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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/13/2008 2:46:42 PM
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JimboFletch
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I can see Him hanging with prostitutes, thieves, and the lowest "classes" of society that very, very few in "organized" religion would go near. Because He did so.
Howsumever, I can't see Him engaging in the activities He came to redeem them from. Because He did not.
That's why, try as I might, I just can't picture Jesus sucking on a lit cigarette and breathing deeply or going through nicotine withdrawal while also enduring His trial and crucifixion.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/13/2008 2:53:21 PM
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JamesL5
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quote:
original: JimboFletch
I have a pretty vivid imagination but, I'm sorry, I just can't picture Jesus sucking on a lit cigarette and breathing deeply.....or going through nicotine withdrawal while also enduring His trial and crucifixion.
Am I alone on that?
That was hilarious.  No, you are certainly not alone.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/13/2008 3:02:07 PM
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GroupW
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Suppose my annual cigar is insufficient volume to generate any serious cash for me, eh?
Bummer.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/13/2008 3:07:10 PM
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Hayseed
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I'm sure there's probably some "victim" group out there that could hook you up.
_____________________________
My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/13/2008 3:31:57 PM
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JimboFletch
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The woman taken in adultery.... the wee little, thieving tax collector... the crazy, naked, demon-possessed man living among the tombs... Every person the Lord hung with that lived in sin away and/or from the religious folk, He loved them and freed them from their bondage. Not a single case do I recall where He partook of their sin. He sometimes told them to go and sin no more. Sometimes they volunteered to repent and make restitution without His suggestion. But not once did He say, "Keep doing what you - what we - are doing but be careful next time."
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/20/2008 11:31:14 PM
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backrowbaptist
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Your puttin' up a good fight, hayseed. I've never been a smoker, but I've got a couple things to chime in with about the obesety/smoking comparison. First, a pastor who had lost 75 pounds, and was now a vegan, once told me that obesity is the only sin for which a congregation will forgive it's pastor. Food for thought, if you will.
Second, someone mentioned the WWII generation and it's smoking habits, noting that those left are now in their 80s. My point is, that generation of mostly smokers was the first generation in world history to have a significant percentage of their population to make it that far in life. If smoking is such an automatic killer, how come the life expectancy of Americans went up as the heaviest smolking generation passed through? Again, food for thought.
Third, I suspect the reason our society is having such a problem with obesity is because so few people smoke now. Humans have a need for oral pacification, so choose your poison.
Finally, my favorite talk show host, Dennis Prager, often makes a great point. He notes that years ago, you could go to a ball game and see most of the crowd smoking, but nobody cursing or fighting. Now, you see nobody smoking, but too many people cursing and fighting. He calls it moral pollution. Our priorities are out of whack.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 1:55:06 AM
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MindySue69
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I don't know - I wish Christians would stick to the real, valid sins mentioned in the Bible. If we can get those mentioned in Romans 1 under control, then we can move on to the arbitrary stuff.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 9:50:57 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Your puttin' up a good fight, hayseed. I've never been a smoker, but I've got a couple things to chime in with about the obesety/smoking comparison. First, a pastor who had lost 75 pounds, and was now a vegan, once told me that obesity is the only sin for which a congregation will forgive it's pastor. Food for thought, if you will.
Second, someone mentioned the WWII generation and it's smoking habits, noting that those left are now in their 80s. My point is, that generation of mostly smokers was the first generation in world history to have a significant percentage of their population to make it that far in life. If smoking is such an automatic killer, how come the life expectancy of Americans went up as the heaviest smolking generation passed through? Again, food for thought.
Not especially remarkable since it's their children and grandchildren that make up the bulk of the population, not them.
quote:
Third, I suspect the reason our society is having such a problem with obesity is because so few people smoke now. Humans have a need for oral pacification, so choose your poison.
As a former smoker, oral pacification is a habit that can be easily broken without physical withdrawal. Nicotine causes addiction with predictable and severe effects.
quote:
Finally, my favorite talk show host, Dennis Prager, often makes a great point. He notes that years ago, you could go to a ball game and see most of the crowd smoking, but nobody cursing or fighting. Now, you see nobody smoking, but too many people cursing and fighting. He calls it moral pollution. Our priorities are out of whack.
At least you prefaced your post with an admission of ignorance of firsthand experience... IMO, Prager made a rather stupid point. The only thing nicotine does for its addicts is stop withdrawal. It's the wihtdrawal symptoms that make smokers cranky.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 11:55:58 AM
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Hayseed
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I know a lot of people who love and follow Jesus that smoke. They actually probably do more "ministry" and work of furthering the Kingdom than most "full time ministry" folks and pastors that I see.
I'm not sure how tobacco fits in with being a master that will cause you to hate God.
_____________________________
My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 12:40:05 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hayseed
I know a lot of people who love and follow Jesus that smoke. They actually probably do more "ministry" and work of furthering the Kingdom than most "full time ministry" folks and pastors that I see.
I'm not sure how tobacco fits in with being a master that will cause you to hate God.
Come on, Hayseed, an addict of any substance is a slave to it's demands. Whether it's booze, drugs, sex, food, or nicotine.
I've been in some less than upper-crust groups, including 9 years in the Navy. In NONE of them was smoking a virtue nor was it a practice of everyone in the group. If you cannot minister to someone without a ciggy, then you have a problem, not them and not me. Just like you don't have to get falling-down drunk to minister to alcoholics - probably would cause more problems than help.
It's my opinion that you smoke because you want to smoke. Unless you are addicted like the vast majority of longterm users and simply have to smoke to keep your nicotine levels to a comfy level.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 12:46:50 PM
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MindySue69
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BUT I don't equate smoking a cigarette with "serving it" rather than serving God.
That's just a real stretch to me. A lot of people don't leave their house without a Coke or a travel mug of coffee in their hand - does that mean they're "serving Coke" instead of "Serving God?" The nature of the addiction may be different but the principle is still the same.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 12:54:16 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MindySue69
BUT I don't equate smoking a cigarette with "serving it" rather than serving God.
That's just a real stretch to me. A lot of people don't leave their house without a Coke or a travel mug of coffee in their hand - does that mean they're "serving Coke" instead of "Serving God?" The nature of the addiction may be different but the principle is still the same.
Mindy, I may have missed your point but giving up nicotine is nothing like giving up chocolate or Coca Cola. To go more than 45-60 minutes without nicotine, one begins experiencing significant withdrawal symptoms like profuse sweating, inability to think clearly, extreme irritability, just to name a few. When that state is forced on a nicotine addict, they will jeopardize their job and the safety of others to get their fix. It takes as much as 3 days to get the nicotine out of your system, serious symptoms continue for weeks, and one remains seriously susceptible to relapse for months and sometimes years. If a recovering nicotine addict caves, it may be decades - if ever - before they are willing to endure withdrawal again.
Have you ever experienced ANYTHING close to that when you skip a Coke or coffee????
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 1:04:13 PM
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MindySue69
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We're not talking about giving up an addiction or kicking a habit - we're talking about "serving" something vs. "serving God."
I said the nature of the addiction is different but the principle is the same - whether you are grasping a cigarette or a can of Coke, you have it in your hands and you WANT it...
I fail to see how smoking cigarettes keeps you from serving God, just like I can't see how drinking coffee all day keeps you from serving God.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 1:46:18 PM
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Qtman
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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Apparently I am doomed. I smoke and I never leave the house without my travel mug full of coffee and know where to replenish it on regularly taveled routes.
I agree with Jimbo about the addictive powers of nicotine. I freely admit I am addicted to it. However, I do not serve it. And it also takes quite a bit longer than 45 minutes to an hour without one to have any effect on me. I traveled with a SG group for years and never smoked at a venue or to or from the venue. I don't smoke in my vehicles nor my house. And I routinely go two, three and sometimes four hours without one.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 2:05:40 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MindySue69
I fail to see how smoking cigarettes keeps you from serving God, just like I can't see how drinking coffee all day keeps you from serving God.
Hayseed says that cigarettes HELPS him serve God and that he knows a lot of smokers that do more ministry than the preachers he sees.
Would you think it would help, hinder, or have no effect if Billy Graham smoked as he preached?
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 2:14:54 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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I'm an ex-addict, and I still don't see it as a sin, nor do I feel particularly moved to nag others into quitting. Tobacco may have been self-detrimental, gross, or any other adjective one wants to arbitrarily inject, but I never felt convicted by the Holy Spirit in any way about it, like I have SO many other things. I feel confidant that heaven will have newly minted ex-smokers within it's confines.
_____________________________
Molon Labe
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 2:29:13 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
I feel confidant that heaven will have newly minted ex-smokers within it's confines.
I agree with you on that. My uncle (my mother's brother) quit cold-turkey and never smoked again when the oncologist told him he had lung cancer and no more than 18 months to live. I sure loved that man and hated to lose him in his 50s because of something that could have been prevented. I lost my granddad (his father) the same way... and his brother... and my dad died from the effects, just not cancer.
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RE: Question about tobacco - 8/21/2008 3:40:51 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Not especially remarkable since it's their children and grandchildren that make up the bulk of the population, not them.
So your saying the parents and grandparents of the WWIIers lived just as long? C'mon, Jimbo! You're just being contradictory now. It's QUITE remarkable.
quote:
As a former smoker, oral pacification is a habit that can be easily broken without physical withdrawal. Nicotine causes addiction with predictable and severe effects.
What severe effects? My dad uncle, sister and brother all quit smoking years ago without a problem. More people have quit smoking in our society than smoke now. It may have been difficult for you, but it's not that hard for most people.
quote:
At least you prefaced your post with an admission of ignorance of firsthand experience... IMO, Prager made a rather stupid point. The only thing nicotine does for its addicts is stop withdrawal.
You missed the point. He's saying that as a society we have placed greater value on physical health than moral health. Our bodies are temporary, character is eternal. If that's a stupid point, we serve a stupid God.
quote:
It's the withdrawal symptoms that make smokers cranky.
yes, they certainly do.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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