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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/16/2008 11:05:42 PM
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Evangel70
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quote:
First, I'm always skeptical when politicians speak about their personal faith. They know most Americans consider themselves "Christians" so that's what they usually say. Many have even caught onto the phrase "born again" and realize that's a good answer. So I dont' feel comfortable saying, difinitively that Obama is a Christian, just based on the answer to that question. Same with McCain...
I agree with you that a politicians faith shouldn't even be an issue because politicians will always tell you what you want to hear. That being said, Obama had to go out of his way to confirm his Christian faith because there are still people out there who have checked out their brains and think that despite the fact that Obama spent over 20 years in a Christian church (even one with questionable theology) and baptised his children in the church that he is somehow a Muslim (go figure).
McCain perhaps assumed that voters consider him a Christian simply because he's pro-choice and has recently shifted his policies to cater to the far right in order to get elected, but many have no questioned the fact that despite his claim to Christianity, he has never been baptised. Also not questioned is why McCain is so hesitant to talk openly about his faith.
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May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/16/2008 11:21:54 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I agree with you that a politicians faith shouldn't even be an issue because politicians will always tell you what you want to hear. That being said, Obama had to go out of his way to confirm his Christian faith because there are still people out there who have checked out their brains and think that despite the fact that Obama spent over 20 years in a Christian church (even one with questionable theology) and baptised his children in the church that he is somehow a Muslim (go figure).
Well, I have never thought Obama was a Muslim, and I take him at his word he is a Christian. In fact, I sort of mentally decided that I would simply take both men at their word in this debate - and I thought they were both pretty straight-forward.
quote:
McCain perhaps assumed that voters consider him a Christian simply because he's pro-choice and has recently shifted his policies to cater to the far right in order to get elected, but many have no questioned the fact that despite his claim to Christianity, he has never been baptised. Also not questioned is why McCain is so hesitant to talk openly about his faith.
I have never heard anyone suggest McCain was 'pro-choice'; he certainly isn't the most conservative Republican, but boith McCain and Obama have both shiifted rightward - which I think is encouraging. As is the fact that both candidates feel the need to subject themselves to the questioning of an evangelical pastor!
And McCain actually has a reputation of being reticent about his faith - so I was pleasantly suprised to see him discuss it so openly.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/16/2008 11:34:04 PM
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saved9201
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I think they both sounded like politicians. McCain was more "purpose driven" when answering questions, but that's because I think in front of an evangelical audience all he had to do was echo the republican party line and he'd get much love. I thought it was interesting that when asked three people they thought were wise enought to get advice from, McCain mentioned a white guy (Gen Petraeus), a black (John Lewis) and a woman (Meg Whitman). If Lewis and Whitman were watching, they probably went, "Huh?"
Then the "noun + verb + POW story" was very effective also. Ask him something he's uncomfortable talking about, like religion, here comes the POW story. You've GOT to act interested and you've GOT to act moved after he's done telling a POW story. Even if it has nothing to do with the question asked.
B. Hussein O. tap danced and soft shoed a little bit, but overall, he realizes he's not going to get much of the evangelical vote anyway, seeing that he's a Muslim and a baby murderer and all. So whatever he gets is gravy.
- Julius
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/16/2008 11:40:11 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
B. Hussein O. tap danced and soft shoed a little bit, but overall, he realizes he's not going to get much of the evangelical vote anyway, seeing that he's a Muslim and a baby murderer and all. So whatever he gets is gravy.
I disagree - I think he was pretty sincere, and I think he was actually pretty funny, and seemed at ease.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/16/2008 11:57:05 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
1. Obama is definitely a Christian and comfortable talking about his faith.
He's definitely NOT a Christian... A walk with Christ doesn't include what Obama's believes is right in the sight of God.
quote:
5. Obama came across very humble admitting his faults and his dependence on God.
Yet he will go on supporting evil agendas.... How does that work... How does one repent and ask for forgivesness for something is clearly wrong according to God's word, yet it's something the person supports with all their heart daily. It's something they use to gain and maintain a position of power....
Would this work?
Dear Lord forgive me for my support for evil today and my continuous support for it as I seek a high position of authority in the very entity that you ordained to deal with those who do evil according to your Word. Please excuse my purposeful and complete disregard for your two commandments(To love God with all your heart and to love they neighbor....) and the fact I spit on your mercy as I proclaim your name out of the same mouth I speak for evil agendas that glorify everything you are not.
quote:
Did anyone else watch? What were your thoughts?
I don't believe the bar can get any lower to what a Christian is...
John
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 12:06:17 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
That being said, Obama had to go out of his way to confirm his Christian faith because there are still people out there who have checked out their brains and think that despite the fact that Obama spent over 20 years in a Christian church (even one with questionable theology) and baptised his children in the church that he is somehow a Muslim (go figure).
He's not a Muslim no more than he's a Christian... Anyone that thinks the agenda supported by Mr. Obama is compatible with the walk with Christ need to rethink the idea that sitting in a church for even 50 years doesn't mean anything if your life is governed by the flesh... In fact it would be better for Mr. Obama to deny God than to invoke his name and do what he does...
John
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 12:13:47 AM
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todd_t
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Although I missed this event tonight, I read a short list of the highlights.
I'll try to catch a rebroadcast later on, but it seems McCain dropped his famous "my friends" line about 162 times, and spent more time repeating his stump speech than answering Warren's questions.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 3:34:01 AM
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aslouie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Well after watching both Obama and McCain being interviewed here are my impressions:
1. Obama is definitely a Christian and comfortable talking about his faith.
2. McCain is not comfortable talking about his faith -- I was left not knowing whether or not he was a Christian.
3. Obama thought about the questions and answered Rick Warren directlly.
4. McCain rarely looked at Rick and used his hour to regurgitate his town hall speeches. You could tell he had very canned and rehearsed answer which was a shame because he didn't give people an opportunity to learn about him.
5. Obama came across very humble admitting his faults and his dependence on God.
6. McCain often didn't let Rick finish asking the question before jumping in with a pre-rehearsed answer. McCain main purpose seemed to be to focus on saying what he had to in order to appease the far right. IMO he came across as very phoney.
Did anyone else watch? What were your thoughts?
though I recalled McCain told a lot of stories to the Saddleback crowd (hence possibly, reinforcing the age issue/reputation!  ), I think Warren is very civil in how he moderated the discussion. The same goes for Obama, though I don't know how much of the Evangelical vote he'll be getting, after describing how he wants to indirectly contribute to his Christian principles of the sanctity of life, when it comes to lowering the abortion rates.
There's more to say, but I'll have to let my thoughts gestate first...
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With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 3:56:07 AM
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saved9201
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
B. Hussein O. tap danced and soft shoed a little bit, but overall, he realizes he's not going to get much of the evangelical vote anyway, seeing that he's a Muslim and a baby murderer and all. So whatever he gets is gravy.
I disagree - I think he was pretty sincere, and I think he was actually pretty funny, and seemed at ease.
Wait a minute. I criticize Obama and you defend him? Who'd a thunk that would ever happen?
- Julius
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 4:23:26 AM
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PolarBear
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I think this was a much more worthwhile forum than most presidential debates are! Warren picked some very good questions.
The faith question -- Obama actually had more of "the right words" than McCain. He also seems to genuinely care about reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions (but was wrong when he stated that they haven't been decreasing in number). I hope his words actually do come from his heart, but who knows. I suspect he is indeed saved, but perhaps hasn't let the full meaning of the Gospel penetrate his whole being. If the Gospel truly penetrated his being, I don't see how he could associate with such a questionable church and continue to pander to the far left by supporting abortion rights.
On the positive, perhaps Obama just saying those words will get some in the far left to take Christ more seriously than they otherwise might.
Overall Obama did a pretty good job -- almost good enough to make me feel comfortable with him as President if it weren't for the fact that he'll be rubber stamping a far left Congress.
Then McCain came in and stole the show. I thought his answers were much more direct than Obama's, and reflected much more experience.
I wish Warren would do that with Bob Barr, who I may well be voting for ...
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 8:01:01 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
Wait a minute. I criticize Obama and you defend him? Who'd a thunk that would ever happen?
That's because I disagree with the man's politics, I don't hate him.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 8:37:38 AM
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rcjames
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I thought both men laid out their positions pretty well, at least I was not suprised at anything.
McCain said "My friend" so many times he sounded like an insurance salesman.
Obama said "UUUHHHH" so many time he sounded very indecisive.
I did like the format.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 9:08:58 AM
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Dubya
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Seems to me Obama proved himself to be a liar. Here is the LINK.
He says that the question regarding the point at which a baby gets human rights is above his pay grade. How can that be the case when he has actively pursued more and more liberal abortion laws and has opposed the infants born alive act in Illinois?
Seems to me like a lot of double talk. He sactimoniously states that such "moral questions" are above his pay grade... perhaps indirectly stating that is a question only God can answer. Yet, he makes votes denying the basic human right of life to infants who were intended to die in an abortion.
The way I read his position on this is as follows, Any woman who wants her unborn child to die has the right to make sure death happens... even if the child accidentally survives a botched abortion.
Yeah, he knows his scripture really well... guess who else does.
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 10:11:34 AM
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wing2000
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quote:
Obama said "UUUHHHH" so many time he sounded very indecisive.
...perhaps because he was actually answering the question in a thoughtful way instead of delivering a pre-rehearsed answer. It seemed to me Obama was having a thoughtful conversation with Warren...whereas McCain made sure to include his "Evangelical" talking points.
However, McCain's delivery and personality was the best I have seen him in some time...
And the format was great. It was similar to an earlier debate between Clinton and Obama (McCain declined to attend) at Messiah College. We do need at least one debate of this type in every election.
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 12:49:05 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
McCain said "My friend" so many times he sounded like an insurance salesman.
No kidding. I finally saw a rerun of the forum, and each time McCain said "My friends" I actually winced it was so awkward.
He really needs to drop that habit.
I felt that McCain (as was Obama) was at his best when he directly answered Rick Warren's questions, and didn't fly off into campaign mode. I wish Warren would have done a better job at reigning in McCain during these moments when he drifted off topic.
And though the crowd treated both candidates warmly, considering that roughly 90% of them were conservative, it was obvious that McCain enjoyed a sort of political home field advantage (esp on the abortion issue).
< Message edited by todd_t -- 8/17/2008 12:59:59 PM >
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 12:58:49 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
He says that the question regarding the point at which a baby gets human rights is above his pay grade. How can that be the case when he has actively pursued more and more liberal abortion laws and has opposed the infants born alive act in Illinois?
Obama explained after the interview exactly why he voted against this legislation, that it would have undermined the fundamental tenants of Roe.
Plus, the law itself is inconsistent on this question on when a fetus obtains legal rights.
I suppose the bottom line, however, is that (as usual) people who are staunchly pro-choice or pro-life will retreat to their ideological corners and go with their candidate (pro-choicers with Obama, and pro-lifers with McCain).
Finally, I felt that when Rick Warren asked McCain about his support for stem cell research, and if it conflicted with his pro-life platform, that McCain squirmed on the issue - esp considering that stems derived from skin cells are not nearly as viable as embryonic stems.
< Message edited by todd_t -- 8/17/2008 1:07:16 PM >
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:03:43 PM
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tracydolls
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to me,
Obama took too long in some of his answers, huhhh. But they were thoughtful
I'm like Jack here, Mccain actually looked BETTER than I expected.
Was anyone surprised by the Judge question? Who would you not have on the Court. My mouth fell open at Bo's answer.
The format was good. Rick did pretty good with it.
Afterwards I seen Bo in an interview talking about the legislation about infants alive, he said it is a lie that he voted against keeping infants alive.
That it defies common sense to vote like people think he has.
I would like to see that vote and what was in it.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:05:16 PM
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Dubya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
He says that the question regarding the point at which a baby gets human rights is above his pay grade. How can that be the case when he has actively pursued more and more liberal abortion laws and has opposed the infants born alive act in Illinois?
Obama explained exactly why he voted against this legislation, that it would have undermined the fundamental tenants of Roe.
He clarified this voting position in an interview conducted with a CBN reporter immediately after the forum.
So it was not above his pay grade?
Funny how conveniently he can hide behind "the tenants of Roe" when dodging a pretty simple question.
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:09:55 PM
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todd_t
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Check out my reply above: the question of when a fetus obtains legal rights is hardly universal from both a legal and moral position.
I think Obama was merely reflecting that reality. Were Warren to have asked me the same question, I would not have had an easy answer.
Plus, McCain's quick and easy "at the moment of conception" line badly neglected to address the fact that fertilized human embryos are flushed away on a regular basis at in-vitro fertility clinics if they are deemed unwanted.
Where is McCain's moral fortitude there? One would think he'd be gravely concerned.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:18:54 PM
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Dubya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Check out my reply above: the question of when a fetus obtains legal rights is hardly universal from both a legal and moral position.
I think Obama was merely reflecting that reality. Were Warren to have asked me the same question, I would not have had an easy answer.
Plus, McCain's quick and easy "at the moment of conception" line badly neglected to address the fact that fertilized human embryos are flushed away on a regular basis at in-vitro fertility clinics if they are deemed unwanted.
Where is McCain's moral fortitude there? One would think he'd be gravely concerned.
I understand your point very clearly.
However, Obama's actions regarding proposed legislation which would have protected living, breathing infants who mistakenly survived a botched abortion tells me that the question was NOT above his pay grade. His actions were the HONEST answer... not his words.
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:22:18 PM
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inthysite
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Well after watching both Obama and McCain being interviewed here are my impressions:
1. Obama is definitely a Christian and comfortable talking about his faith.
2. McCain is not comfortable talking about his faith -- I was left not knowing whether or not he was a Christian.
3. Obama thought about the questions and answered Rick Warren directlly.
4. McCain rarely looked at Rick and used his hour to regurgitate his town hall speeches. You could tell he had very canned and rehearsed answer which was a shame because he didn't give people an opportunity to learn about him.
5. Obama came across very humble admitting his faults and his dependence on God.
6. McCain often didn't let Rick finish asking the question before jumping in with a pre-rehearsed answer. McCain main purpose seemed to be to focus on saying what he had to in order to appease the far right. IMO he came across as very phoney.
Did anyone else watch? What were your thoughts?
Were we even watching the same debate?
I do think NObama did quite well last night, he did stumble and pause a few times but nothing like we've seen him do before. He sounded quite intelligent and articulate, which usually doesn't come across if he is not using a teleprompter.
I also liked what he said about the education system and increasing teacher salaries and bonuses for performance.
I'm not going to debate whether or not he is a Christian. The man says he accepted Christ and that he is redeemed, so I'll go with that. I will say though that I have a very hard time with his position on abortions giving that he is a Christian. But enough has been said about that in other threads.
However, what I didn't like were the flat out lies that he told.
When asked about abortion he said he supports legislation to reduce the number of abortions if it contains statements about protecting the mother's health. However, his record proves otherwise.
"Newly obtained documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an Illinois state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion - even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language…explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion."
Obama Cover-up Revealed On Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Bill
Another lie he told was when asked to give a specific time when he voted against party lines for the good of the country. He pointed to a bill that he had worked on with McCain on ethics reform. He didn't go against party lines to vote on this bill but rather voted right along party lines:
McCain was responding to an earlier Obama letter in which the freshman Democrat last week thanked McCain for including him in bipartisan talks on lobbying reform but expressed some differences in approach to the issue spurred by recent lobbying scandals.
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Obama, in last week's letter, promoted a bill backed by House and Senate Democrats that would take similar action on members becoming lobbyists, disclosure and corporate jets. It also bans gifts, meals from lobbyists or organizations that employ lobbyists and creates a new office of public integrity in the House to monitor compliance of lobbying rules.
Obama also questioned the effectiveness of McCain's proposal to set up a task force to further study the lobbying ethics issue.
McCain criticizes Obama on lobbying ethics reform
As to these statements that McCain gave rehearsed answers, well seeing how no one knew ahead of time what the questions were seems to make that talking point mute.
It seems to me that McCain was able to start answering the questions so quickly was because he didn't have to think about what is the right answer, or what answer will score the most points but rather he spoke from what his long held beliefs are. This comes from years of experience.
Finally, regarding the statement about McCain not wanting to talk about his faith, okay granted he didn't give a pat answer that anyone even vaguely aware of Christianity could give, no he rather showed his faith through his past actions.
He relayed how it was his prayers that got him through the tough times in the POW camp. He talked about a silent worship between two Christians on opposite sides of the war when he mentioned the guard loosing his ropes and drawing a cross in the dust.
Like everyone here says, anyone can tell you what you want to hear, so rather than speak empty rhetoric McCain showed you his faith.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:30:31 PM
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inthysite
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quote:
Obama explained after the interview exactly why he voted against this legislation, that it would have undermined the fundamental tenants of Roe.
Well then that make another lie that NObama told. I can't wait to hear his third "official" response on this seeing how his responses always come in 3's.
As I pointed out in my previous post the bill he voted against would not have affected currently legislation on aborthion:
"Newly obtained documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an Illinois state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion - even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language…explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion."
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:34:43 PM
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todd_t
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As I stated above, abortion is such a polarizing issue that persons from both sides will vote along traditional party lines.
Either way, it's not going to be the critical issue that will propel this election, nor affect independent voters very much.
Look for economic positions to be the drivers there.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Rick Warren to interview candidates - 8/17/2008 1:51:12 PM
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Dubya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
As I stated above, abortion is such a polarizing issue that persons from both sides will vote along traditional party lines.
Either way, it's not going to be the critical issue that will propel this election, nor affect independent voters very much.
Look for economic positions to be the drivers there.
I think your assessment of the economy having more impact is correct.
However, the honesty of Obama should be more of a concern to voters. If he can so blatently lie about something like abortion, what keeps him honest on other issues?
I am still puzzled about the "above my pay grade" response... but like you said, his views on abortion will probably not sway those already commited to voting for him.
I wonder is there are any other issues "above his pay grade" which might deal with the economy, national defense, foreign policy, etc?
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