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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/5/2008 10:57:45 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
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From: East Bay Area
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Thanks. Actually the backstage passes are freebies for me because I have a friend who works where they will be performing.
Yesterday she was quite chummy with me. I'm not sure if she was trying to get me to change my mind or if it was because I was buying her school stuff. Today she is back to ignoring me.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/5/2008 11:28:24 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1026
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Perhaps she is just a teenager, somewhat at the mercy of erratic emotions that seem true at the time.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/17/2008 1:07:46 AM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2939
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From: Newberg, OR
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How are things going, Roberta?
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/18/2008 2:19:21 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
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From: East Bay Area
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We just got back from a visit with my mom. DD was thrilled to get to visit with my grandmother.
She has made plans to go to IN for a visit next summer and then to TX and back to CA. She asked me if for a graduation present in 2011 if I would get her round trip Amtrak tickets so she could go out for a visit and see the countryside. I told her that I'd talk to her dad about seeing what the two of us could afford.
She's also looking very seriously at a college in Santa Cruz and another in Washington State.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/18/2008 8:42:15 AM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1758
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Roberta, have you talked to the YM and his wife an told them to back off and talk to you (the adult) and not the child? I am sorry, but I was reading through this thread again and I am actually kind of angry that the YM and his wife didn't see a HUGE red flag when they were approached by her and tell her that they needed to talk to BOTH of her parents and not her unless given permission by her parents.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/18/2008 8:58:49 AM
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Sadey
Posts: 539
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I'm with you Mrs. Tracy, but if you think about it YM and W aren't that much older than DD so thats probably why they went along with this hairbrained idea. And who know what sad story DD told them.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/18/2008 9:30:24 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2845
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dianetavegia
No judge is going to let a teenaged girl go live with a 20 year old YM and his new wife and certainly not if Mom disapproves.
The YM is way off base to even consider this. Having a 15 year old girl in the house would give an appearance of evil, which he should avoid. His discernment is 'off'.
Hang in there Roberta! School will start and she'll have a crush on some boy and not ever want to leave.
About what she said...... Our daughter once wrote me a 'mean mom' letter and I have it still. She's 33 now and we're very, very close. Now SHE has kids. 
Unfortunately, in California (and Florida) this is not true. By the age of 15 a child has the ability to pretty much choose where and with whom they would like to live, even when it is not the custodial parents. Sadder yet is the fact that "moral" issues are not even allowed to be raised during the case unless the environment becomes so bad that criminal charges can be filed.
I know this from personal experience, my wife left me and our kids to move across the country to live with a boyfriend, and eventually she divorced and remarried. For the first few years she had little contact with the kids, but after her remarriage she began a campaign to get my daughter to come out and live with her. She convinced my daughter that she was mature enough to not have any rules, and that if she moved out there she would be treated as an adult and would not have rules at all. After about a year it eventually worked and my daughter moved. After about 6 months, I began seeing postings on her "myspace" page where she and her friends were talking about how they were cutting school and having drinking parties at my ex-wifes home. Over the next couple of years things got progressively worse until my daughter actually did attempt suicide, and eventually in her senior year of high school she ran away. Through much of this, I did try to get custody back, but couldn't because my daughter basically had the last word as far as the courts were concerned (even after the suicide attempt and even when she was a runaway). For children under the age of 12, the parents do have a bit more say in the matter, but after the age of 15 our court systems puts the decision almost entirely in the hands of the child. IT IS WRONG, but it is the reality of our messed up court system. Fortunately that experience has scared my boys (and I think my ex as well) from trying a repeat with either of them.
Demideva,
I applaud you for standing up and being a parent, but I would encourage you to really stop and pick your battles carefully. Figure out which battles are with "dying" for and which ones you can allow some room for her to grow up and even make some mistakes. Too put this in perspective, you may be confronted by your daughter with the option to give her freedom or she will move threat. Know ahead of time exactly where your boundaries are, and which "freedoms" you cannot, for the good of your daughter, ever compromise on. And be ready to let her leave if she tries to force you to compromise. Unfortunately your daughter does have way too much control in this situation (something that she hopefully has not recognized), but be ready and know where you stand before she does come to this realization.
On a different note: The best possible place for your daughter would be with both you and your husband in a reconciled marriage. I wouldn't encourage you to go back until there was a plan in place to address the problems that got you to the place where you are at now, but I would encourage you to look for every opportunity to reconcile (if possible). I have really seen God work miracles in marriages that seemed impossible to fix, even when only one of the spouses initially committed themselves to reconciliation in a Godly way. I do know that not every marriage will be reconciled (my own marriage was an example of that), but what I do know is that committing myself to reconciliation until that was no longer a possibility turned out to be the best thing I could have done for my kids and myself. It allowed the time my kids and I needed to heal (which turned out to be much longer than I would have ever guessed); it caused me to be continually seeking God's help to forgive my ex-wife (something my kids really needed to see), etc...
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/18/2008 7:49:39 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1758
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sadey
I'm with you Mrs. Tracy, but if you think about it YM and W aren't that much older than DD so thats probably why they went along with this hairbrained idea. And who know what sad story DD told them.
Very true, but aren't they trained to keep some sort of "professional distance"? Even being close in age, they should have known to go to both parents.
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
Unfortunately, in California (and Florida) this is not true. By the age of 15 a child has the ability to pretty much choose where and with whom they would like to live, even when it is not the custodial parents. Sadder yet is the fact that "moral" issues are not even allowed to be raised during the case unless the environment becomes so bad that criminal charges can be filed.
Yes, but this child is not chosing to live with a PARENT. And I would think that a judge would tell the dad, either she lives with you. You and her mother agree that she live elsewhere, or she stays with mom. I don't think a judge can even legally take a child from one parent and put them with someone totally unrelated unless abuse is involved and there are no other parents or close family members available.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/18/2008 8:21:39 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2845
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
Yes, but this child is not chosing to live with a PARENT. And I would think that a judge would tell the dad, either she lives with you. You and her mother agree that she live elsewhere, or she stays with mom. I don't think a judge can even legally take a child from one parent and put them with someone totally unrelated unless abuse is involved and there are no other parents or close family members available.
You would think that is true, but unfortunately it is NOT! I don't think that the intent of the law was ever to allow this kind of judicial abuse, but the history of legal precedence in our wonderful state has made this a real legal option for older kids. I do think it is legally much harder if there is not a divorce involved, but once the judge starts asking the kids for their opinion almost anything can happen. In my case, when my ex-wife kicked my daughter out of her home and she was staying with "friends", I could not get a court order for custody because my daughter did not want to leave Florida. It was ruled that "in the best interest of the child" she should not be moved out of state (and she and only been living in that state for a little over a year, prior to that time she had spent her entire life here with me, and most of our extended family on both sides lives here). They didn't even ask to interview the parents of the kids she was staying with or find out anything about the environment. Although the place she was staying at had zero adult supervision, it was ruled that this was a "moral" issue and not an issue that the courts could address. Now it is possible that I could have done better if I had taken this case to trail, but then it would have cost at least $60,000 and still would only been about a 50/50 chance of winning. And after a court battle like that, even if I did "win" I would have a 17 year old girl here that would be even more resentful after having to go through a court battle like that. This kind of complete idiotic mess is the end result of our "wonderful" no fault divorce laws.
Being in different states definitely complicated things considerably, but the primary problem is the very liberal court system here in California (where the jurisdiction of the case is).
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/19/2008 9:24:30 AM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1758
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Yes, but this child will be leaving her home, school and friends, to go stay in a different state with people who are children themselves, and I hate to say it, but most states still lean towards the mother, AND if she really wanted to, it would become a civil rights issue because it is her right as a parent to have her child if the othe paren't doesn't want her living with him.
I went through this with my divorce too. My ex husband wanted my son to be with him half the time. AND coose the daycare (which would be his parents) He worked and I didn't. It made no sense to take the child out of the home where there was a parent willing to take care of him to put him in daycare even if it was another relative. They saw that as him trying to keep my child from me and that is a HUGE no no even if you are dealing with an older child.
It is a delicate balance between the rights of the parent and the welfare of the child. Eventhough this child is 15, any court (if it even gets to that) is going to tell her that she is going to have to suck it up and deal with it and she can move when she is an adult. She is already rooted with family where she is and her father doesn't even live where she wants to be, AND he is making a promise he cannot possibly keep becaues he is basing this decision on his job. He works for an airline, and that industry is very questionable and he may not be able to provide ehr with the necessary airline tickets she is going to need for travel home to either parents house. He has to be able to provide everything that he is promising.
Also, this so totally isn't going to go to court because one of these parents is going to have to file the action and on top of the money you mentioned, they are going to BOTH have to take the time off of work, go through the process which is not instant and by the time they even get there, they will be into a school year, and no judge is going to pull a kid out of school mid year, so they will have the rest of the year to fight it out. AND that is if someone files today.
Roberta, I am sure you have no worries in that regard unless he plans on doing nothing. Have you talked to the YM yet to see what their take on this whole situation was, or is it kind of a mute point by now?
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/19/2008 10:17:26 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2845
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
es, but this child will be leaving her home, school and friends, to go stay in a different state with people who are children themselves, and I hate to say it, but most states still lean towards the mother, AND if she really wanted to, it would become a civil rights issue because it is her right as a parent to have her child if the othe paren't doesn't want her living with him.
I don't think you read my post very well, my daughter did leave her home (my ex-wifes), and dropped out of High school, and yet as a 17 year old minor the courts would NOT do anything about it because she didn't want to leave the state. Again she had only been in the state for about 1 1/2 years, she had grown in in California, and most of her friends and family were in California.
quote:
I went through this with my divorce too. My ex husband wanted my son to be with him half the time. AND coose the daycare (which would be his parents) He worked and I didn't. It made no sense to take the child out of the home where there was a parent willing to take care of him to put him in daycare even if it was another relative. They saw that as him trying to keep my child from me and that is a HUGE no no even if you are dealing with an older child.
The age of your children IS the difference! When my wife first left, my kids were younger (like yours). And what I described wasn't an issue, and you are right about the courts giving preferential treatment to the woman. When my wife walked out on us, she filed for full custody and even though all of the kids wanted to live with me, they were not old enough for the courts to consider their opinion, and the court more than likely would have given her custody simply because she had been a stay at home mom and in the court's opinion, giving custody to her would have been protecting the "status quo". By God's grace I got lucky because the one thing the courts wouldn't allow was for her to take the children out of state, and so she was forced to decide between her children and her out of state boyfriend, and she chose the out of state boyfriend.
When the issue came up again just as my daughter was turning 16, it was an entirely different story. At 16 the kids have almost complete rule in the courts, the biggest factor in determining what is "best" for the child is simply whatever the child wants. If a decision can be agreed upon by both parents without a judge becoming involved, then and only then will the parents have much say, but once the judge is involved almost any crazy outcome can take place. While it is true that the courts would not likely award custody to the youth ministers directly, they likely wouldn't hesitate to award custody to the father even if they knew he was going to allow his daughter to live with the youth minister. All it would take is for the father to petition the court for custody, and the daughter to express her desire to have that change made.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/19/2008 1:20:37 PM
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dianetavegia
Posts: 2034
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Southern Baptist, Non Calvinist, Pro Life Ga. girl
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I'd go OVER the head of the Youth Minister right to the Senior Pastor. This YM needs to be spoken to about this type behavior/ involvement. I don't know the size of the church, but can you just imagine every teen who has a fuss with mom and dad wanting to move in with this kid and his new wife??
The YM should be working to heal relationships and not interfer or break down families.
_____________________________
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/19/2008 1:22:19 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6929
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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There currently is no Senior Pastor at this church.
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RE: I Feel Like My Heart is Tearing in Two. - 8/19/2008 1:30:45 PM
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Sadey
Posts: 539
Joined: 7/25/2007
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Dear Mrs. Tracy,
I agree they have probably had training but it doesn't mean they learned anything.  Most YM are young at heart, and this one may be young at mind.
Diane
Good suggestion but if they don't have a senior minister, they must have some elders or a board that she could contact.
demindiva, I love a mom with spunk.
< Message edited by Sadey -- 8/19/2008 10:32:55 PM >
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