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beachcooky -> I have a question. (8/12/2008 11:51:15 PM)

You guys might think I'm dumb...but I asked my mom about it and she doesn't know what it is. Her and I both have Jesus in our lives and we try to live according to his purpose. But both of us have no idea what this means.

What is blasphemy of the holy spirit? I understand that it's a sin that cannot be forgiven. What exactly does that mean? I never used to be a Christian and I don't know if I did I already did the sin in the past. I have NO clue what it means. Neither does my mom. You guys can think I'm dumb, thats ok haha. But this is a serious question.

I love Jesus with my whole heart, and so I don't think I've done it. But what if I did already in the past and not even know it? Since it is a sin that can't be forgiven, am I immediately going to hell? If so, I don't really understand why God said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" when we are going to hell because of that sin, even if we already have him in our hearts. I am truly a Christian and I love God to death. But if I committed that sin, I'll be going straight to hell. It just confuses me.

I've been hearing about the blasphemy of the holy spirit on crosswalk a lot and I always wondered what it meant. I could ask my pastor, but I won't see them until Sunday. And I kinda want to know sooner.

I sat down today and just cried. I don't want to go to hell. I don't know if I committed this sin or not. I might have done it when I wasn't a Christian. I don't know. Ugh.

So, the responses will be great. I really am wondering and am really worried about it :/

Thanks.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 12:24:44 AM)

Well, I, for one, don't think you to be "dumb" at all. I think you are a serious woman with a desire to please G-d, to do what is right before Him, to be what you should be before Him. If not, why in the world would you ask such a question?

Here's one thing you can do. Go to Crosswalk's "Search the Bible" and use "blasphem*" to do a keyword search. What you will find is that blaspheming the L_rd includes cursing Him, cursing His Name, and acting (believers acting) in such a way as to shame Him. This is going to be very, very disheartening to you, Beach, because who hasn't done these things?

It tears me up when I realize that sure, He has cleaned up my mouth, my language, and no, I don't say "bad words," but I have two little boxes in my car (http://forums.crosswalk.com/Attitudes+%26+Habits%3a+want+to+join+me%3f/m_3538588/mpage_2/tm.htm#3693962) for the times when I have the attitudes that produce those words in some people. What's the difference? But I come running to the L-rd in repentance.

It tears me up, too, when I speak sharply to someone who never deserved it -- and who am I to judge that anyone "deserves" it? So again, I come running to the L-rd in repentance, for cleansing.

But let's look at someone in the Bible. What about David? He is a prime example. Beach, you and I know that he did some pretty awful things. Yet G-d said that David was a man after His own heart. I have wondered how David could be that? Here is one thing I have seen. David did those awful things, shaming G-d horribly (!), and he could go for awfully long periods without facing his sins, but Every Time he finally saw what he had done, he went running to the Father in deep grief, mourning over his sins, accepting the consequences, understanding and acknowledging that G-d is just.

If you read the Scriptures using "blasphem*", you will see that the penalty for blasphemy is death. Plain and simple -- death. But again, look at David. What made the difference? Repentance and grace. G-d showed His mighty grace to David and all the others who truly believed in Him throughout the Bible, or they would not have been those victors, those mighty people we can look back at.

And remember that repentance isn't "I'm sorry" and doing it again; repentance is turning from that sin, determined that by the grace of G-d, you will not return to it. The more, the longer you grow in the L-rd, the more sure your steps will be sure.



Theophile2 -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 12:52:20 AM)

beachcooky -

That is actually an excellent question.

Not to be too simplistic about this, but I once heard that if you are that concerned about whether or not you comitted the "unforgivable sin" (which I'm guessing is what you're getting at), then you probably haven't.

Am I correct in presuming your question likely comes from:

Mk 3:22-30 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "by the prince of demons he casts out the demons." (23) And he called them to him and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (25) And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. (26) And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. (27) But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house. (28) "Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, (29) but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-- (30) for they had said, "He has an unclean spirit."

I highlighted for you what the commentaries on Crosswalk's Bible search site will explain for you as the unforgivable sin.

May your heart always be tender for the Holiness of the Trinity! [;)]

[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



beachcooky -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 1:51:22 AM)

quote:

Here's one thing you can do. Go to Crosswalk's "Search the Bible" and use "blaspheme*" to do a keyword search. What you will find is that blaspheming the L_rd includes cursing Him, cursing His Name, and acting (believers acting) in such a way as to shame Him. This is going to be very, very disheartening to you, Beach, because who hasn't done these things?

It tears me up when I realize that sure, He has cleaned up my mouth, my language, and no, I don't say "bad words," but I have two little boxes in my car (http://forums.crosswalk.com/Attitudes+%26+Habits%3a+want+to+join+me%3f/m_3538588/mpage_2/tm.htm#3693962) for the times when I have the attitudes that produce those words in some people. What's the difference? But I come running to the L-rd in repentance.


Hey, thanks for the response. But I was wondering how you blaspheme (sp?) the holy spirit. Not the Lord. I know that God can forgive if we swear at him, even though it is very wrong. But what about using blasphemy towards the HOLY SPIRIT. Which is a sin that cannot be forgiven. I don't have any peace of it. I don't want to go to hell. I really don't. I'm like, seriously freaking out :/

This is what really worries me:
quote:

Since it is a sin that can't be forgiven, am I immediately going to hell? If so, I don't really understand why God said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" when we are going to hell because of that sin, even if we already have him in our hearts.



beachcooky -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 1:53:45 AM)

quote:

I highlighted for you what the commentaries on Crosswalk's Bible search site will explain for you as the unforgivable sin.


Hi! Thanks for the response. I'm not going to use blasphemy towards the holy spirit, but what exactly is it? Like, do you curse out the Holy Spirit or something? I don't really know...[&:]



mvic -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 4:26:30 AM)

The scribes in the story in Post No. 3 (above) knew full well who Jesus was. Yet they said He was possessed by the devil in order to defame His reputation and to drive people away from Him. Basically, they wanted to stop His missionary work there and then through character assassination. In response, Jesus said that blasheming in such a way against God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

Now then, let's fast forward to the 21st Century - we are told today often enough that our God is a loving and forgiving God. Let's say anyone were to commit that sin, assuming it is possible to commit it, since Jesus is not walking with us in the flesh right now as He did 2000 years ago; - would God forgive them?

I would like to think that a forgiving God, seeing true repentance and remorse, would forgive. (Remember, the scribes did not seek repentance or show remorse).

After all, we humans, with all our faults, have managed to forgive many wrongs done to us. Who are we to say that our loving God is less forgiving than mere mortals.



whisperingwaters -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 7:17:45 AM)

Even if you had committed the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who is to say you would go to hell? I see in scripture that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin but just because your not forgiven doesn't necessarily mean you will end up in hell (that is if you are repentant for the sin), I'm reminded of King David when he slept with Bathsheba he still had punishment for his sin (and in this case he was forgiven) but he had a penalty to pay maybe blaspheming the Holy Spirit has the same type of penalty or a like kind, that doesn't mean those who have committed this sin will end up eternally lost in hell if they are repentant of it.



whisperingwaters -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 7:24:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters

Even if you had committed the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who is to say you would go to hell? I see in scripture that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin but just because your not forgiven doesn't necessarily mean you will end up in hell (that is if you are repentant for the sin), I'm reminded of King David when he slept with Bathsheba he still had punishment for his sin (and in this case he was forgiven) but he had a penalty to pay maybe blaspheming the Holy Spirit has the same type of penalty or a like kind, that doesn't mean those who have committed this sin will end up eternally lost in hell if they are repentant of it.




One thing I'm trying to say here is maybe you will be eternally marked by this sin and all in eternity will see this mark, it reminds me of the story about the scarlet letter where a woman was condemed to for the rest of her life to wear a scarlet letter on her chest because of her sin she committed; she was marked for life because of it yet she had been forgiven long since.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 10:09:47 AM)

Beach, I am not going to sit here and claim I know all the answers to your question.

For one thing, those verses are hardly explained to us, who are so distanced by time and culture from the Hebrew Scriptures. Once in awhile, we will run across Scriptures that are not clear for this reason; fortunately, not often, for those most important of them. When they were said and written, the hearers knew exactly what was meant. Today, we have to play Scriptural Detective and do our best to figure it out.

For another thing, I have never studied what blasphemy against the H Spirit is. So let's look at it, using our knowledge of the Bible and of the H Spirit.

According to the Scriptures, blasphemy against G-d is blaspheming the L_rd by cursing Him, cursing His Name, and by believers acting in such a way as to shame Him, all of which is rejecting Him. That is blasphemy.

Now, what is the H Spirit's place in lives? It is to lead us to our Messiah, to bring us to that place of salvation, to lead, guide, and teach. How can I blaspheme Him, then? By rejecting Him through cursing Him, cursing His Name, and acting in a way to shame Him. Now, depending upon your theology, this may take varying forms. If you are Calvinist or reformed, Arminian, Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc., you will have to ask yourself what blaspheming Him means in your belief system.

It would be difficult for me to define the meaning, because while I am of a reformedish-type belief, I have come to this point from an Arminian view, and i don't have it all figured out yet.



mvic -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 11:32:29 AM)

I agree with Covaan_Meshuga.

When the Bible was written they didn't have video or sound recorders to keep track of everything Jesus or the disciples said. A lot of the Bible was written years after His death and resurrection. Mostly by interviewing witnesses and through word of mouth testimony. And as you know, memories fade with time.

Also, what Jesus said in His lifetime was often said in a dialogue/dialect that was understood at the time by the people around Him. There's plenty of room for misunderstanding between what He said, what was written years after He said it, and what was translated into today's Bible which you have at home. (Oh why didn't Jesus speak in English ???).

Anyway - there's been a lot written about this unforgivable sin. And it is open to many interpretations.

I would like to believe it is something to be dealt with between you and God. And no one else. If one is truly repentant, a loving God would surely forgive him.

I don't believe our God is one who bears a grudge for ever and ever and ever. That's not what Jesus taught.



JimboFletch -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 11:37:27 AM)

In case it was missed, according to Jesus, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is to ascribe His works to Satan. It's not the use of filthy language or curse words.



mvic -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 11:43:22 AM)

Correct.

Hi JimboFletch - do you have a Bible reference to this please. I've looked and can't find it. Thanx.



beachcooky -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 3:14:27 PM)

quote:

I would like to believe it is something to be dealt with between you and God. And no one else. If one is truly repentant, a loving God would surely forgive him.

I don't believe our God is one who bears a grudge for ever and ever and ever. That's not what Jesus taught.


Alright. That's what I thought. I don't want to end up going to hell. But from what you guys have told me, I'm guessing I wont since I really don't want to do this again. I don't know if I did or what.

I mean, when I wasn't walking with God, I cursed him out plenty of times. And I feel so guilty. I mean, I try not to feel it in my heart. I try my hardest not to say things outloud when I'm angry with him. I want to be with God when I die. I tried calling my youth pastor today, but she didn't pick up.

Thank you guys SO much for the responses. It has helped me a LOT!
Seriously. Thanks! :)


quote:

In case it was missed, according to Jesus, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is to ascribe His works to Satan. It's not the use of filthy language or curse words.


I agree with mvic. Can you show me a scripture that says that? I'm not saying you're lying, but I would really want to see one to back you up on that statement! Thanks! :)



beachcooky -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 3:21:51 PM)

I just looked online. And I found this website: http://www.carm.org/questions/blasphemy.htm

It basically says that "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is saying that Jesus did His miracles by the power of the devil. "

The scripture that they gave us was Matthew 12:22-32.
Nevertheless, I am still going to talk to my pastor.

To everyone who has responded, you guys are amazing. Again, thanks so much! I really do appreciate it! Love you all!



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: I have a question. (8/13/2008 4:31:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beachcooky
quote:

In case it was missed, according to Jesus, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is to ascribe His works to Satan. It's not the use of filthy language or curse words.


I agree with mvic. Can you show me a scripture that says that? I'm not saying you're lying, but I would really want to see one to back you up on that statement! Thanks! :)

This is assumed by the context of the Scripture Fletch brought up:
quote:

Mark 3:22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons." 23 So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. 28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." 30 He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."

This is what I was referring to above when I wrote:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Abiyah
If you are Calvinist or reformed, Arminian, Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc., you will have to ask yourself what blaspheming Him means in your belief system.

It would be difficult for me to define the meaning, because while I am of a reformedish-type belief, I have come to this point from an Arminian view, and i don't have it all figured out yet.

For example, many Charismatic people believe that if one speaks against the phenomena that occur in their churches, one is speaking against the H Spirit, so if you are of that belief, be careful what you say/write about those things.



beachcooky -> RE: I have a question. (8/14/2008 12:24:08 AM)

Hey Covann_Meshuga!
I looked it up online and I was just wondering what it meant. Thats it :)
It's saying in Matthew that by blaspheming the holy spirit would be saying that Jesus' miracles are from Satan himself. Note that the Pharisees says that Jesus was possessed by Beelzebub. He then describes that it was blasphemy of the holy spirit. I found out what it meant. Thanks for the responses everyone.

But knowing that, I know for a FACT I've never done that. Jesus' powers don't come from Satan. And if we believe that, then we aren't Christians. But that's a sin that cannot be forgiven. :)



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: I have a question. (8/14/2008 12:27:35 AM)

Do you have peace about this now, Beach? Have you told your mom what you've learned?



beachcooky -> RE: I have a question. (8/14/2008 12:28:44 AM)

Yep, I did. I haev never done that in my LIFE. And I am SO glad, haha.
Thanks sooo much! I seriously called my mom and i was like, "IM NOT GOING TO HELL!"
hahah.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: I have a question. (8/14/2008 12:35:42 AM)

Oh, this is great! Wonderful!! [:)]



diz71266 -> RE: I have a question. (8/14/2008 12:39:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beachcooky


" Jesus' powers don't come from Satan. And if we believe that, then we aren't Christians. But that's a sin that cannot be forgiven. :)


You just hit the nail on the head,that is why some people say that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unbelief, because if you believe His powers were from Satan then you are not believing in Him when he says that he is from God and he is the only way to God.



BibleL7 -> RE: I have a question. (8/14/2008 1:43:17 AM)

Praise the Lord for ya Beachcookie you have come to the right conclusion I will say that from that explanation and even the explanation that it is continued denying the work of the Holy Spirit in your life, anybody who would have committed the unpardonable sin has no concern for it and would never worry about committing it. The very fact that you were concerned about it shows you are not guilty of committing it. In the Matthew account you will find that Jesus said that blasphemy against the Son of Man would be forgiven and this is what most people do either the Son or Father yet Jesus said these sins could be forgiven. Oh and many theologians and preachers dont necessarily agree on the meaning of Blasphemy of Holy Spirit so dont feel dumb at all many will argue about it and many will say they are not sure, so if many PhD and Masters of theology are unsure of the meaning then you are in good company, yet you came to an answer they dont always come to. So Lord Bless and have a wonderful day. And as most will say the only dumb question is the one not asked it is true.



atruefaith -> RE: I have a question. (8/14/2008 6:48:01 PM)

quote:

What is blasphemy of the holy spirit?


A perpetual, hardened state of unbelief.

Oh and you're not dumb...you just asked one of the most profound questions of the Christian faith.



DaveW -> RE: I have a question. (8/15/2008 10:58:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: diz71266

You just hit the nail on the head,that is why some people say that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unbelief, because if you believe His powers were from Satan then you are not believing in Him when he says that he is from God and he is the only way to God.
Actually, it is not so much whether you think Jesus' powers divine or devilish as it is your trying to make other people think they are devilish.

The pharasees in the 2 passages were attributing His authority over demons to being satanic in origin; and clearly with the intent of dissuading people from believing in HIM. It was not those who believed the pharasees that HE warned about blaspheming the Holy Spirit but the pharasees themselves who (perhaps knowingly) were spreading the lies.

THis is a very narrowly defined sin. Unbelief of any kind can be repented of, even after decades. This cannot be repented from.



EStan -> RE: I have a question. (8/15/2008 11:53:29 AM)

A lot of great answers in this thread [:)] I'd just like to add: Beachcooky, (why do I have an image in my head of an Oreo with sand on it? [8D]) you love the Lord, and have put your faith in what He did on the cross for your sins. As Isaiah 1:18 reads, "...though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." You've been washed in the blood of the Lamb!

When satan reminds you of your past - remind him of his future [;)]



terryjohn -> RE: I have a question. (8/15/2008 2:31:59 PM)

The only unforgiveable sin must be continual and consistent unbelief. In it we continually deny the work and leading of the Spirit of God Himself. Hence, in the end, no one will have any excuse, for their lives will testify that they knowingly resisited Christ's righteouness at every turn and disowned the one and only Son of God that could have saved them.

Without faith it is impossible to please Him.

Here we see the necessity of faith, for to whom much is given, much is required. You could say, if you but love Christ by faith , how much more will you love Him by sight? Christ on the cross prayed that we be forgiven simply because we do not know what we are doing which suggests that those who do, will not.



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