RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (Full Version)

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car2ner -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/21/2008 12:07:34 PM)

I've been to some wonderful contemporary services. Bluestone, it seems that it really was a misplaced to try to be "new and relevant" in a church that was already relevant to the congregation it had!

Last Sunday I sat in a pew. Mostly I've been sitting in chairs for the past couple of decades. I really like having chairs around round tables. It makes for a good place to hold coffee. A good place to write notes or draw illustrations of the service (yes, I draw in church). It made a good place for round table discussions after the service or nice ways to group up for sunday school. It was fun and relaxed and "real".

Do chairs around tables make for a good service? Not in and of themselves, they don't. I will say that I was uncomfortable in the pews. No place to put my "stuff" and not much room for my husband's legs. And coffee? No way.

The message was heartfelt and important but the terms were in "churchese". The style was distracting for me since I had become accustomed to regular everyday speech.



CoeurdeLeon_ -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/21/2008 12:43:23 PM)

My church has "co-pastors" who are brothers. My pastor does the 3 contemporary services and the one traditional service is done by his YOUNGER brother![sm=Llol.gif]



bluestone -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/21/2008 2:08:30 PM)

Thanks, Consecrated and Car2ner. I only attended there for a couple of years when this happened. Many people were deeply hurt. It was a really growing, friendly church.

The church I was a member of most of my life had the opposite problems.[8|]



Consecrated2God -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/21/2008 6:54:14 PM)

When my husband went to bible college, the professors advised all the pastoral ministries majors to wait at least six months after taking a church before making any changes. They said it takes at least that much time to build trust. They already have to deal with the change of a new pastor, they don't need to have everything changed around right off the bat. We've heeded their advice. We've been here five months now and we're just finally starting to talk about making some changes. There are some that are needed, but we don't want to change things simply for the sake of change. We also want their input and help deciding what kinds of changes to make.



ddave12000 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/21/2008 9:35:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

And at Bentley functions they sing the same choruses over and over and over, like in many churches, including one I attended for a couple of months. All for the purpose of getting people whipped up emotionally, and ready to accept what ever goo spills from the pulpit.

and I doubt any "traditional" people have come into a contemporary church and tell them to dump everything, it was "of man". However, the comteporary crowd under the directio of a new pastor did come into my home church and:

Remove the pews and put in chairs. At great expense and no real reason.
Tell the choir they were no longer needed, and put in a "praise team" that you could not be on if you were over a certain age or weight, or did not "look" the part, and dumped the organist and orchestra. Because they are not "cool". [8|] People who had invested a great part of their lives in that church were tossed aside, and told if they did not like it, they needed to find another church.

All I have experienced in that comtemporary church is arrogance, a disdain for anything of substance, fluffy sermons and boring repetitive music. I watched a live, vibrant church die off due to this stuff, and a church that truly worshipped te Lord wholeheartedly become a stage show and small audience.


Bluestone -

first, I'm sorry that you've had to go through such a negative experience.

Second, I'm sorry that because of that experience you feel justified in lumping all Christians who are into contemporary worship into a pile of rotten eggs.

What you're saying just simply isn't true of most contemporary churches or the people who attend them. Sure there are bad apples (as in every crowd) but that doesn't ruin the whole bunch.

My advice to you would be to forgive that pastor and the people who hurt you and others, move on and try to view your fellow Christians with love, the way Christ would. My wife and I went through a very painful experience at a church we were heavily involved in for a number of years and as a result we had to stop attending there. That meant a lot of broken relationships and what not. It hurt. BUT, we realize that our experience was due to the actions of only a few, and not the church or the worship style (it played a big role in the whole thing). We could have condemned the whole thing and the people in it, but that would have been foolish and un-Christ like.

take care.



ddave12000 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/21/2008 9:39:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

and I doubt any "traditional" people have come into a contemporary church and tell them to dump everything, it was "of man". However, the comteporary crowd under the directio of a new pastor did come into my home church and:





Actually, I've experienced first hand that very thing. I've heard people say with sincerity in regards to contemporary music: "can't we just pick a few songs that will be classics such as shout to the Lord to satisfy these contemporary folks? We all know that hymns are the true songs of the church."

Huh? ok. I've heard traditionalists tell contemporary folks that they're not real Christians because they like songs with guitars. Seriously?

It goes both ways.



fallenstar -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/21/2008 11:07:11 PM)

Whether or not worshipping God is fun depends on the person and their interests, and you don't HAVE to like somthing. Not having fun is'nt a sin, neither is.



Cwhzup13 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 12:40:24 AM)

Could Todd Bentley be another Jim Jones? In the early stages of his ministry there are striking similarities between Bentley and Jones. In 1955, Jones was prayed for a Latter Rain Pentecostal Conference by O.L. Jaggers who pronounced that he had a very special prophetic calling on his life. Years later when he founded the People’s Temple, Jones used faith healing to draw the masses much in the same way Bentley has in Lakeland. It may be a little premature to say Bentley is treading the same course as Jones, but I think it is a possibility we must be aware of. After all no one ever thought Jones would go to the extent he did by getting 918 people to commit suicide through drinking kool-aid laced with cyanide. Bentley’s claims show that he is very dangerous spiritually as he has placed much emphasis on angels, third heaven experiences, and has claimed experiences where his spirit left his body which is known to New Agers as astral projection. Could Bentley be even more than just a spiritual danger? Could he be leading his followers down the same course that Jim Jones led the People’s Temple in 1978 to the greatest mass cult suicide in history? I am drawing the comparisons and revealing Bentley’s false teachings at http://www.toddbentleyjimjones.blogspot.com



car2ner -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 7:19:16 AM)

quote:

Huh? ok. I've heard traditionalists tell contemporary folks that they're not real Christians because they like songs with guitars. Seriously?


My mom goes to a church of christ fellowship. They insist on worshiping with voices only, no instruments. I asked her why. She said they never gave her a reason that made any sense, but the rest of the service is very good.



ddave12000 -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 8:11:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: car2ner

quote:

Huh? ok. I've heard traditionalists tell contemporary folks that they're not real Christians because they like songs with guitars. Seriously?


My mom goes to a church of christ fellowship. They insist on worshiping with voices only, no instruments. I asked her why. She said they never gave her a reason that made any sense, but the rest of the service is very good.


I've heard of that also. The people I'm talking about are fine with instruments in worship, as long as they're an organ, a piano, or a violin...



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 10:01:35 AM)

drums and sax
satanic
evil
right out of the pit!

an them geetars, too



bluestone -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 10:04:10 AM)

I have no problem wit any instrument. Being told mine (an orchestral instrument) can not praise the Lord as well as a guitar is dumb.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 10:10:49 AM)

[:D] I actually had a pastor who got removed from the pastorate, and the absolute bottom line was that he allowed his son to play drums in the service. Yeah, they stacked other made up stuff on top of that, in order to impress the leaders that he needed to be put out, but the basis was the drums. How ridiculous. I think they thought that only kettle drums were truly sanctified. [:)]

Say, Blue -- you and I ought to have a competition: which of our churches was most ludicrous.
No, forget it. Yours may win, leaving mine in the dust. [:D]



bluestone -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 1:20:17 PM)

[:D] Sad, huh?

My opinion: Fun is okay as long as it does not detract from, or replace the hearing of the Word, or worship of our Lord.

Things I have seen totally replace preaching, prayer, and praise in a service:

Baby day. sort of a baby fashion show, it was so long there was no time for anything else. ho-hum if you don't have a baby in the show.

Graduates day. Saw it take up a whole service one time. they honored kindergarten graduates as well, which detracted from the high school grads, IMO.

Honoring a special person. An entire service arranged around Brother moneybags and all he had done for the church.[8|]



car2ner -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/22/2008 2:42:18 PM)

quote:

Baby day. sort of a baby fashion show, it was so long there was no time for anything else. ho-hum if you don't have a baby in the show.

Graduates day. Saw it take up a whole service one time. they honored kindergarten graduates as well, which detracted from the high school grads, IMO.


Being Empty Nesters, I don't mind celebrating with parents or grands but when it takes up the whole service, that is when m'love and I duck out after the singing. IMHO such celebrations should be after the service and those who want to can stick around and enjoy the festivities.



Consecrated2God -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/23/2008 8:08:55 AM)

And they call that fun? [&:] Wow, if they're going to cancel services for the sake of fun, why don't they take us all to Holiday World? [:D]



29redballoons -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/27/2008 12:05:14 AM)

Church with no instruments...


Hmmm, maybe when the denomination began, there were no people with the ability to play and the tradition was born. Lots of traditions had practical beginnings and were followed for no other reason other than because that is how "Daddy & Mama did it..."



Just my .02



Consecrated2God -> RE: Fun in church vs Holiness (7/27/2008 7:51:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29redballoons

Church with no instruments...


Hmmm, maybe when the denomination began, there were no people with the ability to play and the tradition was born. Lots of traditions had practical beginnings and were followed for no other reason other than because that is how "Daddy & Mama did it..."



Just my .02


Actually, from what I understand, they believe that we should live by the New Testament, not the Old Testament. The Old Testament mentions musical instruments in worship and the New Testament doesn't. The New Testament says to make music in your hearts, and that's why they don't have musical instruments.



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