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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 4:12:21 PM
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tapestry
Posts: 181
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From: Ontario, Canada
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yes!!!
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Joshua 24:15 B
..."As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 4:32:51 PM
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Mosesman
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I didn't say He wasn't.
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"You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
~Galatians 5:13~
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 4:56:30 PM
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justasheep
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Sounds like there's some confusion in this post about the trinity. While the word itself is never found in scripture, the doctrine is implied throughout and it remains one of the most foundational of all doctrine. Remember in Genesis 1:26, God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
Again in Isaiah 6:8 "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?"
Notice the combination of singular and plural in both of these passages, the writer I believe was trying to point out that the we and us are one in the same; The three in one. As has been previously stated when Jesus declared "before Abraham was, I AM." This alone was enough to produce enough hatred in the pharisees and scribes to want to kill Jesus right then and there. They understood exactly what he was claiming and hated him for it. If fact if Jesus weren't God then we of all people should be pittied as we are all still lost in our sin without a redeemer.
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Life is wasted if we do not grasp the glory of the cross, cheerish it for the treasure that it is, and cleave to it as the highest price of every pleasure and the deepest comfort of every pain.
John Piper
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 5:04:13 PM
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justasheep
Posts: 44
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Bibleluvindude,
Are you serious? Did you just finish reading The Divinci Code or something? You can do better than this. This Arian heresy that you are supporting has been rejected over and over by orthodox believers, and for good reason. But you probably know this and are just trying to goad us into an argument. At least the OP was being honest in addressing some of his/her misunderstandings.
_____________________________
Life is wasted if we do not grasp the glory of the cross, cheerish it for the treasure that it is, and cleave to it as the highest price of every pleasure and the deepest comfort of every pain.
John Piper
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 9:35:40 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6133
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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So which cheesy site did you copy and paste that from? As a former atheist, your arguments are embarrassing.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 10:03:32 PM
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Gloryandgrace
Posts: 434
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:
Philippians 2:8-10 * If he's a God why is he so obedient? If he was a God he wouldn't have to be obedient he would have omnipotence. Once again if he was a God, he couldn't die. And God gave him a title and exalted him. Now you have God exalting God? Also if he earned the title of Christ he actually got demoted. Because if he was God he would be above the title of Christ. Now you have God demoting God?
Biblelovindude:
Im wondering about who are your teachers? What church do you attend?
The answer to your allegations of Christ being only human is simple. When Christ came the first time and took upon Himself flesh, he was in a state of humiliation, a state called 'servant'.
Those who have an axe to grind with Christ's deity do so by quoting texts that exemplify his humanity in humility, they also quote texts that to them appear contradictory as youve done.
But the bible isnt interested in telling the side of anyone's story, God has one message and that is His own message. 1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
John was there, he clearly teaches us all, that means both of us, that Jesus Christ is the Word of life, that eternal life. John says clearly that they touched eternity, they touched God who was in the beginning with God. They handled him, they saw Him who is God in the flesh. Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John wasnt missing it, he wasnt deceived about Jesus, he knew from the Spirit of God that Jesus Christ was more than man, but God manifest in the flesh. It blew him away....so much so that in this encounter with Jesus...Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Jesus speaking of Himself says I am he that liveth and was dead and behold I am alive forevermore.
In that he says I was dead....regards his flesh as a man... in that he says..I am the first and the last... Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. This is regarding his deity.
So it takes no time whatsover to take one witness of Jesus Christ and bring forth clearly the divine and human in Jesus Christ.
Ignoring or kicking against it, compiling arguments against the divinity of Christ does not show the Spirit of the Lord is teaching you but, some other errant voice.
This text in Revelation shows Christ in his exalted state, it shows His divinity. In his humility his divinity was not so easily seen, but in his exalted state we do not make much of his humanity either.
John
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Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 10:05:35 PM
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Gloryandgrace
Posts: 434
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:
Believing Jesus Christ is God is idolatrous and is a downfall of our society
If the moderators dont check you for blasphemy and heresy, Ill do it.
John
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Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 10:51:05 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16885
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biblelovin... Just remember this. I saw you mention a time or to that something doesn't make sense to you. That doesn't make it false.
You can't believe that He's God. I can accept that. When you die and get judged, He won't. Because the bible nor God will change to fit your beliefs.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 12:23:23 AM
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justasheep
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/13/2008
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Bibleluvin,
You continue to misinterpret a host of passages. You are mistaking scripture's description of Jesus as a man, for the complete description as God incarnate. Show me a passage that clearly says that Jesus is not God without of course your twisted exegesis.
Here are several passages that clearly state just who Jesus is.
John 1: 1-3
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, [1] who is at the Father's side, [2] he has made him known.
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom"
2 Peter 1:1
To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
If you are truly a bible lover then it's incumbant upon you to study the scriptures diligently. You have not done so, but rather are trying to pick and choose certain scriptures which might if taken out of context back up your worldview. I hope you are seeing that many of us have taken your assumtions very seriously, knowing full well that God incarnate is the mystery that is alluded to in the old testament and gloriously made known in the new testament. If Jesus is not fully God then I will throw out my bible, for everything that I have believed would be predicated on a lie. I would literally die for this truth, as would many here on this forum.
_____________________________
Life is wasted if we do not grasp the glory of the cross, cheerish it for the treasure that it is, and cleave to it as the highest price of every pleasure and the deepest comfort of every pain.
John Piper
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 3:53:07 AM
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jmjphe
Posts: 80
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Yes Jesus Christ did say he was God and you can see this throughout the old and new testament. but he didnt say he was the father, because he is the son. Just as the holy spirit is God but not the son or father. This idea out there that Christ never claimed to be God is only a mechanism designed to undermine the divinity of Jesus Christ and place him as just an iconoclast jew or just a wise humanitarian, and ultimaltey downplay the Christian faith as outdated or archaic.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 5:14:17 AM
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Fortydays
Posts: 23
Joined: 4/24/2008
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Would it be fair to say that God sent himself down with limited power?
I do see in the Bible where Jesus prayed to God. Was this to set an example or what was the main purpose? Maybe it was to get direction and answers.
People could wonder why he prays to himself if Jesus and God are the same.
BUT...I believe he sent himself down with limited power and I guess praying to himself was to set examples and to get answers, because if he had limited power that was his source for information. Praying that its. OR what do any of you think of this.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 8:48:06 AM
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delete123
Posts: 945
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
Honestly I can't believe that he is God, based on what I have read and learned. The trinity was created by Constantine, and not by God inspired men of God, so I automatically do not believe in that. So I will instantly disagree with any trinitarian doctrine. And because of that I endeavored to uncover what the Bible really says about this topic. This is what I found. Blasphemy or not, I trust God to teach me his true doctrine and word. Whatever that may be.
Well Bibleloveindude~
You will need the Holy Spirit to lead you into that truth.
John14:15-17 If you love me, obey me; and I (Jesus) will ask the Father and he will give you another Comforter and he will never leave you.
HE is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit who leads all into truth.
(fyi: Constatine had nothing to do with the writings of the bible)
CRH
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 8:51:51 AM
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delete123
Posts: 945
Joined: 6/1/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fortydays
Would it be fair to say that God sent himself down with limited power?
I do see in the Bible where Jesus prayed to God. Was this to set an example or what was the main purpose? Maybe it was to get direction and answers.
People could wonder why he prays to himself if Jesus and God are the same.
BUT...I believe he sent himself down with limited power and I guess praying to himself was to set examples and to get answers, because if he had limited power that was his source for information. Praying that its. OR what do any of you think of this.
Forty Days~
I believe Jesus prayed for our benefit. In John11:42 (when Lazarus had died) He said: Jeus looked up to heaven and said: Father, thank you for hearing me. (you always hear me, of course, but I said it because of all these people standing here, so they will believe you sent me.)
Also He gave us the example of how to pray: The Lord's prayer
just MHO
CRH
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 10:04:09 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6133
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
So which cheesy site did you copy and paste that from? As a former atheist, your arguments are embarrassing.
Of course you have nothing but empty words and nothing to back it up. Or you could give me maybe 10-20 verses which could be interpreted in many different ways, when I could give you over 100 to show that he isn't God. But yea... it's pretty embarrassing I guess.
Believing Jesus Christ is God is idolatrous and is a downfall of our society.
Friend, I have been through this a hundred thousand times before. You want to be an atheist or agnostic or _____. Knock yourself out, forced love is a contradiction in terms.
Good luck.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 10:20:46 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16885
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From: NC
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Well to start you could go with where Jesus used the words I AM frequently. This was the way that God identified Himself when speaking to Moses. This was a clear sign to the people at the time that he was claiming deity.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 10:36:06 AM
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haggismuncher
Posts: 15
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Jesus is part of the 1 triune God
all of Heaven and earth is not contained in the bible
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 10:38:39 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6133
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: haggismuncher
all of Heaven and earth is not contained in the bible
But you're claiming godly events as truly His. The Bible is His Word and whatever you or me ever claim as His truth either stands or falls by Scripture.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 11:15:25 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2845
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
Do you know who was the number 2 man in heaven before Christ? Satan.
Do you know who was at the right hand of God before Christ? Satan.
Do you know who was the Bright and Morning Star before Christ? Satan.
According to the bible there is no "before Christ"!
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 11:18:08 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2845
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
Honestly I can't believe that he is God, based on what I have read and learned. The trinity was created by Constantine, and not by God inspired men of God, so I automatically do not believe in that. So I will instantly disagree with any trinitarian doctrine. And because of that I endeavored to uncover what the Bible really says about this topic. This is what I found. Blasphemy or not, I trust God to teach me his true doctrine and word. Whatever that may be.
This is a complete rewrite of History! You need to look at more reliable source, even secular (non-Christian) scholars wouldn't fall for this one.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 11:57:17 AM
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makarizo
Posts: 2980
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Jesus claimed to be God (the son of God) all along!
whether the reader understands this has more to do with the Holy Spirit than some special logic.
Mat 16:17 ...........flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Peter did not figure it out on his own, it was revealed.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
Joh 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
Joh 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
If you are not 'one of His sheep', you might think He is the Son of God, but you will never know for sure until the revelation
it's easier to understand why someone doesn't know this than it is to figure out why someone does!!
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 12:38:51 PM
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Abishua
Posts: 53
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Then how about starting by actually reading this thread? Post #4 on the first page.
"I am" was only a small part of the message given to Moses.
From NETS LXX: "I am the ONE WHO IS, tell them the ONE WHO IS has sent you."
The message given to Moses is: "the God that was, that is, and will be is sending you to the children of Isreal." This is consistent with the meaning of the Hebrew word "hayah" that was rendered "am" in English.
Jesus was not claiming diety when he said "before Abraham was, I am.
< Message edited by Abishua -- 8/2/2008 2:03:04 PM >
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/2/2008 12:40:40 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16885
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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Then why did they want to stone Him? Could it be that they understood what you do not?
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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