RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit?
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 3:15:23 PM
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Diolectic
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blaspheming the Holy Spirit is knowing that it is the Holy Spirit and still calling it the work of the devil as the Pharisees did.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit must not be a one time thing, we must always be full of Him.
However, there is a difference between Him coming upon some one for a specific purpose as for one of the gifts described in 1Corinth 11
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 3:18:23 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
Baptism of the Holy Spirit must not be a one time thing, we must always be full of Him.
I agree that we must be full of the Holy Spirit - i.e. listening and obeying Him, but baptism of the Holy Spirit is like water baptism, it doesn't occur but once if it is real.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 4:14:32 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletchquote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
Baptism of the Holy Spirit must not be a one time thing, we must always be full of Him.
I agree that we must be full of the Holy Spirit - i.e. listening and obeying Him, but baptism of the Holy Spirit is like water baptism, it doesn't occur but once if it is real. Since Baptism by the Holy Spirit actualy means to be overwhelmed by Him, it must not be a one time thing. We must repededly be overwhelmed(baptized) by Him.
Or do you thing that once we are submerged in Him, we need not to stay submerged and/or be repetedly submerged in Him?
I'm not trying to argue, I just want to understand how it is a one time thing?
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 4:19:20 PM
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JimboFletch
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Then would our water baptism need to be renewed periodically?
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 4:24:39 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Then would our water baptism need to be renewed periodically?. No, that represents something totaly diferent. Baptism of water is simbollic
Water baptism represents death, baryal, and reseretion.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not simbollic of anything.
< Message edited by Diolectic -- 7/31/2008 4:47:17 PM >
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 4:53:10 PM
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TJO5
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
I disagree, TJ. Nothing in John 20 proves that the apostles received the Holy Spirit at that point. Jesus said He had to leave before the Spirit could come, so how could He have come upon the apostles while Christ was still on earth?
I don't think that God gives us certain amounts of Himself at different times. I believe He is constantly with us, to the full extent of His power in our lives. However, we are, at different times, more and less willing to let Him work though us with that power.
Jesus breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit and that is not evidence that they did?
If you would read the rest of the chapter in context you would see that Jesus had already ascended to his Father at this point in the scripture.Earlier in the narrative Jesus told the women not to touch Him as he had not yet ascended,but in this portion of the story He invites them to touch Him.
Are you aware that the word for spirit in greek (hebrew also) also can be translated wind or breath. When Jesus breathed on them He was transferring His Spirit/breath to them.
Another interesting fact about the breathing here- the same word for breathed is used only once in the LXX (septuagint)-in Genesis 2:7 where God forms man and breathes into him the breath of life. Definitely some form of impartation in the breathing.
Your contention that the Holy Spirit is always with us to the full extent of His power seems at odds with scripture as well.
We are told to be filled with the Spirit-this is something that must be done continually.
Here is an example from Acts 4- Peter and John have already received the baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 (where Peter,at that time filled with the Spirit speaks),and in this instance they pray and everyone is filled with the Holy Ghost-a new filling.
Acts 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
The baptism may have nothing to do with quantity of the Holy Spirit,but of a new relationship with Him.
yours in Christ,
T.J.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 4:58:04 PM
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TJO5
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: TJO5
I believe scripture speaks of several different baptisms.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
-Ephesians 4:4-6
I already mentioned this scripture in post #3.
It refers to a certain baptism (baptism into the body of Christ-because that is the only baptism that all believers share) in context and has nothing to do with an understanding of other baptisms.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:00:03 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
No, that represents something totaly diferent. Baptism of water is simbollic
Water baptism represents death, baryal, and reseretion.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not simbollic of anything.
Then why does John the Baptist speak of water and Spirit baptism in the same context?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:02:16 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
No, that represents something totaly diferent. Baptism of water is simbollic
Water baptism represents death, baryal, and reseretion.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not simbollic of anything.
Then why does John the Baptist speak of water and Spirit baptism in the same context? Sorry, I have brain fog today.
Please quote where he does, and I will go from there
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:02:31 PM
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Piff.
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What context are you referring to?
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:02:57 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TJO5
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: TJO5
I believe scripture speaks of several different baptisms.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
-Ephesians 4:4-6
I already mentioned this scripture in post #3.
It refers to a certain baptism (baptism into the body of Christ-because that is the only baptism that all believers share) in context and has nothing to do with an understanding of other baptisms.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
And if I have Jesus, then I have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. One baptism. The dip in the creek was only symbolic of the real baptism that occurred when I was transformed from death unto life.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:03:43 PM
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TJO5
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Piff.
Is there a difference between being baptized the Holy Spirit and the occurance between Jesus and his disciples in John 20:22?
You be the judge. The events of Acts 1 take place after Jesus breathes on the disciples in John.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
It is evident that Jesus wanted them to be baptized with the Holy Ghost despite what took place in John 20:22.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:08:40 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Jesus breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit and that is not evidence that they did?
No, it's not. You'll notice it does not say, "And then they received the Holy Spirit, like Jesus just told them to."
quote:
If you would read the rest of the chapter in context you would see that Jesus had already ascended to his Father at this point in the scripture.Earlier in the narrative Jesus told the women not to touch Him as he had not yet ascended,but in this portion of the story He invites them to touch Him.
How can you say that Jesus has already ascended? Are you suggesting Jesus came back down to earth after the ascension?
quote:
Are you aware that the word for spirit in greek (hebrew also) also can be translated wind or breath. When Jesus breathed on them He was transferring His Spirit/breath to them.
So was the Holy Spirit coming out of Jesus with each breath during His earthly ministry?
quote:
We are told to be filled with the Spirit-this is something that must be done continually.
Well... Actually, assuming you're referring to Ephesians 5, I am of the opinion that we are told to be filled by the Spirit, not with Him. But that's a subject for a different thread.
quote:
Here is an example from Acts 4- Peter and John have already received the baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 (where Peter,at that time filled with the Spirit speaks),and in this instance they pray and everyone is filled with the Holy Ghost-a new filling.
Looking at the word "fill" there, we find that it is in the aorist tense, implying a past action. It could be that Luke here is reminding Theophilus, and us, by what means they were able to speak boldly - that is, the Holy Spirit, which they already had from a past action.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:10:38 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Sorry, I have brain fog today.
Please quote where he does, and I will go from there
Better than a brain cloud. ; ) (sorry, Joe Vs. Volcano reference...)
It would be my pleasure!
Matthew 3:11
See also, Luke 3:16
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:18:22 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Jesus breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit and that is not evidence that they did?
No, it's not. You'll notice it does not say, "And then they received the Holy Spirit, like Jesus just told them to."
Excellent observation, as usual.
People get unusual theological notions when the assume scripture means much more than it states.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:19:48 PM
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Piff.
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quote:
You be the judge. The events of Acts 1 take place after Jesus breathes on the disciples in John.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
It is evident that Jesus wanted them to be baptized with the Holy Ghost despite what took place in John 20:22.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
So then you're implying that receiving the Holy Spirit and being baptized of the Holy Spirit are two different things?
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:33:51 PM
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TJO5
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quote:
JimboFletch,
And if I have Jesus, then I have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. One baptism. The dip in the creek was only symbolic of the real baptism that occurred when I was transformed from death unto life.
Yep- one baptism- By the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized ---- into one body
Not water baptism,which is a second baptism included in scripture.
And
not the baptism with the Holy Spirit which scripture tells us is performed by Jesus.
Yes,Ephesians is talking about that one baptism we all share ,as I have pointed out.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:43:11 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TJO5
quote:
JimboFletch,
And if I have Jesus, then I have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. One baptism. The dip in the creek was only symbolic of the real baptism that occurred when I was transformed from death unto life.
Yep- one baptism- By the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized ---- into one body
Not water baptism,which is a second baptism included in scripture.
And
not the baptism with the Holy Spirit which scripture tells us is performed by Jesus.
Yes,Ephesians is talking about that one baptism we all share ,as I have pointed out.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
And that one baptism occurs when we are born again and the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our temple. One baptism.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 5:58:38 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Sorry, I have brain fog today.
Please quote where he does, and I will go from there Better than a brain cloud. ; ) (sorry, Joe Vs. Volcano reference...)
It would be my pleasure!
Matthew 3:11
See also, Luke 3:16 Ok, The same context is being overwhelmed & submerged.
In water & with the Holy Spirit.
John is not saying that they are the same in character or aplication.
John's truly is symbolic, whils The Holy Spirits is not.
If so, what does it symbolize?
John baptized with the baptism of repentance,(Act 19:4)
1Peter 3:21 The like figure(1Pe 3:20) unto which even baptism does also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Jesus baptizes in His Spirit for power, ability, strength, meaning, might ...ect...(Act 1:8)
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 6:34:56 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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*elbows his way into this conversation*
I encourage you for a moment to recognize a difference between the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and being "filled with the Holy Spirit." The parents of John the Baptist were "filled with the Holy Spirit." There was a prophecy saying John the Baptist would be "filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15) That doesn't mean John was baptized at birth or while a baby with the Holy Spirit. The Bible says "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit." (Luke 1:41) that was before her son was born. Zachariah was "filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied..." (Luke 1:67) This is evidence that there is some difference between the baptism of the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit.
After Jesus baptism by John the Baptist we see that he was "full of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 4:1) We are not told that he was baptized by the Holy Spirit, however we do see that the Holy Spirit came upon him at his baptism. After Pentecost we read about Peter "Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them..." Peter wasn't "again" baptized by the Holy Spirit, he was "filled" with the Holy Spirit on this occasion as others had been (Zacharias, John, etc.). Stephen was "full" of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:55), not "baptized in/with". He was "full".
Ananias words to Saul were..."that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Other places include Acts 13:9 and Acts 11:24. We see many people in the early church who were "filled" but not "baptized" by the Holy Spirit. Some of them who served God before the church was established were filled by the Holy Spirit, before the fulfillment of the promise of baptism of the Holy Spirit.
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Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 8:05:30 PM
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Giulia
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quote:
So in what manner does this water come spilling out? What practical ways does it manifest itself in the Christian's life?
It's not like that. Each has a choice as to how much fruit they will bear. For one it may be saving one from getting killed and could be in an obscure manner which no one will know about. For another it is to build a home for the orphans. For another it may be to write. Another to heal and so on. I can say for sure that practically your motivation changes from being inspired by anger, fear and anxiety to being inspired by joy and love. This is an inward happening which the individual does not will but God does the willing to change that motivation. The motivation is also selfless, with thought for the greater good rather than just for yourself. For some this may be to risk your own life in order to save someone else's. To sacrifice your own desires for the greater good in some way, to chance looking foolish for Christ's sake;
But these are the fruits. The initial spilling of water from your belly is willed by God through your total submission to Him and your willingness to sacrifice yourself to the workings of the cross. If you truly do this it will manifest chiefly in the cleansing of your sins and placing you in the path of purity. Whether you walk in it or not is your choice, but the seed has then been planted. This is the Word of God which the bible speaks of. This is the seed, which many, these days speak of as being money.
A result of the water coming from your belly is that you will have joy and this will be your strength; where once it was anger.
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Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 8:30:53 PM
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MrFribbles
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Giulia,
Where in Scripture do you see a connection with the water motif and the works we preform?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 7/31/2008 8:32:14 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
John is not saying that they are the same in character or aplication.
Then why does he not make a greater distinction? It seems that he is placing the baptisms parallel to each other, suggesting different methods, but not different basic natures.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 4:40:53 AM
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Giulia
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quote:
Giulia,
Where in Scripture do you see a connection with the water motif and the works we preform?
Nowhere MrFribbles, except, of course when it speaks about the miracles and healings that follow those who believe Mk 16:16,17 & 18. The water is the Spirit of Jesus, like when the water flowed from the rock: the Holy Spirit. The works I described are motivated by a new life in Christ; a new motivation.
In lay terms and even in psychology books it is widely known that we operate through anxiety or anger. I am saying that when the water flows (which is what happens at the baptism), your motivation will come from joy, no longer from anger or anxiety.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 8/2/2008 4:57:09 AM >
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Rejected by the world but loved by heaven
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RE: What does it mean to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit? - 8/2/2008 8:13:29 AM
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greatdivide46
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I believe that baptism by the Holy Spirit is just a figurative way of saying we receive the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. It is a baptism in the spiritual sense only. The only literal baptism that occurs in a Christian's life is baptism in water, which Paul is talking about in Ephesians 4:5 when he says there is only one baptism. However, obviously, we literally receive the Holy Spirit in our lives, but its a spiritual reception as opposed to a physical reception.
The fact that we call our reception of the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit a baptism is only incidental. (The phraseology only occurs seven times in scripture and six of those times are referring to when John compared it to his baptism in water.) Jesus Himself referred to the reception of the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit as drinking of the living water. Yet today we don't say that we must drink the living water in order to be saved.
So, I think the important thing is receiving the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives, not whether we call it a baptism, drinking of the living water, or anything else we might come up with.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
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The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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