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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/25/2008 6:09:10 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 459
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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Malachi 2:13-15 (New King James Version)
13 And this is the second thing you do:
You cover the altar of the LORD with tears,
With weeping and crying;
So He does not regard the offering anymore,
Nor receive it with goodwill from your hands.
14 Yet you say, “For what reason?”
Because the LORD has been witness
Between you and the wife of your youth,
With whom you have dealt treacherously;
Yet she is your companion
And your wife by covenant.
15 But did He not make them one,
Having a remnant of the Spirit?
And why one?
He seeks godly offspring.
Therefore take heed to your spirit,
And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/26/2008 10:27:16 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 459
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From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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Someone I spoke to made a good point yesterday. People have to go out of the way to prevent pregnancy when a man and woman have sex. Condoms, birth control, morning after pill, tubes tied, tubes cut, etc. The possibility of pregnancy has to be purposely removed in order to not get pregnant.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/26/2008 8:44:33 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
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From: my mom by God
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There is an old testament figure...Oman, I think, who purposely did not impregnate his wife and it was trouble.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/26/2008 11:02:59 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
Is it a sin to not desire having a child?
Are those who are called to remain childless supposed to desire children?
Does the Bible say that a desire for children is something that all Christians must have? (I'm not talking about such commands as children are blessings, therefore we must always want to have them.)
I'm looking at it from a neutral standpoint because I want to hear both "sides," and how various people think about it, but I *know* it can be discussed in a civil manner, even when people don't agree. And it's not about birth control, QF, etc. It's simply about the desire to have children...not how many, etc.
Well, Solo, I was originally going to respond with a "yes, of course the Bible says have children", but from what I can gather, it more or less a given that we're going to.
I did key word searches on 'children', 'parents' and a combination, and these are the verses I think come closest
Psalm 103:17 - "But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children",
Exodus 20: 5-6 "for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments."
Mary and Joseph had children after Jesus:
Matthew 12:46 "While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him."
So, near as I can tell, there's not a direct command. I'll call (pm) rcjames. He's always got a ton of verses.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/27/2008 11:06:42 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1751
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: losgan
I believe that can certainly be the case! I have strong feelings lately that God is saying that children are part of His plan for my life ... but that I myself am to be barren. I feel assured I will have a "family" - just perhaps not in the traditional sense.
I don't think not wanting children is sinful at all. And I don't think marriage serves no purpose beyond child rearing. That's absurd.
If anything, I agree with losgan. I've always thought the desire to have a whole bunch of kids can very often (NOT ALWAYS) be very selfish/sinful (if pressed, I might go so far as to say most of the time, though). Honestly, I don't know why people think their genes are so great. I think having the two that I have was selfish. I think I do want more someday but could never, in good conscious, just go on adding souls to the world just because I want them. When we're ready to think about that, or when God brings that to us, we'll happily add to our family by adoption.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
We all desire things that we don't truly understand.
For those who desire children, have you spent long hours with them? Have you changed diapers and fed a new born? Been with one all day and night, and all day and night and all day and all night?
Seen a child you care for deeply hurt.
Discipline a beloved child.
Talk with teachers...deal with your child's friends....his successes or defeats.
The ideal of child ownership does not line up with reality. Its a huge undertaking. A life long commitment..not just cutesy baby things.
I always wanted to be a father and have loved my children the best I could and I am afraid that I have come short. Is there a wrose feeling than loving someone with all your heart and not being all that you should have been?
Just a reality check. If you can push the emotions aside, think clearly...childbearing is as much a calling from God as being childless.
And I think this is an excellent post! Not that any of it is a reason not to have kids (and I don't think that's what he's saying). But rather than question the lack of desire, maybe we should be questioning the desire to have children, as I said before. But many times the longing of young people or young couples to start a family is just so naive and idealistic. Maybe that's inevitable and just part of youth. But it's really something most of us enter(ed) into way to giddily with little or no real sober appreciation for what we were getting ourselves into.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/31/2008 2:59:10 AM
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makarizo
Posts: 3001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
Is it a sin to not desire having a child?
in some places, it would be considered a cultural sin.
my ultimate hero, while on the earth, didn't marry, didn't have children, ... loved children, and said this:
Mat 19:10 The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
Mat 19:11 But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given..........
taking care of widows and orphans seems to be more important than making widows and orphans
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/31/2008 1:59:26 PM
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lw9
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If someone does believe that not desiring children is a sin, what about couples with 10 children who wish to stop having children? That would be a sin as well under this definition. Just something to think about.
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Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 8/31/2008 11:09:44 PM
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backrowbaptist
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The fact that our society increasingly devalues children is a bad sign. It is symptomatic of deeper issues about the value of life. Individual Christian couples can examine their hearts and ask God for wisdom in this area, and for some He would no doubt say 'no' or 'wait'. But based on our command to be fruitful and multiply, and the numerous references and admonitions for parents in the Word, I can't help but think that God is not pleased when His people forego having children.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/1/2008 1:58:56 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
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No, I don't think it's a sin at all. I know several women who are obviously seeking the Lord and are purposefully childless. I do not considering them any more of a sinner then I am.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/1/2008 2:11:55 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 459
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From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
No, I don't think it's a sin at all. I know several women who are obviously seeking the Lord and are purposefully childless. I do not considering them any more of a sinner then I am.
Are they single?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/1/2008 2:37:11 AM
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everythingat
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I don't think the Bible gives any of us the authority to tell another married couple whether or not it's a sin that they don't have children. Yes, the Bible says to judge those who are inside...but I assume that judgment calls for prudence. And it is quite frankly prudent to mind our own business in this matter.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/1/2008 10:10:16 AM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 499
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quote:
ORIGINAL: everythingat
I don't think the Bible gives any of us the authority to tell another married couple whether or not it's a sin that they don't have children. Yes, the Bible says to judge those who are inside...but I assume that judgment calls for prudence. And it is quite frankly prudent to mind our own business in this matter.
Thank you! Since marriage IS between the two people involved, what they decide is between them and God and is nobody else's business.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/1/2008 11:05:46 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5068
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
No, I don't think it's a sin at all. I know several women who are obviously seeking the Lord and are purposefully childless. I do not considering them any more of a sinner then I am.
Are they single?
No. Does it matter? It isn't really our business anyway who has children and who doesn't. For all we really know, the couple that appears to be intentionally childless could have infertility problems.
I personally, do not judge. Not much point to anyway since I don't think there is anything wrong with deciding not to have children.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/1/2008 11:12:23 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
As a Christian, if you don't desire children, then is that a sin? If so... where does the Bible say that we are supposed to desire children if we are Christians?
I havent read that in the Bible. Only God can determine if you are going to Heaven and a Christian simply means a follower of Christ, who did not have any Children. 
I only wanted 2 children, a boy and girl. I had 2 girls in college. Was told by doctor that I could have no more. Fine. Cool.
Had a set of twin girls 13 years later! Supposedly thru one tube that was so scarred I didnt have to worry.  They are now 8. My other 2 are grown and each have 2. And I have my sisters 5 to take care of.
So on the average day you come to my house, theres lots of kids running around, from a woman that only wanted 2.
Remember man plans his way, and Gods plans prevail!
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/1/2008 11:25:25 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10604
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From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
No, I do not think it is sinful for anyone to not want children. There are married couples who might want to remain childless because it frees them to do more for Christ, such as become missionaries or be involved in other ministry work requiring a lot of time and sacrifice.
There are people who simply are not wired to be parents, and yes, that includes some christians. Those who recognize this and thus choose to not have children should not be castigated- their decision is their business and should be respected as such.
Well said!
Do we tell someone who cannot have children that they should not marry? Of course not! So why would we feel we can tell a couple who believe they are not called to bear children, that they shouldn't get married? If they are called to be a missionary to a place where they would not be able to be as effective in their ministry with children, they should remain single? Where is that in Scripture? In fact, I see something different in Scripture:
Paul tells folks to marry if they "can't control themselves" with no mention of children.
1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
The fact is, God makes individuals and each couple needs to prayfully consider for themselves what God's plan is for them. And everyone else needs to butt out.
I know this is not talking about the desire for children, but I think it makes an important point:
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'" 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/2/2008 3:34:10 AM
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Hayseed
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You are correct. It was about his direct disobedience and even an act of defiance against the Lord.
It has no bearing on this particular discussion.
_____________________________
My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/2/2008 7:22:33 AM
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Dona Nobis Pacem
Posts: 148
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quote:
Is not desiring to have children morally wrong?
Everyone is called by God to a vocation in life.
For some that means becoming a priest or other religious.
For some that means being a wife or husband.
Some are called to have children and some are not.
It depends on where the desire is coming from.
Is the desire that of the individual or are they being called by God for something other than being a parent?
Peace,
DNP
_____________________________
Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/2/2008 8:01:19 AM
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henny
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There's 6 billion people in the world.
The population is expected to hit 9 billion by 2040.
If anything we should be encouraging people NOT to have kids, just to avoid some sort of massive malthusian crisis.
I don't even know if the world can support 9 billion people.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
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RE: Is not desiring to have children morally wrong? - 9/2/2008 3:26:50 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10604
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From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
my ultimate hero, while on the earth, didn't marry, didn't have children, ... loved children, and said this:
Note that he didn't marry. And the entire Scripture was, if you can't hack it don't marry.
Childlessness by itself is not sin, and I didn't see anyone on this thread at least say so. Those of us on the other side of the argument have simply said that if there is a "childless" calling, it is part and parcel with the "celibate worker for the Lord" calling.
Actually, the entire Scripture has nothing to do with children but is simply saying that it is better not to marry at all than to marry then divorce. It is teaching on the seriousness of divorce, not the necessity of having kids.
And there is nothing in Scripture that says the only reason for not having kids is you are single or you are barren. Nada. I think we need to be very careful not to add to God's Word and make what God has called US to into what God has called EVERYONE to.
Children should only be created in the confines of a marriage relationship is not the same thing as a marriage should always strive to have children.
What of people who are severely disabled or who have a disease which doesn't preclude them from having kids, but which would preclude them from caring for the child or would be passed to the child and is deadly? Or having a child would mean death or harm to mom and bringing a child into the world that could not be cared for? I know folks in this very boat who have beautiful, God honoring marriages, but who chose, for the best interest of family to not have children. Are you saying they must remain single? And what happens if they were already married when such a condition occurred? Or the man is diagnosed with something terminal and chooses not to have babies because he will be gone and unable to provide for them? Are you saying that Scripture says they must now become celibate? I don't read that.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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