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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 12:29:45 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5140
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
Some of the clicks here will go so far as to plan an attack on the one naysayer.
Is that something you have first-hand knowledge of? I honestly have a hard time believing that one.
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Bonky
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 12:30:56 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23671
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
Status: offline
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LOL, Kat!
I'm just basically dittoing Memaw's post, but since I've already got this all typed and everything . . .
Christine,
The cliquish-ness that I am referring to doesn't have anything to do with who quotes whom . . . it has to do with attitudes towards posters who hold differing opinions.
I am not saying that all people who have differing opinions hold the attitudes of which I'm speaking. I am, however, saying that it is, indeed, present; I have personally experienced and I have also silently witnessed other people experience it as well. And from what I have noticed, those attitudes are centered around very specific topics.
Take any topic where salvation is not an issue . . . if I believe A, B, C; but someone else believes D, E, F . . . that's fine, and I'd love to discuss and hear why D, E, F are important to someone. However, sometimes, a woman (or a group of women) wants to only discuss D, E, F and has absolutely no tolerance for anyone wanting to discuss why A, B, C are important to them.
I'm not talking about threads that are specifically created for only discussing D, E, F.
If such a thread is created and I don't agree with the beliefs that the thread is centering around, I simply stay out of that thread.
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 12:37:52 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
LOL, Kat!
I'm just basically dittoing Memaw's post, but since I've already got this all typed and everything . . .
Christine,
The cliquish-ness that I am referring to doesn't have anything to do with who quotes whom . . . it has to do with attitudes towards posters who hold differing opinions.
I am not saying that all people who have differing opinions hold the attitudes of which I'm speaking. I am, however, saying that it is, indeed, present; I have personally experienced and I have also silently witnessed other people experience it as well. And from what I have noticed, those attitudes are centered around very specific topics.
Take any topic where salvation is not an issue . . . if I believe A, B, C; but someone else believes D, E, F . . . that's fine, and I'd love to discuss and hear why D, E, F are important to someone. However, sometimes, a woman (or a group of women) wants to only discuss D, E, F and has absolutely no tolerance for anyone wanting to discuss why A, B, C are important to them.
I'm not talking about threads that are specifically created for only discussing D, E, F.
If such a thread is created and I don't agree with the beliefs that the thread is centering around, I simply stay out of that thread.
Hit the nail on the head. :)
And oftentimes that differing person is ostracized... OR they can stay if they can withstand what's happening to them. I really don't even think things should get that way to begin with, but I really do understand what you're saying. It happens to me and I've seen it happen to others. :(
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 12:52:16 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1185
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Hello to all of you ladies! You have quite a discussion going on here and I have read it all. Whew!
I think I will bullet-point what I'm writing because honestly I get wordy and don't want long paragraphs, more of an easy read.
I think I will post this in two parts because it turns out to be too big for one.
1. My first thought with this thread is I'm glad that Phosadaud felt she should share this if she felt this. Obviously she made similarly-feeling other people feel safe and that is great. If we need to burp, pat our backs and let's get the burp out. So thanks, Phosadaud. (Seriously, do you pronounce that Foze-a-dowd? Fozz-a-dowd? I've always wondered...)
2. My second thought is maybe twofold:
a. If I have been offensive to you (whoever you are), I am sorry. I don't even have to know who you are. I am the kind of person who will feel bad if I have done you wrong. I really, really will feel bad about it and my apology is very sincere: I am sorry if you are someone I have hurt.
b. I learned quickly working in the corporate world that it bothered me a lot when people would make gaffes and not own up to it. We're all human, and passing the buck is just kind of immature. I have had some women here (never a man) send me a PM when upset with me. One PM I got was the most scathing words anybody has ever said to me on the forums (OR IN REAL LIFE) in the 8 years I have been here. I remember being shocked at what I read, and I remember purposely choosing to respond KINDLY to this person something about "I'm sorry we disagree" or "I'm sorry you feel hurt about this, I didn't mean to be hurtful"....and surprisingly that seemed to mellow her out with me. It is still my opinion that I didn't deserve those incredible words from her but hey, maybe she was having a bad day and I stepped on her last nerve or she let me be her punching bag or maybe I was just that wrong. I did feel bad that she was hurt and in short order it was smoothed over.
c. If you want to read how I had publicly hurt someone and then how it was resolved, go read the General Mommy Thread (in the Women's folder) and look for my posts there. Warning: they're long. The hurting of my friend took place in a different thread but I explained myself months later in the General Mommy thread. My friend and I are on very good terms and have been for a long time and it was not my intention to hurt her, but she WAS hurt and I was responsible for that. I do believe in public apologies if you have hurt someone publicly here. If you've been the Hurter (even unintentionally) and someone says "Hey, that hurt me", why WOULDN'T you apologize publicly? Otherwise nobody knows you gave a care, and even if you were unintentional about hurting her, why not? Maybe my mom was just really good at making us apologize as kids but I have learned it's not that big of a deal to say "I'm sorry". (Is it?)
3. I don't block anybody because I feel I miss bits of discussion then and I want to get the whole picture when I read or reply. Neither do I report people. Say what you want; I am learning to take it. I also am learning to skim or skip posts if someone gets on my nerves.
4. My quick story is that I have been a poster here since 2000. I was:
- newly married at 33; never been married before. 10 years later I still adore him daily.
- a Christian "all of my life" - prayed to "make Jesus my best friend" at 5 years old
- started taking my faith seriously when working with junior high youth at church
- someone who has done international and national short-term mission trips with and for youth
- from a big family (#3 of 8 kids; 1 mom/1 dad married 47 years as of Monday)  .
Being a middle child I am sensitive to other peoples' feelings and I always try to make things better. I might not always SUCCEED, but I always want to TRY.
I can assure you if you have written about hoping:
- you had a date
- your baby would sleep through the night
- you could get pregnant finally
- you had a raise at work
- you could afford to replace your car
- your mother would stop picking on you verbally
- your cookies didn't burn
- your pet iguana didn't have the croup
- your smoking or drinking cravings would cease
- your ex would get up to date on child support
- your depression would lift
- you could lose those extra pounds
- your husband would understand how hard your days are
- your relative would attend counseling --
I can promise you I have felt bad along with you on that and wish that I personally could make it better for you. Really, if I had unlimited funds and time there are many women here who would receive REGULAR care packages from me and homemade goodies. (And there are some people in the Community folder who would receive them, too.)
Okay, that was one long bullet point, huh? What did I tell you about my wordiness? 
Anyhow, I posted solely in the Community folder for years and years and still love those people deeply. Both men and women.
END OF PART 1. I'm sorry for the long posts, I really am.
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 12:53:20 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1185
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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PART 2. Again, sorry this is long. Probably not important either. 
But 2.5 years ago I quit my corporate-world job that I LOVED due to the unconquerable amount of work I had to do, all the extra hours I was putting in (for free) and because my boss (who I love as a person) didn't get it. And the Community chat I had loved for years was going too slowly (I neeeeeded some interaction because I had gone from 90 mph to 5 mph and I was going nuts!) so I mozied on over to the Women's folder which I hadn't really been in much, and I found a thread that one of my old Community friends had started here. I joined in and wasn't really known here but I persevered because they seemed nice and I just needed that interaction. I missed my job, I missed my life there, I missed the responsibilities, the pace. I needed somewhere welcoming. I had been a businesswoman with a career, a woman struggling with infertility, I made my own good paycheck, I took business trips hopping planes with a laptop and briefcase while wearing a business suit. My DH and I had taken trips to Hawaii and London and Paris because we could and because I joined him on his business trips. I had gone from working 8-8 and weekends in the corporate world to sitting alone in my living room with a laptop and sadness that my boss didn't make my job doable, with no heart to want to dive into the next new job yet, longing for a baby that wasn't ever going to come apparently due to my broken reproductive system and nothing to do but laundry for 2 and some dirty dishes. Talk about identity crisis! (And let me add, I have a ton of friends in real life but many of them are corporate people or stay-at-home moms and right then I just didn't want to tap into them. I didn't have depression or anything like that, I just kind of wanted to sit and digest what all had just happened and start something new.)
I also noticed that most of the women in the thread I found here were in their 20's, many of them married "young", some were mothers, some were trying to become mothers (I was, too, but I wasn't vocal about that then). They welcomed me in, they really did. And I am 42 now so you can imagine how I am, to many of these women, their MOM'S age. I have a feeling some women show me some respect just for that fact alone -- that they know how old I am (the old "respect your elders" thing), but most people just accept me as one of the gang, which I prefer. I mean, I'm just me. I feel 25 many days, I am still thump-thump in love with my husband, I have a tiny tot (5 months now) of our own to raise. I will always appreciate the friendship those women let me in on. Several of them have posted in this thread already -- and they know who they are. (Thanks, ladies!)
5. I do know what people are talking about with the attitudes and exclusions or strangely asking for all opinions and then fiercely rejecting the ones they're not looking for. I avoid that type of stuff, or I try to. I really don't care if people homeschool, breastfeed, formula-feed, are quiverful, use birth control, headcover or wear skirts instead of pants. I just don't care. I'm not sure why I would?
I breastfeed because I *can* and I do not take for granted that I *can*, and if it ended tomorrow, no big deal, our son would go on formula. Breastfeeding isn't who I am, it's how I feed my son, and Sharon-Marie said it perfectly but I can't remember her quote -- something about she doesn't care to see it being done but believes it's perfect natural and appropriate.
As a breastfeeder who PROUDLY goes into another room to breastfeed whenever it's not just my husband and me around, hey, I don't WANT you to see my kibbles and bits and I want my son to eat in peace, I want to feel comfortable and for YOU to feel comfortable. I REMEMBER sitting with very close girlfriends who were breastfeeding right there and *I* was *always* uncomfortable, never knew where to look, could hear the baby making noises. THAT'S JUST ME. And if someone here wants to say those noises are the most angelic sounds ever and they love that and others should, too, well, okay, that's fine for you.
I don't care if you are single, are single and want to find Mr. Right, are divorced and it didn't work out and it's none of our business to pick you apart why, I don't care if you need to gain 20 pounds or you need to lose 100 pounds. I don't care if you want to have children till you're 50 (why not, I practically did - LOL), or if you are on every form of birth control known to man because you do not or can not be pregnant right now.
I have never judged my friends based on how they looked, how much money they had, who their boyfriends or husbands were, how great their house was. You should see my close friends -- every size, every income level, single, married, kids who are almost 20, kids who are 5, quiverful-types, jeans-wearing or corporate people, people who barbecue and regularly fling open the doors to welcome whoever stops by, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CHRISTIANS  .
I'm quite sure I would have very few friends if I were constantly telling them how to live their lives to suit my needs.
6. Thank you to those who mentioned Kicka (there were 2 people, I think). Kicka is a thread I started a while ago to discuss whatever topics come up, not to discuss mom-type of things (though I have a lot of respect for moms). I have TRIED to make sure to greet personally everybody who comes by that thread, though I have been lax at that lately because I have a new baby and I don't have as much time online as I used to. I do try to greet all and I do read the posts there and I am so glad that 2 of you mentioned it here in a good light, thanks! And maybe Kicka isn't for everybody -- I'm sure it's not -- but thanks for those who give it a try and if it's not your glass slipper I sure hope you find the thread that is.
7. I think this post is way too long already and I'm not sure I accomplished anything really or added anything really.
Thanks for reading what I have written, or even thanks for skimming it. I know people post from work or people post from home with a baby on their lap, or people post from taking a break while being at the hospital with their newborn baby (((ERIN))) or recently brought-home husband ((((DONNA)))).
Crystal, thanks for the nod, and I am so glad you are posting here again.
8. Hey, ladies, if I didn't post it earlier, what an INTELLIGENT bunch of women that have posted here! So many opinions all over the map, each written with some thought and with some great fun words and worth a read.
9. If I can personally be of any help to any of you, please let me know.
10. Secretly I hope that I'm one of the people that Landabee is praying for!
xo, ladies.
Jeanie
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 12:53:34 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2296
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
Anyway........
I see great things happening in the folder now, and I see better dialogue and communication.
I'm praying for a continuance that leads to an inclusive atmosphere.
I'll stand in agreement with that prayer.
_____________________________
<-- Squirt
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
....Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 1:32:16 PM
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reach
Posts: 1352
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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Thank Jeanie! That was awesome!
Added for myself - If you are one of the people wondering if you offended some, then you are probably not the one offending. If you are concerned enough about people feelings, then you probably won't chew them up.
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 1:37:43 PM
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KatMack
Posts: 1074
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Along the Canopy Roads
Status: offline
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Please do, Shar-Mar! We'd love to have you join!
--Kat
_____________________________
<-- My sweet blessings.
"God will do what God will do. What I'm responsible for is to believe he's all he says he is and obey what he tells me to do. " -magdaleine
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 1:46:25 PM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 1228
Joined: 8/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
If a topic KEEPS coming up for discussion (why some women avoid the folder, for example ) by DIFFERENT posters..........maybe there actually is some truth to the perception of the tone of the folder. So, it is hard to dismiss something simply because one has not self identified it.
What she said. I don't think this many women are too sensitive, or hormonal, or "just can't take it".
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Life Trumps Choice
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 1:54:42 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
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yep.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 3:10:29 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 11078
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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OK, sorry for another really long post. Brevity is not my strong-suit…
Let me give you an illustration which may help folks understand some of the feeling expressed here. Imagine you are new to the boards or simply new to WO. You’d like to get to know other ladies so you enter in.
The 1st thing you see when you come in is a boat-load of mommy and wife threads. That’s not a bad thing and it’s certainly not “wrong” at all, but when you are single, no kids, your first thought is whether there is a place for you too especially when so many churches only deal with women as moms and wives. You already feel a little like the 3rd wheel but you move along.
So, you find a thread that’s something you can “talk about” and make a post. You see folks chatting back and forth but not one person responds to your post. That can be for a number of reasons – maybe you just made the most boring post on the planet and no one knows how to respond. Maybe everyone else is new and doesn’t know how you are new too. Who knows? Nothing to get the panties in a wad over.
You don’t give up though. You see a thread on a topic that you care about but the thread op makes it a thread about just wives or just moms. So, you start a new thread that is for maybe someone in your shoes because you know that this isn’t an issue just for a wife or just for a mom. The first posts you get are from people (not mods) saying there is already a thread about this and even though it’s for moms or wives, it’s “too close” to your new thread so it shouldn’t have been started. Or, maybe posters don’t tell you this, but the first responses you get are the one or 2 hostile posters.
Now, it may have only been one person who was rude. The “folder” didn’t push you out. You weren’t ostracized, but how many of you would feel like hanging around and staying? Sadly, the examples I just gave are real life examples that have happened to many ladies who have tried to “break into” this folder because they were looking for female fellowship. Is that the fault of the entire folder? No. It may only be a couple ladies who fostered these events (and they may not even be regulars), and most of you are probably amazing ladies, but the damage is done and the results are the same. It’s kind of like when you go to a large store and the first employee you meet is too busy chatting with their buddy to help you. It may be a one time thing and it may only be one employee, but how many people would go back to that store?
I’m not saying having a close group is bad. I think it’s awesome! I just think that when you are part of a close group, you sometimes need to make an extra effort at hospitality. I’m part of a close group in the PFY folders (in fact I asked some of my buddies over there if I was out of line in starting this thread). Anyway, someone got to know me from posting in other folders, invited me to join them in a chat thread. I went and people in the thread welcomed me, seemed interested in me and responded to my posts and genuinely made me feel like I fit in. They didn’t have to do that, but by doing that, I didn’t feel like I was invading the territory of a clique, but was rather meeting new friends – who happened to be very close. I pray that I have continued that tradition with my very close-knit friends.
Is this reverberating with anyone? Or do we just not care because this is the way our folder is and everyone else is just going to have to deal with it? I haven’t personally been hurt so anyone who has just needs to get over it. We like it so go somewhere else if you feel left out. Why should we bother to reach out when our needs are being met? (click?)
-------
Now I'm going to go back and read what I missed so hopefully I didn't repeat what everyone else has...
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Classified Ads: "Government employer looking for candidates. Criminal background required."
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 3:25:02 PM
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isaacsmom
Posts: 2057
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
My handle is the first three letters of my babies (furries) names that I had when I joined here: PHOebe, SADie, AUDrey. I guess that would make it: fee-sade-odd but whatever works!
Not to get OT . . . . but . . . . . what kind of furries? I'm furbaby crazy.
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<<< My littlest punkin'
*~*~*Rachel*~*~*
pirtlefarm.blogspot.com
Beware of posing as a profound person -- God became a baby. ~Oswald Chambers
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 3:25:35 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 359
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
The 1st thing you see when you come in is a boat-load of mommy and wife threads. That’s not a bad thing and it’s certainly not “wrong” at all, but when you are single, no kids, your first thought is whether there is a place for you too especially when so many churches only deal with women as moms and wives. You already feel a little like the 3rd wheel but you move along.
As a childfree by choice woman, I can sympathize with the feeling. However, any gathering of women, Christian or secular, online or irl, will have a lot of wife and mommie talk, because most women will occupy those roles at some point in their lives and because we are socially conditioned to talk more about home and family than men are.
quote:
So, you start a new thread that is for maybe someone in your shoes because you know that this isn’t an issue just for a wife or just for a mom. The first posts you get are from people (not mods) saying there is already a thread about this and even though it’s for moms or wives, it’s “too close” to your new thread so it shouldn’t have been started. Or, maybe posters don’t tell you this, but the first responses you get are the one or 2 hostile posters.
I think the reason this happens is that crosswalk is very active, so some common topics come up repeatedly. If I had a dime for every birth control thread, I could retire right now, LOL! Crosswalk (both management and users) tends to consolidate, so that its easier to keep up with topics of interest to you.
quote:
Is this reverberating with anyone? Or do we just not care because this is the way our folder is and everyone else is just going to have to deal with it? I haven’t personally been hurt so anyone who has just needs to get over it. We like it so go somewhere else if you feel left out. Why should we bother to reach out when our needs are being met? (click?)
I can see that you are hurting, but I'm starting to think that perhaps you are looking for too much from a posting forum. I can understand feeling left out, but I'm just not really sure what specifically you would have liked people to do that would have made you feel welcome.
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 3:25:41 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1185
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Hilarious!
Phos is Fees! Okay! So when people call you Phosy do you hear that as Feezy?
quote:
Is that the fault of the entire folder? No. It may only be a couple ladies who fostered these events (and they may not even be regulars), and most of you are probably amazing ladies, but the damage is done and the results are the same.
Oh, isn't that sad? There was a Community folder regular who came to Kicka and posted. I was gone for a bit right then (for a few days, I think) and when I got back and read and caught up I noticed that NOBODY had responded to her. Ugh. I, of course, greeted her then and she sent me a PM and thanked me - then told me she had noticed nobody else had greeted her.  I felt so bad about that. Yeah, she didn't have a long post, BUT.SHE.POSTED. It's nice that some people are diligent in noticing even small posts or new people posting, but sometimes people fall through the cracks. It happens.
If you show up to the party, you get greeted at the door, you know?
quote:
but the damage is done and the results are the same.
Yes, this is unfortunate.
But the older I get (and thank goodness because I do feel very responsible for making other peoples' lives more pleasant - in real life and here when I can) the more I realize that there isn't anything else that I can do except what *I* can do. The best thing I can do when someone has acted like a bull in a china shop is to try to uplift that person that just got mowed over by the bull. I can't stop the bull, you know?
Okay, that just sounds funny but you get the imagery, right?
Jeanie
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RE: Why I rarely post in here - 8/22/2008 3:27:13 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 11078
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrudentWife
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Some of the clicks here will go so far as to plan an attack on the one naysayer.
Is that something you have first-hand knowledge of? I honestly have a hard time believing that one.
I'm way to busy to keep up with this (or any) thread and comment fully....
But yes, Lisa, I truly believe this happens. I once received a PM along these lines.
Seriously? Wow. I know my friends and I often end up in the same thread (although we don't always agree so sometimes it's "dangerous" to invite your friends to threads you find interesting. Ha! ) and sometimes we'll share when a thread is interesting or when we feel that we need some help because we're getting trounced unfairly or for second opinions to see if we are being appropriate or overly sensitive, but to actually plan an attack? Wow. I'm sorry someone tried to get you in the middle of that.
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Christine 
Thank you, Jalanda. Most of time I feel like a bumbler, lol. 