RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 7:13:05 PM
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rlj
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Between 75% and 90% of all the insurgents in Iraq have been/are foreigners sent there for the Jihad against America. Remove the Americans and while the country won't be a peaceful oasis it may actually improve.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 7:20:58 PM
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loloidong
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quote:
Although this matter will not affect the Bush Administration's agenda (as it will be history in six months), how will the next administration handle this matter if a foreign country wants American troops out by a specific date? Another opportunity for Obama to refine his position on Iraq.
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 7:23:47 PM
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loloidong
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Between 75% and 90% of all the insurgents in Iraq have been/are foreigners sent there for the Jihad against America. Remove the Americans and while the country won't be a peaceful oasis it may actually improve.
No peace = improvement? 
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 7:25:51 PM
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loloidong
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
Not necessarily true. Before it was bands of Iraqis, people who claimed to be Iraqi expressing such desires for any number of reasons. Now we have the duly elected government of Iraq saying that they feel fairly confident that their government is stable enough, and strong enough to deal with just about anything that they may face.
"Bands of Iraqis?"
Many Iraqis declared they were sick of the sufferings that had become their daily realities and wanted our soldiers out. I am not saying our troops themselves were to blame or that the Iraqis felt that way, but they were tired of all the violence. As for "any number of reasons," I speculate that the millions who have been driven from their homes might be a valid enough reason.
Many Iraqis? Did they have a poll done, a referendum or some kind?
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 7:27:53 PM
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loloidong
Posts: 60
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I guess our oppression and imperial reign is over?
Saddam's been overthrown. You are years late to know this.
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 7:31:27 PM
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loloidong
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Why should we care what a democratically elected, sovereign government thinks? We're America and no one tells US what to do! 
I agree. If they now think they can be independent and self sufficient, it is high time to give them their freedom. We've given them the right to decide how long we can stay and they are owning to it now. Besides, this is what we are giving them anyway - self reliance.
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 9:50:54 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 480
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
Not necessarily true. Before it was bands of Iraqis, people who claimed to be Iraqi expressing such desires for any number of reasons. Now we have the duly elected government of Iraq saying that they feel fairly confident that their government is stable enough, and strong enough to deal with just about anything that they may face.
"Bands of Iraqis?"
Many Iraqis declared they were sick of the sufferings that had become their daily realities and wanted our soldiers out. I am not saying our troops themselves were to blame or that the Iraqis felt that way, but they were tired of all the violence. As for "any number of reasons," I speculate that the millions who have been driven from their homes might be a valid enough reason.
And of course it is only our forces that are to blame for the violence in Iraq.
Iraq is not being threatened by their neighbors in any shape or for.
Everything is America's fault.
My point is that in the past it was a relatively few Iraqis' or people claiming to be Iraqis who were calling for us to leave. Now it is the whole country. A country who's government is representative of all the people. A country who is finally feeling more and more confident and able to work as one for their common interest and deal with their neighbors as equals.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 10:06:00 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
Not necessarily true. Before it was bands of Iraqis, people who claimed to be Iraqi expressing such desires for any number of reasons. Now we have the duly elected government of Iraq saying that they feel fairly confident that their government is stable enough, and strong enough to deal with just about anything that they may face.
"Bands of Iraqis?"
Many Iraqis declared they were sick of the sufferings that had become their daily realities and wanted our soldiers out. I am not saying our troops themselves were to blame or that the Iraqis felt that way, but they were tired of all the violence. As for "any number of reasons," I speculate that the millions who have been driven from their homes might be a valid enough reason.
And of course it is only our forces that are to blame for the violence in Iraq.
Iraq is not being threatened by their neighbors in any shape or for.
Everything is America's fault.
My point is that in the past it was a relatively few Iraqis' or people claiming to be Iraqis who were calling for us to leave. Now it is the whole country. A country who's government is representative of all the people. A country who is finally feeling more and more confident and able to work as one for their common interest and deal with their neighbors as equals.
"Everything is America's fault"
I never said that, so if you are accusing me of saying that, you are wrong.
Nor did I ever say that US troops only are to blame for the violence in Iraq.
A "relatively" few Iraqis, you say - but when 2mm are internally displaced and they feel the occupation is a problem, you think it's a relatively few?
And now it's the whole country, so every Iraqi now wants us out?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 10:22:03 PM
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Leon_Figg3
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RichLP,
I may be reading more into your posts than what you have written, but what you have written seems to come across as being a world view which sees America at fault for everything, and the cause for everything that goes on, espeically (at present) the violence in Iraq.
Also, I am not saying that now all Iraqi's want us out of Iraq. I am saying that through their government, a government that we helped the Iraqis create for themselves, is saying to us and the world that they are getting to the point that they feel that they can stand on their own feet.
Does everyone in America agree with what our government decides to do?
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 10:50:55 PM
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mapachito13
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Here's some news reports from days past about Iraqis attitudes towards the American presence there.
2004 poll
2006 Poll
2007 Poll
A page linking to many other polls since 2004
But us "libs" don't care about facts so you can ignore what these numbers mean!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/10/2008 11:48:49 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3424
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quote:
The poll shows that most continue to say the hardships suffered to depose Saddam Hussein were worth it. Half say they and their families are better off than they were under Saddam. And a strong majority say they are more free to worship and to speak. (Related item: Key findings)
But while they acknowledge benefits from dumping Saddam a year ago, Iraqis no longer see the presence of the American-led military as a plus. Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as "liberators" or "occupiers," 71% of all respondents say "occupiers."
I don't see anything here that would suggest the majority of Iraqi's one year after Saddam fell as thinking we are some evil tyrant needing to be thrown out or the blame for all their problems.
quote:
A large majority of Iraqis–71%–say they would like the Iraqi government to ask for US-led forces to be withdrawn from Iraq within a year or less. Given four options, 37 percent take the position that they would like US-led forces withdrawn “within six months,” while another 34 percent opt for “gradually withdraw[ing] US-led forces according to a one-year timeline.”
I see no problem with Iraqis wanting to be independant.
quote:
Support for attacks against US-led forces has increased sharply to 61 percent (27% strongly, 34% somewhat). This represents a 14-point increase from January 2006, when only 47 percent of Iraqis supported attacks.
The american is an easy target to hate and this poll only says that Iraqi's, only 27% of them truly strong in this opinion, think the american presence is something that needs to be pushed out. Not suprising in a muslim dominated part of the world.
It wouyld be my opinion the 2007 poll on the Iraqi's perceptions of internal security and propsperity in Iraq is understandably bleak. Its a war torn country who has been under a tyrant for years. Confidence isn't something that comes naturally from them.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/11/2008 9:21:01 AM
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rlj
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quote:
No peace = improvement?
Israel, Palestine, Lebanon are 3 nations that deal with terrorists and have for decades. They aren't considered to be at war with anyone yet they still have bombings, shootings etc. I don't believe that Iraq will ever have a "peace" greater than those 3 and they know it. Which is why they are closer to being ready than we realize.
quote:
if Iraq thinks they are ready to step up to the task of taking responsibility for the stability of their country, then the request for us to make preparations to leave is something we should be celebrating.
In fairness those of us who made a case for a timeline 2 or 3 years ago were villified for it. However I do agree with you on the celebrate part. Nothing wrong with winding this thing down and going home. :D
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/11/2008 10:10:31 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
RichLP,
I may be reading more into your posts than what you have written, but what you have written seems to come across as being a world view which sees America at fault for everything, and the cause for everything that goes on, espeically (at present) the violence in Iraq.
Also, I am not saying that now all Iraqi's want us out of Iraq. I am saying that through their government, a government that we helped the Iraqis create for themselves, is saying to us and the world that they are getting to the point that they feel that they can stand on their own feet.
Does everyone in America agree with what our government decides to do?
Leon_Figg3,
US foreign policy is crafted and conducted to serve American interests, not necessarily morally, freedom, or democracy. The same can be said of Israeli, British, Argentine, Vietnamese, North Korean, and Spaniard foreign policies. Each state has an elite who has an invested interest in perpetuating its own status as an elite, and if that means using the power and resources of the state abroad, even at the expense of foreign (and in some cases, domestic) civilians' livelihood or well-being, thus is it.
Now, if you will say that the US troop presence in Iraq never figured as a reason for the violence, you're mistaken. By this I do not mean US troops randomly attacked civilians on shooting sprees. They are humans under highly stressful combat situations where distinguishing friend from foe is very difficult, and unfortunately there have been instances where they shot civilians when they thought they were firing at insurgents or any other hostile, armed elements.
But the problem generated by the US troop presence, even if it does (and a case can be made that it most certain does) play a positive and constructive role vis-a-vis public safety, is that when US troops accidentally or unwittingly kill Iraqi civilians, relatives become enraged and they seek revenge. Is this solely the fault of US troops? No. But that has happened.
We helped create the Iraqi government for themselves? We had a vested interest in it as well. We wanted a friendly government and we are in the process of crafting a Status of Forces Agreement. The Bush administration has not (publicly, at least) renounced its desire to maintain a long-term presence in Iraq, what with the several permanent bases and the currently operation air base north of Baghdad whose traffic nearly parallels that of Heathrow.
The irony in this piece of news, one that is sure to trouble pro-war/pro-Bush Americans who also favor not withdrawing just yet, is that after years of bitter and exhausting violence, US troop deaths, and civil war, that the Bush administration desperately needed signs of progress. Hence the surge. And now that the Iraqi government has decided it wants the US troops out - ostensibly because Iraq can now "stand on its own two feet" - a major reason given by the Bush administration and its supporters for the continued permanence of American troops in Iraq no longer exists.
And not to attack John McCain (I am NOT voting for him, but I am not voting for Barack Obama either), but McCain has repeatedly warned that if we withdraw too soon, Al-Qaeda will take over. Never mind that foreign insurgents who comprise Al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia are a few thousand in number and not affiliated with the real Al-Qaeda we should be pursuing; never mind that both Sunni and Shiite Iraqis hate these foreign fighters; never mind that one-time, anti-USA insurgents turned their guns on these combatants. If the very Iraqi government isn't afraid of AQM taking over and thus demands the US to set a withdrawal timetable, why should we object?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/11/2008 11:05:30 AM
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Leon_Figg3
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I may be wrong but I do not think anyone really objects to a timetable. I believe that it is this notion that this timetable needs to be made public is what really scares people.
The transition, or the framework of such a transition involving a timetable of sorts could and should be worked out between Iraq and the US. I do not feel that that timetable should be made public as if it was some sort of binding contract. There are too many variables. It would be best that the timetable be seen more as a guide as to how the transistion take place dependent on how fast and well Iraqi forces could weed out and deal with militaristic, destablizing threats to their country from within, as well as from without (Iran and Syria).
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/11/2008 1:55:19 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
I may be wrong but I do not think anyone really objects to a timetable. I believe that it is this notion that this timetable needs to be made public is what really scares people.
The transition, or the framework of such a transition involving a timetable of sorts could and should be worked out between Iraq and the US. I do not feel that that timetable should be made public as if it was some sort of binding contract. There are too many variables. It would be best that the timetable be seen more as a guide as to how the transistion take place dependent on how fast and well Iraqi forces could weed out and deal with militaristic, destablizing threats to their country from within, as well as from without (Iran and Syria).
A very simple question for you.
Do you agree or disagree that actions by certain US troops have been a factor contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq since the deposition of the Baath?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/11/2008 5:14:38 PM
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loloidong
Posts: 60
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: Seattle, WA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Here's some news reports from days past about Iraqis attitudes towards the American presence there.
2004 poll
2006 Poll
2007 Poll
A page linking to many other polls since 2004
But us "libs" don't care about facts so you can ignore what these numbers mean!
Oh sure polls (especially with punditry) = facts. Just like the Kerry exit polls declaring his victory. Right. But if polls are to be based at let us look at the raw numbers. I love it when someone comes to me with polls and tell me what the media thinks of it as if it is fact.
Well, read this "fact" - Iraq Opinion Poll March 2008: "This poll by D3 Systems and KA Research Ltd. concludes that Iraqi citizens feel that the situation in their country remains dire and there is little hope for improvement. The most pressing problems facing Iraqi citizens are “poor electricity supply and unemployment.” The poll argues that the “the lack of security and safety” remains the largest threat and a majority of Iraqis blame the US military as the main cause of the deteriorated security situation."
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/pollindex.htm
The poll if you really want to see it:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/poll/2008/0308opinion.pdf
The opinion on the poll (punditry) is telling us that their largest concern is poor electricity and unemployment. Then they blame it on the US. Wow, as if the only ones creating security instability and economic chaos are the Americans.
Actually what the poll contradicts this punditry. The poll does tell you that Iraqi opinions had gotten better since the surge started. From last year the "somewhat better" opinion rose by 11%, the "somewhat worse" opinion dropped by 11% and the "much worst" opinion shrunk to about 5%.
Notice also that the "very good" opinions rose by 5%, the "quite good" opinion rose by 10%, the "quite bad" shrunk by 5% and the "very bad" shrunk by 10%.
If you look down further, the opinions look even BETTER from last year. Opinions that say that the invasion was absolutely right rose by 11%
Opinions on village conditions went up from last year went up significantly.
The raw data is astounding showing more confidence on the result of US presence than what you really hear in the news. Improved confidence and opinions across the board. 80% even think that publicly associating with people of different religious doctrine is now safe (I wonder if the media or libs still thinks that Iraq is still under a civil war).
I am sure libs love the big media hype, I mean "facts". Letting them just digest the facts for you to just feed off their opinions because they are the "experts".
But if the Iraqi government wants the US to go, I have no problem with leaving. We certainly must respect that. Let them handle their own rebuilding, security and economy.
< Message edited by loloidong -- 7/11/2008 5:39:50 PM >
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/11/2008 5:22:59 PM
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loloidong
Posts: 60
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: Seattle, WA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
I may be wrong but I do not think anyone really objects to a timetable. I believe that it is this notion that this timetable needs to be made public is what really scares people.
The transition, or the framework of such a transition involving a timetable of sorts could and should be worked out between Iraq and the US. I do not feel that that timetable should be made public as if it was some sort of binding contract. There are too many variables. It would be best that the timetable be seen more as a guide as to how the transistion take place dependent on how fast and well Iraqi forces could weed out and deal with militaristic, destablizing threats to their country from within, as well as from without (Iran and Syria).
A very simple question for you.
Do you agree or disagree that actions by certain US troops have been a factor contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq since the deposition of the Baath?
Why use the word "contributing"? Since we are blaming American Troops for "contributing" to the violence, might as well say that these men incited violence from otherwise docile sectarian members.
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/11/2008 10:33:20 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 480
Joined: 4/24/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
I may be wrong but I do not think anyone really objects to a timetable. I believe that it is this notion that this timetable needs to be made public is what really scares people.
The transition, or the framework of such a transition involving a timetable of sorts could and should be worked out between Iraq and the US. I do not feel that that timetable should be made public as if it was some sort of binding contract. There are too many variables. It would be best that the timetable be seen more as a guide as to how the transistion take place dependent on how fast and well Iraqi forces could weed out and deal with militaristic, destablizing threats to their country from within, as well as from without (Iran and Syria).
A very simple question for you.
Do you agree or disagree that actions by certain US troops have been a factor contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq since the deposition of the Baath?
Point #1. I do not think the situation in Iraq is as simple as you would like to believe it is. Neither is your question.
Point #2. I totally disagree that actions of certain US troops have been factors in contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq. I believe the Iraqis are smarter than many anti-war Americans in that, because of their experiences, they are well aware that in time of conflict terrible situations arise, mistakes are made, and some people do things that they probably didn't intend to do.
< Message edited by Leon_Figg3 -- 7/12/2008 12:57:04 AM >
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/12/2008 12:44:50 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Do you agree or disagree that actions by certain US troops have been a factor contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq since the deposition of the Baath?[/font][/size]
Do you believe the media's sensationalizing such stories in an effort to bash the President had anything to do with future issues that arose from these incidents?
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/12/2008 4:21:25 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1622
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quote:
ORIGINAL: loloidong
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
I may be wrong but I do not think anyone really objects to a timetable. I believe that it is this notion that this timetable needs to be made public is what really scares people.
The transition, or the framework of such a transition involving a timetable of sorts could and should be worked out between Iraq and the US. I do not feel that that timetable should be made public as if it was some sort of binding contract. There are too many variables. It would be best that the timetable be seen more as a guide as to how the transistion take place dependent on how fast and well Iraqi forces could weed out and deal with militaristic, destablizing threats to their country from within, as well as from without (Iran and Syria).
A very simple question for you.
Do you agree or disagree that actions by certain US troops have been a factor contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq since the deposition of the Baath?
Why use the word "contributing"? Since we are blaming American Troops for "contributing" to the violence, might as well say that these men incited violence from otherwise docile sectarian members.
No, I am saying that US troops are a factor in the violence, even if on certain occasions they were acting without the intention to kill anybody other than combatants.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/12/2008 4:25:04 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1622
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
Point #1. I do not think the situation in Iraq is as simple as you would like to believe it is. Neither is your question.
Point #2. I totally disagree that actions of certain US troops have been factors in contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq. I believe the Iraqis are smarter than many anti-war Americans in that, because of their experiences, they are well aware that in time of conflict terrible situations arise, mistakes are made, and some people do things that they probably didn't intend to do.
I unfortunately have never considered the Iraqi Quagmire to be a simple war. It is a very complex war taking place in a very complex place, the intricacies of which George W. Bush was ignorant of and which his administration apparently was as well. That the man didn't know there were 2 sects of Islam (Shia and Sunni) speaks loudly enough.
As for #2, then we will have to disagree. If you think Iraqis will not seek revenge when they see US troops dragging away suspected insurgents or killing Iraqis (even in combat), then I think it's unreasonable to think that Iraqi anger would not be stoked. They are after all a people under foreign occupation. Say what you wish about Iraqi sovereignty, until the last foreign soldier has been withdrawn, Iraq is still OCCUPIED and that is a humiliating experience.
As for the smarts of anti-war Americans, I guess it was those same smarts which led them to be skeptical of the now debunked claims that the Bush administration used for war and which many pro-war Americans thoroughly and utterly accepted as factually correct.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/12/2008 4:26:19 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1622
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Do you agree or disagree that actions by certain US troops have been a factor contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq since the deposition of the Baath?
Do you believe the media's sensationalizing such stories in an effort to bash the President had anything to do with future issues that arose from these incidents?
Er, you answer my question first and then I'll answer yours. Fair enough?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/12/2008 5:16:21 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Do you agree or disagree that actions by certain US troops have been a factor contributing to sectarian violence in Iraq since the deposition of the Baath?
Do you believe the media's sensationalizing such stories in an effort to bash the President had anything to do with future issues that arose from these incidents?
Er, you answer my question first and then I'll answer yours. Fair enough?
Well then my answer to your question actually involves my own question. I believe that what the certain very small percentage of US troops did to the certain very small percentage of prisoners was horrible. I disagree that these actions in themselves were responsible for any increase in violence against our troops in Iraq. It is the media's drive to demonize our soldiers and push to display every move in a bad light that could be the cause of an increase in violence. The media in this country has done more to hurt the cause of the soldiers over there than anything else.
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RE: Iraq Leadership Wants Timetable For US Troop Departure - 7/13/2008 12:26:55 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1622
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
Well then my answer to your question actually involves my own question. I believe that what the certain very small percentage of US troops did to the certain very small percentage of prisoners was horrible. I disagree that these actions in themselves were responsible for any increase in violence against our troops in Iraq. It is the media's drive to demonize our soldiers and push to display every move in a bad light that could be the cause of an increase in violence. The media in this country has done more to hurt the cause of the soldiers over there than anything else.
Sophie11,
I believe, then, that we will have to agree to disagree.
Iraqis are a very proud people and there is somewhat of a culture of honor and justice there. Far be it from me to simplify what is a very complex country containing tribal, local, and religious traditions and customs, but it is safe to say that Iraqis qualify under what can be described as a "traditional society."
Now, you claim it was a small % of US troops doing horrible things to a "very small percentage of prisoners," and this is most probably an allusion to Abu Gharib. As despicable, perverted, sadistic, and horrifying as those events were, I am referring to instances where the US military, whether in the form of firepower employed in missions (housesearches or firefights) or via conduct unworthy of a person wearing the flag and uniform of our country's colors, was guilty of actions that would have infuriated the average Iraqi. And the desire for revenge would have been a logical factor in this equation.
As for the media, I will say this: if they reported each and every act of violence that has happened in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein - every firebombing, every kidnapping, every suicide bombing, every Iraqi-on-Iraqi internecine firefight... because not all are reported... we would be literally flooded with reports of violence.
Now, I must keep my word, and answer your question, which was, "do you believe the media's sensationalizing such stories in an effort to bash the President had anything to do with future issues that arose from these incidents?"
I don't think they were sensationalized, and I think efforts to "bash" Bush were not related to the media. If anything the media was quite compliant from the summer of 2002 leading up to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. Finally, Bush himself said on July 2, 2003, "bring them on," and he was later heavily criticized because the Iraqi insurgents took him seriously and attacked our soldiers with a vengeance after he said that. As commander-in-chief and chief executive of our military and government respectively, that sounds like a pretty irresponsible and thoughtless thing to say if you ask me - and I don't think you will disagree considering we have lost over 4000 of our finest men and women in uniform, not to mention dozens of thousands of others who have suffered serious injuries/wounds.
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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