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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

McCain seems to follow Bush's lead of "bomb first and justify your actions later" and IMO that will only lead the U.S closer to the possibility of a nuclear war -- especially if we take on Russia and Pakistan (both have Nuclear capabilities). So to answer your question as to whom I would want at the "helm", I believe Obama would be someone who is cool headed enough to try diplomacy and sanctions before military action, but would not hesitate to do what is necessary to protect our country.

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Because a part of me is nervous that McCain would be foolish enough to do it despite the hellacious can of worms it would open. I don't believe Obama would actually go into Pakistan to nab Bin Laden, despite his past comments to the contrary.

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So your argument here is, "Because I believe McCain will do what he says, but not so with Obama, so I support Obama"?

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So your argument here is, "Because I believe McCain will do what he says, but not so with Obama, so I support Obama"?

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In this particular example (invading Pakistan), yes, barring the Pakistani government (in whatever form it assumes from here on) reversing it's policy disallowing US troops on their soil.

Again, it's not that I don't want Bin Laden and his inner circle taken out, but that barging across the Pakistani border to do it would be politically unfeasable at this time - otherwise, I suspect Bush would have done it a long time ago.

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Do you believe everything that comes out of McCain's mouth, or do you suspect he sometimes tells the public (vis-a-vis, the media) what he thinks will put his campaign in the strongest possible light?

If you picked the latter, I believe the same goes for Obama.

And on his comment about possibly invading Pakistan (exclusively to go after Bin Laden), I think he was just blowing smoke on the issue that day.

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ORIGINAL: todd_t

C'mon, Jack.

Do you believe everything that comes out of McCain's mouth, or do you suspect he sometimes tells the public (vis-a-vis, the media) what he thinks will put his campaign in the strongest possible light?

If you picked the latter, I believe the same goes for Obama.

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I listened to bits and pieces. Overall, I think McC. answered in the more politically astute way, touching on major conservative hot buttons in most of his answers. I think Obama answered in a personally more authentic and nuanced manner, but in a way that politically was not altogether shrewd. People don't want nuance and complexity, they want simplicity and answers.

I would like to have a personally authentic but simultaneously shrewd and astute president but that would not appear to be the choice this year. (I respect both men, so that sounds more harsh than I would intend it to be. I think McCain historically has been much more authentic in the past than what he's been recently in his drive to get to the oval office.)

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

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Obama shares a similiar view. Even if you accept his clarification on his statement regarding going into Pakistan, they both share the view that one way or another that's were we are heading.

I firmly believe that next year we are going to see the next president, whoever he is, tested on their foreign policy and the US military will be stretched beyond it's current capabilities.

We will still be in Afghanistan and possibly Iraq, at least for the duration of 2009 maybe longer.

It looks as though Israel will do something about Iran especially since now they have successfully launched a rocket "to carry a research satellite into orbit". My bet is that it will be soon after the election, probably early next year.

Then we have the mess with Russia and Georgia. There is a supposed cease fire agreement but Russia has yet to pull out and have recently made a statement their troops will not leave as quickly as they came in.

That whole area is a powder keg just waiting to blow. So the question becomes who do you want at the helm when it does?

We don't agree often but here we do. There's nothing in this statement that I disagree with.

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McCain seems to follow Bush's lead of "bomb first and justify your actions later" and IMO that will only lead the U.S closer to the possibility of a nuclear war -- especially if we take on Russia and Pakistan (both have Nuclear capabilities). So to answer your question as to whom I would want at the "helm", I believe Obama would be someone who is cool headed enough to try diplomacy and sanctions before military action, but would not hesitate to do what is necessary to protect our country.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
McCain is by background a fighter and soldier - Obama is a professor and organizer. Obama is the product of a post-modern age where concepts like 'right' and 'wrong' as moral considerations aren't taken seriously. McCain is the product of a more certain time (and political milieu) where certain entities are considered truly evil, and one doesn't need to mull over them.

I tend to think our times call for the latter, and not the former, because our enemies certainly won't be mulling about in a scholarly manner whether or not we are evil.

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I think that does sum it up, although I don't think it's quite fair to say that post-moderns don't take ethical issues seriously. I think Obama's work on issues of social justice actually is evidence to the contrary - I think he does take such obligations very seriously. I think it's fair to say that the issues he cares most deeply about aren't always the ones that evangelicals care about.

It's an interesting time - in other years, I'm not sure either one would be electable. McCain's independent streak and willingness to buck his own party if needed in order to do the right thing is just the ticket for overcoming the current dissatisfaction with the republican side. Obama's more studied, nuanced approach I think would normally fall flat were it not for the fact that the current administrations oversimplification of certain issues has created some serious problems for us.

Each of them offers something unique and timely, which is why this election is proving probably going to be much closer than it should be. With this level of approval ratings, the current incumbent party would normally not be in a position to make the race this close.

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I do think, though, he's the more thoughtful of the two. I tend to draw a distinction between thoughtul treatment of an issue and creating effective compromise. Two very distinct skills, and both of them of great value.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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I do think, though, he's the more thoughtful of the two. I tend to draw a distinction between thoughtul treatment of an issue and creating effective compromise. Two very distinct skills, and both of them of great value.

Perhaps, although I would question how thoughtful one actually is if in practice one doesn't seem to be able to incorporate the ideas of others in one's actions.

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That's a legitimate question, but I get the sense that Obama deals more effectively in the realm of ideas where McCain deals in the realm of tactics and tradeoffs. I think you said it earlier in one of your posts - he's an action oriented type of guy. He's more of a soldier's man than a professor's man. I don't mean that in a critical kind of way - just descriptive of two different kinds of intelligence. One is more practical, the other more theoretical.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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That's a legitimate question, but I get the sense that Obama deals more effectively in the realm of ideas where McCain deals in the realm of tactics and tradeoffs. I think you said it earlier in one of your posts - he's an action oriented type of guy. He's more of a soldier's man than a professor's man. I don't mean that in a critical kind of way - just descriptive of two different kinds of intelligence. One is more practical, the other more theoretical.

Fair enough - now of course comes the question, which sort would be better suited for a President?

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Either can be, depending on the times. Same question, stated differently, would be what kind of person do these times require. Wish I knew. Right now, I plan to vote Obama but it's not without some concern.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Either can be, depending on the times. Same question, stated differently, would be what kind of person do these times require. Wish I knew. Right now, I plan to vote Obama but it's not without some concern.

I have a slightly different view. I think a President can always find advisors to mull over issues and consider all sides - I think finding one who actually is able to get things done is much more rare, thus McCain.

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Imagine if JFK had followed the advice of those around him with a hard-line, kneejerk, cocksure, shoot-first mentality during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

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So why was Obama so flustered when asked this question? I'm almost starting to believe what some of you ObamaHaters say about him being lost without a teleprompter. Almost.