RE: How is Jesus God if God is Jesus' Father? (Full Version)

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Piff. -> RE: How is Jesus God if God is Jesus' Father? (7/25/2008 12:23:15 PM)

It's pretty clear what the scriptures says. Jesus is the visibile image of an invisible God.

God is unseen. Jesus had a physical body that was able to be looked upon by human eyes, he was the physical embodiment of his divine pre-mortal self. The divine nature of Jesus Christ isn't in question here, rather whether or not Jesus and Heavenly Father are perceived as two personages or one.

To draw the conclusion from this scripture that they are in fact one personage as opposed to two, leaves a good portion of the NT that would need to be re-evaluated. The OT uses the world "image" in the same context that is being used here to describe man in general. Should we also draw the conclusion from such that we are in fact the same personage as Heavenly Father? The scriptures make countless references, specifically the Gospels, to the dintinction between Jesus and his Father. Do you dispute such evidience?



bob97 -> RE: How is Jesus God if God is Jesus' Father? (7/25/2008 1:44:22 PM)

Thanks for you answer Piff...

So we agree that Christ is the physical extension of God, whom is without form and invisible. We agree that they both have the same nature, will and mind.

I also agree that Christ exist independently as the physical manifestation of God and I think we would agree that he Holy Spirit is the will of the Father which is manifested through Christ into the physical world.

Would we agree or disagree?

Bob



Piff. -> RE: How is Jesus God if God is Jesus' Father? (7/25/2008 1:55:24 PM)

I'm not sure if I follow you correctly.

as I said, I believe Jesus and Heavenly Father to be two dinstinct personages, meaning that, as the scriptures state, if we were to see them right now they would be manifest to us as two and not one. However, they are unified in will, nature and mind (as you stated) as well as purpose.

are we saying the same thing?



bob97 -> RE: How is Jesus God if God is Jesus' Father? (7/25/2008 3:29:01 PM)

God has no image other then that of Christ. God in invisible and without form which is what the bible tells us. I cannot explain it better then that because it is beyond my ability or wisdom.

Does God have form and Image in the spirit world...I don't know. It could be that every appearance of God in the OT is in fact Christ which is His visible image. Christ has existed for time without end and made the heavens.

The only time I'm aware that maybe God and Christ appear togeather is in Rev 5...it can be read that way.

For the most part my attempt to explain is to draw you out and get your opinon.

Bob



Piff. -> RE: How is Jesus God if God is Jesus' Father? (7/25/2008 3:43:49 PM)

I've already stated what my opinion or belief is.

I stated that Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are two distinct personages. I agree our understanding is limited, however the Epistles make constant reference to the idea of Jesus Christ sitting at the right hand of God as well as the numerous disctinctions Jesus makes in the Gospels. There must be something to sit at the right hand of, regardless whether this is a metaphorical/symoblic notion, there still must be something be in the presence of.

Also, I didn't state that throughout the Bible Jesus and Heavenly Father have appeared together as seperate. I said the my understanding can be illustrated with the hypothetical situation of Jesus and Heavenly Father appearing to us right now, that they would do so as two seperate personages.

Furthermore, Heavenly Father has an image of his own... whether or not that image is temporal in nature, I would say a definitive no. But he has an image none the less. We know this from the one of the most basic and fundamental books in the Bible... Genesis. That image is in the similitude of Jesus Christ, however again... the disctinctions between the two have been made throughout the Bible.

Also, I would appreciate it if in the future, rather than trying to coerce me to state an opinion or stance, if you would merely ask me directly for clarification on my posts or statements. I'm a pretty open guy.



bob97 -> RE: How is Jesus God if God is Jesus' Father? (7/25/2008 9:53:19 PM)

Thanks Piff...we agree of course, both God and Christ exist at the same time because they are both eternal.

I just take the opportunity to increase my understanding of God and enjoy the understanding of others when ever I get the chance.

Bob



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