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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 7:32:57 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1939
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
"There are things you can do individually, though, to save energy," Obama said. "Making sure your tires are properly inflated – simple thing. But we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling – if everybody was just inflating their tires? And getting regular tune-ups? You'd actually save just as much!"
That's his energy plan? Inflate your tires? Get more tune-ups?
Candidate claims oil savings would equal new production plans
Sorry, I couldn't resist. 
He might be right. IIRC, properly inflated tires can account for as much as 3-5% of your gas mileage. Driving slower and less aggressively can improve it by as much as 10%. I've noticed modest differences in fuel economy just by going to different gas stations. If you improve your mileage by 15%, that makes the cost of a $4 gallon of gas equivalent to a $3.47 gallon of gas. Will drilling in ANWAR and elsewhere cause gas prices to drop by $0.50 / gallon?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 8:59:46 AM
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Evangel70
Posts: 554
Joined: 10/28/2006
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Barack Obama’s Plan
Reduce the Burden of Rising Gas Prices on Working Families
Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama has called on the President to enact a second round of economic stimulus to immediately put tax rebates in the pockets of American families to pay for rising energy prices. As president, Obama will enact a tax fairness agenda that provides 150 million workers a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $500 per person or $1,000 per working family.
Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation
• Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
• Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
• Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
• Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.
More Here
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 9:26:22 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
Interesting that it did not mention Obama's entire energy plan - most respectable journalists would at least put in a synopis of this instead of cherry picking one comment...But, oh yeah, we're talking about Farah's ConservativeWorldViewDaily...right - that explains everything! Hmmm...why did I even read it?!
Yup, Farah's site is called "WorldNutDaily" for a reason: it's a living joke, as is it's chief editor.
Evangel70: Thanks for that posted list.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 9:31:55 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1964
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation
• Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
• Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
See, I normally like Obama, but I think he's being a bit foolish here.
In other news, various hedge funds have relocated to the Cayman Islands where they can manipulate the oil market with impunity from US law- and spend their ill-gotten gains in a country with no income taxes.
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 9:33:03 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5585
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Barack Obama’s Plan
Reduce the Burden of Rising Gas Prices on Working Families
Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama has called on the President to enact a second round of economic stimulus to immediately put tax rebates in the pockets of American families to pay for rising energy prices. As president, Obama will enact a tax fairness agenda that provides 150 million workers a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $500 per person or $1,000 per working family.
Crack Down on Excessive Energy Speculation
• Fully Close the “Enron Loophole”. One of the reasons our energy market is particularly vulnerable to excessive speculation is the so-called “Enron Loophole” which prevents the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) from fully overseeing the oil futures market. As president, Barack Obama will fully close the Enron loophole by requiring that U.S. energy futures trade on regulated exchange to crack down on any excessive speculation in the energy market.
• Ensure That U.S. Energy Futures Cannot be Traded on Unregulated Offshore Exchanges. Barack Obama will limit the price impacts of excessive speculation by preventing traders of U.S. crude oil from routing their transactions through off-shore markets in order to evade speculation limits and also impose reporting requirements.
• Work with Other Countries to Coordinate Regulation of Oil Futures Markets. Barack Obama believes we must work with our other countries to establish uniform approaches to avoiding excessive speculation in commodities futures markets. This effort will help ensure that as the U.S. strengthens oversight and transparency in U.S. exchanges, these efforts are not undermined by overseas trading subject to lax regulations.
• Call on the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice to Vigorously Investigate Market Manipulation in Oil Futures. Barack Obama does not believe we cannot afford to wait weeks and months more to vigorously investigate whether energy traders and oil companies manipulating the market at the expense of consumers. He is calling on the FTC to immediately expedite its investigation into market manipulation, including in the oil futures markets.
More Here
Well it does seem that putting air in your tires in the most sensible part of his plan.
All the rhetoric listed above will do nothing but bring about more regulation, more government, and of course more taxes to pay for it all.
Oh yea he is a demokrat, i must have forgotten for a moment.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 9:35:04 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
All the rhetoric listed above will do nothing but bring about more regulation, more government, and of course more taxes to pay for it all.
How would closing a loophole in order to reign in wild oil speculation raise taxes?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 9:39:32 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1939
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well it does seem that putting air in your tires in the most sensible part of his plan.
All the rhetoric listed above will do nothing but bring about more regulation, more government, and of course more taxes to pay for it all.
Oh yea he is a demokrat, i must have forgotten for a moment.
Thanks
RC
Why is more regulation necessarily a bad thing? It was the removal of a piece of regulation that allowed speculators to go wild in the first place.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 10:50:32 AM
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inthysite
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I knew that this would start a firestorm but I couldn't resist. While I know that this isn't NObama's entire energy plan I thought this statement just shows that NObama has no clue.
quote:
But we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling – if everybody was just inflating their tires? And getting regular tune-ups? You'd actually save just as much!"
We can save enough energy by inflating our tires? Enough to match what we would get from drilling? Please!
quote:
He might be right. IIRC, properly inflated tires can account for as much as 3-5% of your gas mileage. Driving slower and less aggressively can improve it by as much as 10%. I've noticed modest differences in fuel economy just by going to different gas stations. If you improve your mileage by 15%, that makes the cost of a $4 gallon of gas equivalent to a $3.47 gallon of gas. Will drilling in ANWAR and elsewhere cause gas prices to drop by $0.50 / gallon?
First, NObama didn't say anyting about conservation in that statement, only inflate tires and tune up your car. These two things, according to NObama will save the same about of energy as would be produced by drilling.
I agree that properly inflated tires help improve gas mileage but this is assuming that everyone is driving on under-inflated tires. Most people take proper care of their cars so I doubt we would see the increased savings mentioned by NObama.
And as to whether drilling will lower prices, well just talking about drilling has helped to bring down prices by about 20 cents in the last several weeks.
The day Bush removed the presidential ban on offshore drilling prices started coming down. When speculators see even a remote possibility of either an increase or decrease of future oil they adjust the prices accordingly.
Just look what happened when Israel threatened to bomb Iran, prices jumped. Nothing happened but prices went up. Bush removes the president's ban on offshore drilling and prices drop. Again, nothing happened, no new drilling, no new oil, but speculation about future supply increasing helped to bring down prices.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 11:19:49 AM
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Dubya
Posts: 1033
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
I agree that properly inflated tires help improve gas mileage but this is assuming that everyone is driving on under-inflated tires. Most people take proper care of their cars so I doubt we would see the increased savings mentioned by NObama.
I also agree - and I agree that many more people take care of their cars than Obama implies. The problem is one of scale - Obama's statement is based on everyone driving on under-inflated tires and cars which need a tune up. Secondly, the savings projections are very optimistic making the savings projections highly inflated. Thirdly, it is being assumed that these highly optimistic savings numbers are actually conservative.
Regarding his other policy proposals, the question would asked how they would raise taxes - well increased regulation always means more spending. If we hold Obama to his word about balancing the budget it will absolutely involve an increase in taxes.
The issue of oil speculation has been highly inflated for political purposes. Speculation, at best, will increase the world wide price of oil only marginally and market conditions always bring equilibrium back to the market. This is true smoke and mirrors proposed by Obama.
The price of oil is controlled by the market - supply and demand. Reducing demand by being smarter stewards of our resources is always the best first step but it is ridiculous to think that is all we can do. Increased supply in the market through domestic exploration and development and production will have a real market-based impact on the price of crude oil. Why doesn't Obama and the rest of the democrats see that?
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 12:16:52 PM
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cow451
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There is no "painless" way to address the energy problem Too many want a fast, convenient solution. Neither plan will substantially reduce oil prices. At best, whichever plan may level out prices or slow the increases. Hydrogen won't be free because of the technology required. Solar isn't free for the same reason. Nuclear, same.
The issue is which candidate has the better overall approach and can work toward bipartisan legislation and sell conservation and production to the average American. Asking for individuals to do their part is not an easy sell.
Right now, I go with McCain because he can wrangle with Congress. If Obama gets in with the Dems holding both houses of Congress (a definite possibility), I fear there will be lots of knee-jerk activity that will not get us where we need to go. McCain can handle the Dems if they have both Houses.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 12:18:43 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3959
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well it does seem that putting air in your tires in the most sensible part of his plan.
All the rhetoric listed above will do nothing but bring about more regulation, more government, and of course more taxes to pay for it all.
Oh yea he is a demokrat, i must have forgotten for a moment.
Thanks
RC
Why is more regulation necessarily a bad thing? It was the removal of a piece of regulation that allowed speculators to go wild in the first place.
-Dan.
Regulation is like medicine. When it's needed, it's good. When unnecessary, it's bad. And, there are often some degrees of side effects.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 12:26:24 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1033
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
There is no "painless" way to address the energy problem Too many want a fast, convenient solution. Neither plan will substantially reduce oil prices. At best, whichever plan may level out prices or slow the increases. Hydrogen won't be free because of the technology required. Solar isn't free for the same reason. Nuclear, same.
The issue is which candidate has the better overall approach and can work toward bipartisan legislation and sell conservation and production to the average American. Asking for individuals to do their part is not an easy sell.
Right now, I go with McCain because he can wrangle with Congress. If Obama gets in with the Dems holding both houses of Congress (a definite possibility), I fear there will be lots of knee-jerk activity that will not get us where we need to go. McCain can handle the Dems if they have both Houses.
I agree with this.
As I recall the seventies, the first Arab Oil embago was in 1973 - when Nixon was president. His solutions were ineffective, lower the speed limit, odd-even days for filling your gas tank, etc. The next one came in 1979 when Carter was president. He, like Obama, urged the nation to fill their tires with air, car-pool, etc.
The interesting thing was that exploration was going on like gangbusters during the seventies - world wide! Production was even increasing in California! Prices began falling when the North Slope production came up to speed, the North Sea production came on shortly after, and significant production came on line from other non-OPEC nations such as Mexico and Malaysia. The conservation efforts amounted to next to nothing compared with the rapid increase in world wide production. I think we should learn from history.
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:04:39 PM
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saved9201
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Meanwhile, have we forgotten John McCain's energy plan ?:
Let's have a contest and whoever can invent the bestest battery, gets a $300 million prize.
But y'all laughed at Obama suggesting people to take better care of their vehicles.
Imagine if the "$300 million dollar battery bounty" had been Obama's proposal.
- Julius
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:06:51 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
Imagine if the "$300 million dollar battery bounty" had been Obama's proposal.
Very good point. Talk radio and the RNC stoolies over at Fox would have torn Obama to shreds for suggesting such an idea.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:11:38 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1033
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Meanwhile, have we forgotten John McCain's energy plan ?:
Let's have a contest and whoever can invent the bestest battery, gets a $300 million prize.
But y'all laughed at Obama suggesting people to take better care of their vehicles.
Imagine if the "$300 million dollar battery bounty" had been Obama's proposal.
- Julius
You have a very good point.
I must admit I really groaned when I heard that battery proposal of McCain's.
But my point remains, without increasing supply the price of oil, ultimately, has no where to go but up. At least McCain is endorsing increased drilling. I am not sure if he has loosened up on ANWR yet. He used to be opposed to that.
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:18:44 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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Why the heck aren't the oil companies committed to drilling on the offshore leases which already exist instead of plunging after a hoards of new ones which may (or may not) produce anything?
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In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:27:10 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5585
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451.
Regulation is like medicine. When it's needed, it's good. When unnecessary, it's bad. And, there are often some degrees of side effects.
I must disagree on one minor point; governmental regulations always raises taxes to pay for the regulators and the effects of that regulation.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:29:16 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5585
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Why the heck aren't the oil companies committed to drilling on the offshore leases which already exist instead of plunging after a hoards of new ones which may (or may not) produce anything?
Well duh!!!!
They have already done exploration and are drilling in all places that are productiove.
Here is a New flash; there in not producable oil underneath every square mile of land on the surface.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:35:49 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
They have already done exploration and are drilling in all places that are productive.
So oil companies have already covered the tens of millions of offshore acres currently under lease?
I find that incredibly hard to believe.
Further, why would these companies continue to pay for leases on which no oil exists? Why hold onto them if they're worthless for mineral exploration?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:36:08 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1033
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Why the heck aren't the oil companies committed to drilling on the offshore leases which already exist instead of plunging after a hoards of new ones which may (or may not) produce anything?
Well duh!!!!
They have already done exploration and are drilling in all places that are productiove.
Here is a New flash; there in not producable oil underneath every square mile of land on the surface.
Thanks
RC
This is true.
Rather than asking "Why aren't the oil companies committed to drilling on the offshore leases which already exist?" the question should be: "What are the oil companies going to gain by not drilling in existing leases?" The obvious answers are, as RC said, not all leases have producable oil. Secondly, leases expire. If the company does not begin producing within a time frame they will lose the lease.
There is no logical business reason for "hoarding" leases and not producing.
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RE: Obama's Energy Policy - 8/1/2008 1:42:08 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1033
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
They have already done exploration and are drilling in all places that are productive.
So oil companies have already covered the tens of millions of offshore acres currently under lease?
I find that incredibly hard to believe.
Further, why would these companies continue to pay for leases on which no oil exists? Why hold onto them if they're worthless for mineral exploration?
There are many factors which enter the decision to drill or not. Exploration does not necessarily include drilling. Exploration is expensive and the tracts need to be prioritized for exploration. If data favorable for potential production is not developed then that tract will be bypassed.
The leases are a contract. It is not like the company can simply stop paying the gov't once the lease has been given.
Other factors such as environmental approvals need to be satisfied. Just because a lease has been granted doesn't mean exploration, drilling, or production has been approved. Oil companies risk millions of dollars to get a lease in which they may never be allowed to drill.
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