading David Copperfield (I'm trying to fill in some gaps in my education). And I'm already up to the part where poor David is working at the docks.
Anway, before that part, there is a part in which David lives happily with his mother and their maid, Peggoty. All three are good friends. David's mom is a widow, and she marries this guy that when he was dating the mother, neither David nor Peggoty liked at all. When David's mother and the man do marry, he is emotionally abusive to David's mother and physically and emotionally abusive to David. Then as the book goes on, the reader can't stop thinking that the mother should have listened to David and Peggoty.
Then for a real life example. We knew this guy once that my dad knew through the military, and when he was engaged, he came to our house for Christmas. My sisters and I could not STAND the guy. We told my parents, but at the time they didn't really take our opinion into account..long story short, many years and five kids later, the guy turned out to be an abuser and an adulterer, and they got a divorce.
I also know of a woman who was dating a guy, and her niece COULD NOT STAND the guy!!!! In recent years the family had a turnaround, but for years that couple was about the most miserable I ever knew.
All this says to me: Love is often blind, and it is a good idea to listen to friends and family in your life who love you if they have a concern about the person you are dating. It could be easy to be defensive at first, but usually people are only looking out for you, and better to break up than to go through misery.
I do agree that love can be blind. If your family and friends are Christians (and you believe them to be wise and trust them) I would definitely think it advisable to listen to their advice and opinions...especially that of your parents. The Bible says a wise man (or woman  ) will listen to instruction/correction.
Sadly I didn't listen to my parents enough while dating. Had I done so I would've avoided much heartache.
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/16/2008 11:25:34 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
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quote:
We had been discussing this (one of us converting to the other's denomination). And, at that time, I really was thinking about it.
I think this quote speaks volumes.
I think there was some stubborness on both your sides. It's just easier to blame her friends, rather than the two people that really had the opportunity to make the big decisions, but didn't--YOU and HER. It may not be explicitly stated, but most certainly implicit. Hense the encouragement: Let it go.
And if you think about it, if my ONE post on a PROTESTANT website can re-establish some opinions of yours, it might well have been best that you did not marry a protestant anyway.
Hope all goes well for you. 
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RE: When you think you're in love, but others have doubts - 7/17/2008 8:41:36 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
quote:
We had been discussing this (one of us converting to the other's denomination). And, at that time, I really was thinking about it.
I think this quote speaks volumes.
Um.... sure. Whatever. 
I will freely admit (and have), though, that I handled things poorly on my side.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
And if you think about it, if my ONE post on a PROTESTANT website can re-establish some opinions of yours, it might well have been best that you did not marry a protestant anyway.
i wasn't ever looking at marrying a protestant, but whatever.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Hope all goes well for you.
You enjoy life, too, eh.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 7/17/2008 9:37:57 AM >
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