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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 2:16:36 PM
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bzirk
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Excellent point, RC. Some of the great leaders of scripture were not necessarily what we think of as "people people."
In fact, perhaps too much has been made of that in modern times and not enough of the Lord's leading in a person's life.
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Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 2:26:51 PM
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rcjones
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quote:
I never said a pastor had to be a social butterfly (people person) but asked about a pastor LIKING people as a whole.
I guess I would want to listen to his heart rather than his words.
There is much I hate about people as much as I hate the flesh. I hate the flesh so much that the tyrant is my friend since he gives me opportunity to love one who despises me. I hate the flesh in others that enslaves them and keeps them deaf, blind and lame, unable to hear or see God or walk in His ways.
"Not liking" people might just be a polite way of saying the same. Hating the flesh, and loving what God has created which is currently ensnared by the flesh, like the abominable lobster that snatches the clean fish from the water:word and drags it into the muddy, earthly flesh, can be said in one breath without contradiction.
The proverb says that one side is right until the other side is heard. We've heard his words, lets hear his heart.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 2:29:43 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjones
quote:
I never said a pastor had to be a social butterfly (people person) but asked about a pastor LIKING people as a whole.
I guess I would want to listen to his heart rather than his words.
There is much I hate about people as much as I hate the flesh. I hate the flesh so much that the tyrant is my friend since he gives me opportunity to love one who despises me. I hate the flesh in others that enslaves them and keeps them deaf, blind and lame, unable to hear or see God or walk in His ways.
"Not liking" people might just be a polite way of saying the same. Hating the flesh, and loving what God has created which is currently ensnared by the flesh, like the abominable lobster that snatches the clean fish from the water:word and drags it into the muddy, earthly flesh, can be said in one breath without contradiction.
The proverb says that one side is right until the other side is heard. We've heard his words, lets hear his heart.
Amen!
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 2:42:53 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
I never said a pastor had to be a social butterfly (people person) but asked about a pastor LIKING people as a whole.
I agree that they are two different things. There is a huge difference between a person who isn't a people person, and a person who doesn't like people.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 2:46:24 PM
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rcjones
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Since you got me started on a rant...
I hate the fleshly church that turns prayer meetings into gossip sessions with eyes closed.
Or makes them into Administrative review boards over God, pointing out all the places in our universe that He has apparently forgotten about, or judging the way his is handling this issue or that, presuming that He has to report to us in all His actions so that we may know what He is doing or give our approval.
I hate the fleshly church's complicity with mammon, and the fleshly nature it nurtures in battles of power and control.
I hate the fleshly church's addiction to sensuality appeased by entertainment.
These things don't make me hate people that are enslaved by the flesh. But to have even more compassion. But just from these few posts some will consider me unlikable or unfriendly.
No wonder the mystery Babylon looks like the church and we are commanded to come out of her. It isn't the institution, but the flesh that makes us unclean until the evening. Until the evening we can only renew our minds by the washing of his word and look forward to the day when we are set free from it.
_____________________________
Riddle me this:
Job 8.9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 3:09:16 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjones
Since you got me started on a rant...
I hate the fleshly church that turns prayer meetings into gossip sessions with eyes closed.
Or makes them into Administrative review boards over God, pointing out all the places in our universe that He has apparently forgotten about, or judging the way his is handling this issue or that, presuming that He has to report to us in all His actions so that we may know what He is doing or give our approval.
I hate the fleshly church's complicity with mammon, and the fleshly nature it nurtures in battles of power and control.
I hate the fleshly church's addiction to sensuality appeased by entertainment.
These things don't make me hate people that are enslaved by the flesh. But to have even more compassion. But just from these few posts some will consider me unlikable or unfriendly.
No wonder the mystery Babylon looks like the church and we are commanded to come out of her. It isn't the institution, but the flesh that makes us unclean until the evening. Until the evening we can only renew our minds by the washing of his word and look forward to the day when we are set free from it.
Amen.
I think sometimes pastors get weary of exactly that, RC, and perhaps they might not phrase their weariness with it so well. Maybe that's what happened with some of the pastors Diane has encountered or maybe not. I certainly don't know, but I have observed a pastor's weariness with the very real flesh that seems to be so much with us, and yes, I've witnessed pastors being disgusted with it in themselves.
So can there be effective pastors who don't like people? I think for a time this can occur, but if it goes on for an extended period, then it hamstrings the pastor. He should be wise enough to realize sooner rather than later that we do not war against flesh and blood.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 5:21:15 PM
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alisonb
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For what it's worth, here's my take on it.
After years of dealing with all sorts of people, complete with the failings and shortcomings ALL of us have....could it be that some - especially some experienced pastors - have become all too familiar with humanity?
If you are a pastor, I dare say that you have probably seen the worst as well as (hopefully) the best in people. And seeing the worst, day after day, year after year, just MIGHT bring you to the conclusion that you "don't like people."
That doesn't mean that these same pastors aren't called to LOVE people.
BTW, I'm not a church pastor, but I do lead a church ministry....so , I do have plenty of pastoral responsibilities. So I "get" some of the human-relations difficulties that go along with pastoring.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/12/2008 5:36:19 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alisonb
For what it's worth, here's my take on it.
After years of dealing with all sorts of people, complete with the failings and shortcomings ALL of us have....could it be that some - especially some experienced pastors - have become all too familiar with humanity?
If you are a pastor, I dare say that you have probably seen the worst as well as (hopefully) the best in people. And seeing the worst, day after day, year after year, just MIGHT bring you to the conclusion that you "don't like people."
That doesn't mean that these same pastors aren't called to LOVE people.
No question that pastors usually see the worst (and yes, hopefully, the best). That is a very real hazard of pastoring. That's why it's imperative for a pastor to continually seek the Lord and for a congregation to pray for the pastor.
quote:
BTW, I'm not a church pastor, but I do lead a church ministry....so , I do have plenty of pastoral responsibilities. So I "get" some of the human-relations difficulties that go along with pastoring.
Numerous positions in the church afford this kind of viewpoint. It's long been my opinion that even the church secretary has a type of responsibility that affords this viewpoint. In fact, I have long prayed for our church secretary and many other church secretaries I've known. I've witnessed first hand how people's eyes are opened to what goes on with people in the church once they become the church secretary. They get to see the underbelly, as it were.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 12:01:15 AM
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HeatherHippo
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I am using my wife's login. I was planning to make my own, but I see my wife already had an account for my e-mail address.
I believe that a person can definitely be called to be a pastor when he doesn't like people. A church sometimes may have a somewhat selfish view of who their pastor is. A pastor is just a person in whom God has entrusted the role of leading the church. This does not necessarily mean he has arrived at everything. Including knowing how to like people. Consider Jonah. God definitely called him (in no uncertain terms) to Ninevah and he definitely did not like them. (Note: God dealt with him for his lack of compassion after his ministry to them was basically done.) You could say the same thing of Jeremiah (see chapter 20) who definitely did not even want to speak to the people, but the fire continued to burn in spite of it. He was compelled to speak to a people that would consistently mock and laugh at him. He was even called a traitor for making the stands that he did.
I am a person that God called to be a minister even though I didn't like people. I am a pastor's kid and have seen a lot in the body of Christ that many don't see. As a result, I had little respect for just about any one. When I was growing up, people would ask me what I wanted to be and I would reply, "anything but a pastor". I was pretty disillusioned with the church as a whole and disliked the way churches would treat their ministers. I definitely believed in God. I definitely believe that God moved and I believed in the assembling together of the believers. I believed that God loved people. I was still a Christian, I just struggled with liking people. It was often my prayer that God would help me to like people. I was in the military, planning to make it my career, when I was called to be a pastor. If it wasn't for the calling of God on my life, I would never have become one.
When I was called, I definitely thought, how can I be a minister when I generally don't like people. I have found, however, that his grace is also sufficient for me. I have grown to love, and even like, people. At first, it was a lot of God's grace for people coming through me in the role of pastor. But God has worked in me and taught me to genuinely like people. I guess what I am trying to say is, God is still at work in a pastor as well as working in a congregation. God seems to delight in taking the least likely person for a job and making him something that neither he, or anyone else would never expect him to be. Have patience with your pastor, God isn't finished with him yet.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 5:06:11 AM
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Annie64
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I read all this thread thinking of my father. He is a retired minister who never had a ministry that went very far by earthly standards. He mostly pastored small churches that remained small churches. Much of his lack of visible success probably stems from the fact that he is a very shy man. And if you asked him in just the right context, he might have said that he didn't "like people." It wouldn't have actually been true. My father is a very loving and compassionate man. But when he pastored full-time, he dreaded visiting people in their homes. He dreaded it, but he did it. He is the very opposite of a schmoozer. Shortly after my mom passed away, he told me that in social situations, he depended on her to carry the conversations, and now he felt pressure to have to carry on conversations himself, and he didn't feel like he could do it. When he said it, I realized that he was right about himself--he always did let Mom do the talking. But that is not to say that he wasn't called of God to be a pastor or that God didn't use him. I do not know how much or how little God may have used him in any of the churches he ever pastored or supply pastored (my dad actually did mostly fill-in after I was eight years old), but I do know God used him, and what being a pastor made him to be as a man, in the lives of his ten children and twenty grandchildren, and is being carried down now to some of his great-grandchildren, three of whom attend every Sunday the last church my dad pastored full-time. My sister, their grandmother, has been a member of that church ever since my dad pastored it more than 35 years ago. I believe he was every bit as called of God to be a pastor as the most gregarious mega-church pastor you could find, and I believe that his reward in heaven when he gets there will be at least as substantial.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 9:59:30 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Jonah was a prophet, not a pastor.
There's one thing I wanted to ask. Why is it that it is only in the context of people that the word "like" is used as a stronger term of affection than "love"? If I said I loved chocolate but I didn't like it, people would look at me like I had two heads. But in terms of people we say we love them but we don't like them, and I don't understand how that can be. I thought that loving someone was stronger than liking them, and that if you loved them, it meant you had already progressed past liking them. I don't understand how a person can simultaneously love and dislike someone.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 10:02:25 AM
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bluestone
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I love family members because of the blood kin. Some are jerks and creeps, and I don't like them or like being around them.
Same in the church. There are some jerks and creeps that drive me nuts. I don't like them, but I do have a love for them. Because they are family.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 10:08:15 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Honestly, I think we often say we love someone when we don't, just because we know it's our Christian duty to love our brothers. If we automatically loved someone because they are family, why would God have to command us to love our brothers?
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 10:55:03 AM
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bluestone
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Love and like are two very different things. You are confusing concepts.
They are not yoked together.
I think saying that someone has to like everyone they love is just incorrect. Or that they are lying and don't love someone just because they don't like the person is not understanding the differences in the two.
When a person becomes a Christian, they do develop an overwhelming love for others. They do not necessarily like the person.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 11:23:15 AM
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Consecrated2God
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I just wonder if we truly do love the people we dislike. I understand that we might not like everyone, but to dislike them doesn't seem right to me. I have plenty of people I know that I don't either like or dislike. They aren't close enough to me to cause me to feel either way about them. However, there are other people that have gotten close to me, and some of them I like, and some of them I struggle with because they are easy to dislike. It's easy to say, "Well, I love them, I just don't like them", but I'm not sure God would find that acceptable. Those people in my life that I struggle with negative feelings toward, I am praying that God would help me truly love them, not just say that because we're supposed to love our brothers.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 11:27:18 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Here is the definition of dislike according to dictionary.com.
quote:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
dis·like Audio Help /dɪsˈlaɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dis-lahyk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -liked, -lik·ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to regard with displeasure, antipathy, or aversion: I dislike working. I dislike oysters.
–noun 2. a feeling of aversion; antipathy: a strong dislike for Bach.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1545–55; dis-1 + like2]
—Related forms
dis·lik·a·ble, dis·like·a·ble, adjective
—Synonyms 2. disrelish. Dislike, disgust, distaste, repugnance imply antipathy toward something. Dislike is a general word, sometimes connoting an inherent or permanent feeling of antipathy for something: to have a dislike for crowds. Disgust connotes a feeling of loathing for what is offensive to the feelings and sensibilities: He felt disgust at seeing such ostentation. Distaste implies a more or less settled dislike: to have distaste for spicy foods, for hard work. Repugnance is a strong feeling of aversion for, and antagonism toward, something: to feel repugnance for (or toward) low criminals.
I couldn't imagine telling someone, "I have an aversion towards you. I do not regard you with pleasure. In fact, I have an inherent feeling of antipathy towards you. However, I LOVE you!"
Do you think that person would feel loved?
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 12:39:52 PM
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bluestone
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The person in question would not like it. Of course, if they would change their actions or words, the issue may go away.
I don't like someone due to their actions, words, or personality traits, or lack of trustworthiness.
"I don't like you because you steal from me"
"I don't like you because you make statements that are offensive"
"I don't like you because you are ill mannered and obnoxious"
The word aversion has a creepy factor attached to it. I don't think it is always true in the definition of "Like"
We are called to love people, which is the opposite of "hate", not of "Like"
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 12:48:24 PM
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Consecrated2God
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I think it would be better to dislike people's behavior, than to say we don't like them because of X.
I'm not saying that we must like everyone. I'm saying that loving someone means you don't dislike them.
Yes, we are called to love. Love is stronger than like. Some people act like liking is stronger than love. "I love everyone, but these are the few that I really like." If I were talking about anything else, I would say it the opposite way. "I like just about any kind of music, but these are the songs I really love."
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 12:52:52 PM
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bluestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I'm not saying that we must like everyone. I'm saying that loving someone means you don't dislike them.
Then we must disagree. I think it is entirely possible, and probable that we will truly love people, but not like them. Like and love are not interchangeable.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 1:41:54 PM
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Consecrated2God
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I can agree to disagree. 
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 1:43:54 PM
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bzirk
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That disagreement strikes at the issue I have with this thread, namely that we really don't know what definition and context was used by the pastors referenced in the op. I think "I don't like" is a pretty broad statement that can mean a lot of things.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 1:52:52 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
That disagreement strikes at the issue I have with this thread, namely that we really don't know what definition and context was used by the pastors referenced in the op. I think "I don't like" is a pretty broad statement that can mean a lot of things.
I agree. I can see it two different ways (at least!) One is, "I don't like people" and the other is "I don't like people." That's clear as mud, I know, so I'll try and explain the difference. The first one, I don't "like people" means to me that in general, I'm not the kind of person that just enjoys hanging around people socially. I'm just not that great at it. God might have called me to be around people, but it's something He is going to have to grow me into, because I don't have the greatest of social skills."
The second one I've emphasised the "don't like" part because I've translated it as "dislike". And that's what I have an issue with. Pastors who actively dislike people have no business being pastors.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 2:00:50 PM
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Consecrated2God
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I agree that pastoring and preaching don't always go together. From what I understand, there's some disagreement among the experts as to whether the five-fold ministry should really be four-fold or not. I've heard some people say the grammar in that verse should be translated "pastor-teachers" instead of pastors and teachers, but I don't know.
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RE: 'I don't like people'. Can he be a Pastor?? - 7/14/2008 2:19:11 PM
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bzirk
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Ditto on the various interpretations of Ephesians 4. Whatever the case may be with preaching, Paul outlined the "credentials" for an elder, and hospitality is among them. Whether that translates to being social a majority of the time I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't give lee way to shun people in general.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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