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selahgirl -> RE: The Ramp: training ground for Joel's Army? (8/23/2008 2:54:26 PM)
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My heart is breaking as I read what has been posted on the blog you mentioned. I left a Vineyard church four years ago that I have since heard is raising their youth up in THE RAMP ministry, taking groups regularly to Nashville TN. I know people at that former church that have raved about it, but I have just never had a good feeling about it. Which confused me because I loved Karen Wheaton way back when she was single and ministering thru worship and powerful words. But something just didn't feel right about this ministry. Mainly the obsessive reaction that I was seeing from the people that were attending it. The focus was on THE RAMP and there was an absence of the mention of Christ in their zeal. (Big flags with any move among so-called Christian circles).
But we knew little about it though some friends kept inviting us to attend with them. So my teenage daughter and I watched it on TV twice to get a taste of what it involved. Appearances looked like any other programmed dance ministry for teens... but there was something about it that felt really really yucky spiritually. We both felt it strongly with no question. We couldn't put our finger on it but we knew that it was not something we were to join ourselves to... even though several close friends at the Vineyard were deeply involved with it, and they sent their youth dance teams there regularly.
The root of my concern is that it breeds a spirit of rebellion in the teens in the age group that one of the bloggers addresses 15-18. That is already the most confusing and most rebellious and most arrogant age for most teens (though not all). There is much tension in even the best of families during those years. That is the area/time of weakness that the enemy attacks our kids.
I have seen this elitest/arrogant mindset at work in my former church. I have seen the teens ripped apart from their families as arrogant leaders manipulate their attention to feed their own insecurities. It is from the pit of hell. The enemies devices are being exposed, because so many are crying out to God for their children who have been manipulated by such eccentric pastors and church leaders soaked and dripping with false humility. Teens were taught to rely on the impressions and insight of their leaders above anyone else, to include parents and Scripture itself. Most parents are too busy/self-absorbed to pay attention to what is happening, or too exhausted/stressed to care.
I don't know if I can even effectively explain how the procedure works. But the rejection/trivialization of the Word of God is the key to their attack. Satan has always succeeded in deception and manipulating the minds of people by separating them from Truth... from the Word of God. He seldom uses outright lies, he prefers twisting Truth into a lie because it is so much more subtle and effective. He then delivers it thru some appealing puppet, such as other teens or college age people that have sold out to their leadership and become pawns. (In the garden the serpent was the pawn, in the tribulation it will be the person who agrees to be the anti-christ). The actual dirty work is seldom done by the true culprits.
In the post mentioned from the RAMP blog, the blogger quotes a verse from Galatians 2:19-21...
"For through the law I have died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.The life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God;
for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing."
Here is the twisting and manipulation tactic of the enemy at it's best.... the blogger goes on to warn teens between 15-18 years of age that...
"In this lawlessness, there will be those who will try to disprove what God is doing in accordance to the "law".
Satan is looking to use our own Bible against us.
believers everywhere would rather go to the law for information, and the acknowledgement of the Holy Spirit will be negated."
His reference to the law is done in such a way as to open the door to deny any passage of Scripture old or new Testament. It disregards the guidelines laid out for the New Testament church, by referencing a scripture that refers to the sacrificial laws laid out in the Old Testament strictly for Israel (though some still keep those dietary laws which is another thread).
I have seen this twisted theology in action among teens and among adults manipulated by a leadership out of control... convincing them to follow the kingdom of a man or a movement... under the guise that they are working for the Kingdom of God. It's a lie. It's confusing. It's convincing and subtle, just like the serpent was in the garden. He hasn't changed. He's very trendy and up to date in how he masks it, but it remains just as evil as the day he spawned the technique.
Leaders decide what is truth and what is the will of God based on whatever they decide God has spoken or revealed (but it is actually based on their own selfish ambitions to do something great and cutting-edge, that no one has thought of before them... even though some of them are deceived themselves about their true motives). If those leaders contradict the Word of God, it is covered up, justified, ignored -- or the person who measures their actions to the word is blackballed and labeled as rebellious and in sin... then they are foreced out of their synagogue and rejected. Sound familiar?
What me and my family experienced four years ago was the most brutal attack of hell I have ever known, and it came from people in the church world. It was a literal hell and shook every level of my faith and confidence in the good of people. But God walked us thru that gauntlet, we are still recovering, it grossly damaged one of my children and our family is still dealing with the aftermath of it all. But God is restoring and is so very gracious. Most of the teens that were among those that followed those leaders are suffering horrid hardships as they are college age now. Several are pregnant, have police records, are wandering thru life emotionally confused because they are no longer the center of attention of a leadership that used them up for attention then moved on to the next batch of 15-18 year olds. It has left a trail of broken people, lost children, and crippled families all in the name of working for the Kingdom of God.
I am so thankful that God opened our eyes and moved us out of that place. I'm so thankful that he made us stubborn about putting the word of God first in our lives as the spoken word of Jesus Christ. Anything, anyone, in life that goes against that or that touts anything above or even beside that name (or that fails to fall into accordance with his teachings) is to be avoided, rejected or rebuked. Whether pastor, friend, family, child, angel, or Satan himself. Such is the mark of the people of God, true Christians, those that follow Jesus Christ and no other -- He is the only way to the Father. Be careful of superficial talk by such people, they seem so beautiful and Godly outwardly. But watch the fruit of their actions and of their words (just as Christ cautioned)... the fruit that you witness them to bear, not what they claim from the past... their fruit born in the moment will expose the corruption that is inward... every time.
Also, there was a singer that recently claimed that he captured angels singing in the background of one of his songs recorded on his cd. I don't doubt that such an incident could happen, but the flag for me was that EVERYONE that I heard refer to it focused on the supposed angels rather than on what God was doing in that worship service when it was captured on audio. The hearts of people immediately rushed over to the angel camp with wide eyes hoping to witness one or catch a glimpse of some aspect of one... their focus and love for Christ and what he was doing took a backseat in their hearts. That is dangerous ground. That is a first and distracted step off the path.
I don't know the heart of THE RAMP, I don't know where it's leaders or Karen Wheaton stand. I do know situations where leadership has interfered in personal family business and dictated who certain teens could date or not date (over their parents). Not thru just hearsay, but actual friends I know. I do know that I see so much in the appearance of this ministry that lines up with the abuse and error I experienced and witnessed in my former church. If a close friend asked my opinion in the matter, I would say tread lightly or not at all until you've measured the heart of their teachings to the Word of God. And go with God as you seek out your salvation.
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