Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Theology] >> Morality & Ethics



Message


dawgfan42 -> Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/12/2008 9:58:13 PM)

I was wondering something. As Christians we are fervent against abortion and more concerned toward the unborn. But I was looking at this one avatar that caught my attention. One in six children in the U.S. live in poverty. Meaning they do not have a place to live or enough food to eat. So I asked my fiance why are we more worried about the unborn than we are about children who really need a place to live and food?




earthless -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/12/2008 10:00:48 PM)

Is that really true though? A lot of concern, time and money (from Christians) goes to those considered poor in the U.S.

And yet the poorest poor here live like kings compared to the truly poor of other nations. Our poorest poor usually have several televisions, IPods, cell phones, XBOX360's, cars with expensive rims, latest jeans and kicks (gym shoes), etc..




Sideways -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/12/2008 10:04:38 PM)

We are better off then many nations, but our poorest poor do not have food to eat, basic shelter, medical care. A reality check here, please.




earthless -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/12/2008 10:06:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sideways

We are better off then many nations, but our poorest poor do not have food to eat, basic shelter, medical care. A reality check here, please.


I guess this city I live in is the rarity in all of the nation - the "poorest poor" here live better than a lot of hard working people who do all they can to make ends meet.

Some people who are labeled as "poor" in this country and receive TONS of government assistance have nicer clothing, cars and newer electronic gadgets than me.. a working, responsible citizen.

Reminds me of my time volunteering in a church food pantry.. many of those that would come every week for the free bags and bags of groceries would have on the latest gym shoes, clothing, and cell phones, with their nails done and their hair as well.... and have us take their bags of free stuff to their SUVS, etc..

Heh.




Peter_Gunn -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/12/2008 10:48:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sideways

We are better off then many nations, but our poorest poor do not have food to eat, basic shelter, medical care. A reality check here, please.


I guess this city I live in is the rarity in all of the nation - the "poorest poor" here live better than a lot of hard working people who do all they can to make ends meet.

Some people who are labeled as "poor" in this country and receive TONS of government assistance have nicer clothing, cars and newer electronic gadgets than me.. a working, responsible citizen.

Reminds me of my time volunteering in a church food pantry.. many of those that would come every week for the free bags and bags of groceries would have on the latest gym shoes, clothing, and cell phones, with their nails done and their hair as well.... and have us take their bags of free stuff to their SUVS, etc..

Heh.


Amen, Earthless! I have always been fascinated when I see people, in the grocery line, using food stamps, that have long, fake nails, tons of makeup, expensive-looking hair-dos, etc.

But, as for the question of why we are so concerned with the unborn...it's because when mere people take on the task of saying who lives and who doesn't, it affects us all. We are all at risk then. If we sit idly by and let judges say we can kill unborn babies, then they'll eventually start allowing the elderly (thus unproductive, inconvenient and economically and socially "dead") to be killed off, too. All in the name of "euthanasia". So, we'd better be concerned about where it's all starting now...with the unborn.




BerianAardvark -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 1:20:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawgfan42

I was wondering something. As Christians we are fervent against abortion and more concerned toward the unborn. But I was looking at this one avatar that caught my attention. One in six children in the U.S. live in poverty. Meaning they do not have a place to live or enough food to eat. So I asked my fiance why are we more worried about the unborn than we are about children who really need a place to live and food?


The unborn are absolutely helpless, unable to speak or do anything for themselves, and those are the ones that we are especially called upon to look after because they have no one else to act as their advocate, and absolutely no way to speak for themselves (unlike the poor).

Take a trip outside of the USA, and outside of the tourist areas, see how the real poor live out their lives. Do you know that the average annual income for most of the worlds population is $500?

The average person in third world countries (outside of the cities) lives in a house with a dirt floor, no electricity, and no running water.

The others who posted here weren't kidding even a little when they said even the poorest of people here in the states live (comparatively) like royalty.

Tim




McFatty -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 2:10:06 AM)

While I don't agree with handing stuff out, I'd still rather have the poor get their stuff for free than suffer and die.




fiat_lux -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 7:34:32 AM)

quote:

I was wondering something. As Christians we are fervent against abortion and more concerned toward the unborn. But I was looking at this one avatar that caught my attention. One in six children in the U.S. live in poverty. Meaning they do not have a place to live or enough food to eat. So I asked my fiance why are we more worried about the unborn than we are about children who really need a place to live and food?

I think you should avoid generalizing too much. The last group I worked with, recently, were mostly Catholics, and it was a group which did both poverty and pro-life activisim. I personally am not more worried about one group of those who suffer than another, and I sense from your post that you are not either. Yet we are both Christians. And I am sure that there are many like us on these forums. Probably most people here, actually.

quote:

But, as for the question of why we are so concerned with the unborn...it's because when mere people take on the task of saying who lives and who doesn't, it affects us all. We are all at risk then. If we sit idly by and let judges say we can kill unborn babies, then they'll eventually start allowing the elderly (thus unproductive, inconvenient and economically and socially "dead") to be killed off, too. All in the name of "euthanasia". So, we'd better be concerned about where it's all starting now...with the unborn.

We already, in our societies, have a variety of means by which "mere people" take on this task of meting out death. It doesn't start just with abortion.

quote:

The unborn are absolutely helpless, unable to speak or do anything for themselves, and those are the ones that we are especially called upon to look after because they have no one else to act as their advocate, and absolutely no way to speak for themselves (unlike the poor).

Poor children have basically no way to speak on their behalf, so I think this really ought to apply to that issue too.

quote:

The others who posted here weren't kidding even a little when they said even the poorest of people here in the states live (comparatively) like royalty.

I can't speak for where you live, but I know that where I live there are a number of people who do not live in any way like royalty. Many of them are homeless. Some of those homeless are youths. Othesr are not quite homeless but are totally or partially dependent on others just for subsistence. For every "poor" person living in relative comfort, I can find another who is not.




theo_book -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 7:50:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Our poorest poor usually have several televisions, IPods, cell phones, XBOX360's, cars with expensive rims, latest jeans and kicks (gym shoes), etc..


You're kidding....RIGHT???

i know poor people who actually miss meals so that their little ones can have one. I know poor who have children with NO possessions. I know poor who not only have no possessions, but no place to put them if they had some.

How can those you described be "poor?"

And yes, I've seen the pictures of those "african children sitting on dirt floors in wattles mud huts and shacks." But we have the same degree of poor in this country also.




earthless -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 8:32:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Our poorest poor usually have several televisions, IPods, cell phones, XBOX360's, cars with expensive rims, latest jeans and kicks (gym shoes), etc..


You're kidding....RIGHT???

i know poor people who actually miss meals so that their little ones can have one. I know poor who have children with NO possessions. I know poor who not only have no possessions, but no place to put them if they had some.



And all of that is in the United States?




fiat_lux -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 8:38:35 AM)

quote:

And all of that is in the United States?

Are there no homeless people in the United States? None who cling to a shelter with every cent they have to avoid having their children on the street? Your country is truly blessed with prosperity, then.




earthless -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 8:42:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fiat_lux

quote:

And all of that is in the United States?

Are there no homeless people in the United States? None who cling to a shelter with every cent they have to avoid having their children on the street? Your country is truly blessed with prosperity, then.


Yes, we have homeless and we also have a plethora of government and non-profit services and organizations to help them get on their feet. But as a cop I know that many of the true homeless are either drug addicts and or mentally ill - so they do receive help from social services and the like, but they have other issues besides a lack of a job, etc.

My comments are that, in the United States, the average "poor" live like kings compared to the true poor of third world countries.




BerianAardvark -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 9:37:52 AM)

quote:

I was wondering something. As Christians we are fervent against abortion and more concerned toward the unborn. But I was looking at this one avatar that caught my attention. One in six children in the U.S. live in poverty. Meaning they do not have a place to live or enough food to eat. So I asked my fiance why are we more worried about the unborn than we are about children who really need a place to live and food?


quote:

fiat_lux I think you should avoid generalizing too much. The last group I worked with, recently, were mostly Catholics, and it was a group which did both poverty and pro-life activisim. I personally am not more worried about one group of those who suffer than another, and I sense from your post that you are not either. Yet we are both Christians. And I am sure that there are many like us on these forums. Probably most people here, actually.


You are right there, it is incumbent upon us to advocate for ALL of those who are in need. But the Lord puts some more strongly on one person's heart than another in part because there are so many.

quote:

But, as for the question of why we are so concerned with the unborn...it's because when mere people take on the task of saying who lives and who doesn't, it affects us all. We are all at risk then. If we sit idly by and let judges say we can kill unborn babies, then they'll eventually start allowing the elderly (thus unproductive, inconvenient and economically and socially "dead") to be killed off, too. All in the name of "euthanasia". So, we'd better be concerned about where it's all starting now...with the unborn.


quote:

fiat_lux We already, in our societies, have a variety of means by which "mere people" take on this task of meting out death. It doesn't start just with abortion.


No, but abortion was the first to be granted legitimacy and turned into a multi-million dollar "industry". A blow struck at it will have a "ripple effect" on the others, just as legitimatizing the one encouraged/opened the door for the others.

quote:

The unborn are absolutely helpless, unable to speak or do anything for themselves, and those are the ones that we are especially called upon to look after because they have no one else to act as their advocate, and absolutely no way to speak for themselves (unlike the poor).


quote:

fiat_lux Poor children have basically no way to speak on their behalf, so I think this really ought to apply to that issue too.


It does, and for many years abortion advocates applied it with their own spin....why bring an unwanted baby into a world where they will live a poor and desolate life? At least the living have opportunities to improve their lot, not so the aborted.

quote:

The others who posted here weren't kidding even a little when they said even the poorest of people here in the states live (comparatively) like royalty.


quote:

fiat_lux I can't speak for where you live, but I know that where I live there are a number of people who do not live in any way like royalty. Many of them are homeless. Some of those homeless are youths. Othesr are not quite homeless but are totally or partially dependent on others just for subsistence. For every "poor" person living in relative comfort, I can find another who is not.


The unborn are even more dependent upon others for their subsistence, and they have no shelters available when the "owner" or their current residence decides the do some "Dusting and Cleaning" (a rather cynical euphemism for Dilation and Cutage, the medical term for the standard means of abortion).

The poor in America (even those who are homeless) have at least some sort of safety net available, those in most of the rest of the world have absolutely none. It is relative to them that the American poor and homeless live well, no one has mean to infer that the poor here don't suffer deprivation, but ralative to others i the world they have many more options.

Tim




theo_book -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 9:40:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
Our poorest poor usually have several televisions, IPods, cell phones, XBOX360's, cars with expensive rims, latest jeans and kicks (gym shoes), etc..


You're kidding....RIGHT???

i know poor people who actually miss meals so that their little ones can have one. I know poor who have children with NO possessions. I know poor who not only have no possessions, but no place to put them if they had some.



And all of that is in the United States?


Absolutely!




theo_book -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 9:44:14 AM)

quote:

(BerianAardvark) At least the living have opportunities to improve their lot, not so the aborted.


'j'ever wonder what life would be for us today if Jesus, child of unwanted (Joseph) pregnancy had been aborted? Thank God Joseph feared God and loved Mary.




stellaluna -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 9:58:30 AM)

I'd like to see Christian families everywhere step up and foster or adopt kids with no parents. But they don't.




Sophie11 -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 10:41:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

I'd like to see Christian families everywhere step up and foster or adopt kids with no parents. But they don't.


Yes they do many times. So do non Christian families.




stellaluna -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 11:01:15 AM)

Not here they don't. We have thousands of kids that get sent to other parts of our state and other states because there aren't enough foster and adoptive families. But there is a church on every corner.

Plus, there are thousands and thousands of children in the system waiting for families. Where are they?




earthless -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 11:42:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

Absolutely!


What city/area? Because there are TONS of government and social services available.




earthless -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 11:45:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

Not here they don't. We have thousands of kids that get sent to other parts of our state and other states because there aren't enough foster and adoptive families. But there is a church on every corner.

Plus, there are thousands and thousands of children in the system waiting for families. Where are they?


Do you know how hard it is to adopt American kids? The system (liberal) is royally messed up and it is nearly impossible to adopt an American child. And when you are actually able to, the laws are so ragged that you could up having anyone from their blood family take him/her away from you in the long run.




stellaluna -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 2:42:51 PM)

So no one should try?

And what about fostering?




DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 3:11:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawgfan42

why are we more worried about the unborn than we are about children who really need a place to live and food?


Which is why I wonder why people are so quick to have children when so many right now are wasting away.




Leon_Figg3 -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 4:15:05 PM)

Where is here?

It may help you gain a better understanding of the issue if you were to investigate and find out about the fostering, and adoption laws where you are at, not to mention your state's departmentof Children and family services. there are a number of reason why children, in the "system", are sent out of state. I have a cousin who grew up in Arizona who had to go through the "system" during a difficult time in her life because she became too much for her family to handle. She had gone through a number of foster and group homes that didn'yt seem to be able to help her. She eventually was sent out of state where she ended in a home where she was able to get some help.

Now, speaking as a former foster parent and an adoptive parent let me tell you that there is a lot to consider before you undertake the task of becoming a foster parent. You have requirments and hoops that you have to go through, and agree to just to be licensed. Aside from your background being investigated, you basically sacrifice a great deal of your time (more so than a natural parent) and even some beliefs because the child is basically a ward of the court and the state, and their interests overrule yours. Then there are the kids themselves some of whom have been in the "system" long enough to know how to play the "system" in the hope of getting back to their natural parents. Then there's the money and Medicare and Social Security. Then there are the natural parents, and the "system" you have to deal with when it comes time for visits. Then there's the relationships between the foster children and your children (if you have any).

Being an adoptive parent is a little better. However, if you have a child with special needs you and that child, that individual remains under court supervision indeffinately.




theo_book -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 4:38:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

Absolutely!


What city/area? Because there are TONS of government and social services available.

quote:




earthless
Super Member





Posts: 4908
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

Absolutely!


Try Miami, Florida; Tampa, Florida; Orlando, Florida; Jacksonville, Florida;

And that is just one state.

And did you ever try to proccess a claim with ANY social service? It is just short of impossible by reason of all the hoops one is forced through to jump.

Where there used to be several hundred "street people" in the streets of these Florida cities, there are now hundreds of "street FAMILIES," including homeless children, and nobody (officially that is) gives a care. In fact they are proccessing housing foreclosures at more rapid rates as they gain in experience, dumping even more children into the streets and parks. And they do not even provide police safety for the families.




rcjames -> RE: Why are we more concerned with the unborn? (7/13/2008 4:39:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawgfan42

I was wondering something. As Christians we are fervent against abortion and more concerned toward the unborn. But I was looking at this one avatar that caught my attention. One in six children in the U.S. live in poverty. Meaning they do not have a place to live or enough food to eat. So I asked my fiance why are we more worried about the unborn than we are about children who really need a place to live and food?


dawgfan42,

You premise is flawed because living below the "Poverty line" in the USA does not mean what you assume it means.

The present "Poverty line" in the USA is $21,200 for a family of four, and that certainly does not translate into no place to live and no food.

I know many folks in my Church that are below the "Poverty line" and they do quite well in providing for their family's needs.

Thanks
RC




Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI