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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/3/2008 5:39:13 PM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Are you totally out of your mind?
If you really think these Hurricanes have anything to do with the Republican Convention you have alot to learn about God.
Answer me a question...what convention was going on when Katrina hit New Orleans? You have to have some proof to back up what you are saying. Otherwise it just looks weird.
This is interesting, because it sounds very much like the emails that I received right after Katrina that kept saying that it was judgement on New Orleans - how it was a sign or judgement from God. (Check this thread for a recap: http://www.faithcommunitynetwork.com/m_3528651/mpage_1/key_katrina%2cjudgement/tm.htm#3529974). While I don't agree that the timing of the hurricanes are a judgement against the republican convention, I don't think that this is something that is original to TracyDolls or that she is out of her mind or wierd for raising the possibility. We've had a history within the christian community of questioning whether God's judgement is being employed in the context of other natural disasters as well as diseases and illnesses. Why I find this line of thought to be interesting is because usually I hear talk about judgement for certain some disasters and diseases (aids which affected gays the most in the beginning of the epidemic, katrina which affected poor people, or the tsunami in sumatra which affected muslims primarily), but not others (such as the wildfires that affect california every year - mostly in affluent communities (or so it seems), the recurrent florida hurricanes, or various twisters and tornadoes that hit the midwest each year.)
I didnt say she was weird - i said it LOOKS weird. And it does. To sit there and type out on a Christian website that they have the slightest clue what God is doing with the weather sounds very simplistic.
None of us know Gods plan for anything thats happening now.
Yes i know of those ideas - even John Hagee said that Katrina was a negative nod to the homosexuals. And maybe he was right? Who knows - we dont. God is the only one that does.
But to say the weather is a sign of God being against the Republicans is really sad. If anyone is gonna say that they may as well learn where all the hurricanes are starting and think about that. Maybe He has something against them? Not likely.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: How Could a Christian Support Obama? - 9/3/2008 5:51:46 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Yes... Who is charged with helping the poor and needy...
quote:
I said this is where ME, Myself and I part company with the Republicans, never mentioned what the Dems do or don't do.
So your charge against Republicans isn't in contrast to what the Democrats do or don't do? You don't agree with the Democrats regarding the poor?
Charged, can you show me verse where someone is in charge of the poor and needy besides God.
We are not to help no matter who we are?
Naww..... I dont agree either with the dems "nanny state".
The verse that says the church is take care of the widows and orphans... And it's not about being in charge, but who is charged with the responsibility.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/3/2008 6:05:09 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Not all of us republican conservatives have been swayed.
Not all democratic liberals have been swayed either to vote the other side even though they dont have Hillary anymore.
I am probaly wrong but didnt Colin Powell say he was gonna vote for BO?
I don't know but maybe 5 other black conservatives.
ARmstrong, Rice, Watts, Steele, Amy.
Can you name anymore? Without looking!
quote:
Are you totally out of your mind?
If you really think these Hurricanes have anything to do with the Republican Convention you have alot to learn about God.
quote:
I don't think that this is something that is original to TracyDolls or that she is out of her mind or wierd for raising the possibility. We've had a history within the christian community of questioning whether God's judgement is being employed in the context of other natural disasters as well as diseases and illnesses.
Thank you!
It was addressed in Luke.
Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Powell never said that.
You don't get out much. Without looking it up:
- Alan Keyes
- Lynn Swan
- Clarence Thomas
- Walter Williams
- Larry Elder
- Rod Paige
- Jesse Peterson
- Bobby Jindal (Why not, if BO can be black with a white mama?)
- Alveda King (I don't know how conservative she is, but she is a champion of the unborn.)
I got all of these from memory in a few minutes and my memory for names isn't very good.
We'd have a lot more if about 1,400 African-American children weren't killed each day, about 13 million since Death Roe.
The KKK has it's hundreds, PPA has it's millions.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/3/2008 8:08:02 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
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quote:
Bobby Jindal (Why not, if BO can be black with a white mama?)
Just asking and since you seem to have ALL the answers( Bless your heart) but isn't Jindal born to Indian immigrants? How is Jindal listed with african americans?
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: How Could a Christian Support Obama? - 9/3/2008 8:16:28 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
The verse that says the church is take care of the widows and orphans... And it's not about being in charge, but who is charged with the responsibility.
Who is the Church?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: How Could a Christian Support Obama? - 9/3/2008 8:44:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
The verse that says the church is take care of the widows and orphans... And it's not about being in charge, but who is charged with the responsibility.
Who is the Church?
Not the Federal Government...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 1:05:20 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
Bobby Jindal (Why not, if BO can be black with a white mama?)
Just asking and since you seem to have ALL the answers( Bless your heart) but isn't Jindal born to Indian immigrants? How is Jindal listed with african americans?
Don't be so smug. The queston was about color, not sub-Saharan African ancestry. Bobby Jindal is dark skinned.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 7:39:47 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
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quote:
Don't be so smug
No Offense taken...In case you were wondering. I belong to a few fraternities, so believe me that might as well be a compliment. Now, moving on. As a Pastor turned Soldier, now a Vet who works with Soldiers, I find it rather refreshing the Number of Soldiers that are Christians. I guess if I was deployed away from my family 3 times in 5 years it would make me think about it if I wasn't one. Having said that, I find it equally refreshing the number if Service members who are in support of Barack Obama.
It turns out that among servicemembers more $$ monetary support is geared toward the Obama camp(what a shocker). About.....Face!
I just find it so Hypocritical for "social conservatives" to raise such a fit with us Democrats over a couple of "moral" issues and totally disregard the well being of the one's that give them the freedom to be so one-sided(for lack of another word).
You know Abortion and the gay thing, your passionate about this, most of you, I get that. What about our young servicemembers who were sent across the pond on False Pretenses? Do we think it's morally just to not only send them to Iraq for a quick war(here we are 5 years later) but to have a guy who is a former POW state that he can see us over there for 100 years? Man, look I know where in the world we've been stationed for 50 + years so spare me. I was stationed in Korea from 97-98. Rode in many buses, cabs, and subways. Not once did an I.E.D. go off killing Americans...Not once!
Untill Roe V. Wade gets overturned, if it ever does, how about caring just a tad for the one's that are alive. How can one party be SO Pro-life and at the same time be Pro- War?
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:08:50 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2067
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: online
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quote:
What about our young servicemembers who were sent across the pond on False Pretenses
False pretenses? Name one....
quote:
How can one party be SO Pro-life and at the same time be Pro- War?
Nobody is pro-war, but we are pro-defense of our nation.
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:24:14 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
False pretenses? Name one....
you have got to be kidding me? Man, I used to work with a fellow veteran, who is a (R) and is also a devout Christian, who I remember once asking him about the phantom weapons of mass dissapearance, LOL. Even he told me that he believed it was a lie from Bush. But even though he knew it was a lie, he was in full support of the war on Muslims....ERR....Terror. What a coincidence that so many military officals retired after they vehemently disagreed with the Administration's stategy or lack there of.
< Message edited by rcamejo01 -- 9/4/2008 8:32:02 PM >
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:36:16 PM
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stonek
Posts: 142
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
False pretenses? Name one....
you have got to be kidding me? Man, I used to work with a fellow veteran, who is a (R) and is also a devout Christian, who I remember once asking him about the phantom weapons of mass dissapearance, LOL. Even he told me that he believed it was a lie from Bush. But even though he knew it was a lie, he was in full support of the war on Muslims....ERR....Terror. What a coincidence that so many military officals retired after they vehemently disagreed with the Administration's stategy or lack there of.
Not what I hear from current active military we know.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:36:17 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
False pretenses? Name one....
you have got to be kidding me? Man, I used to work with a fellow veteran, who is a (R) and is also a devout Christian, who I remember once asking him about the phantom weapons of mass dissapearance, LOL. Even he told me that he believed it was a lie from Bush.
You are aware that the USA was not the only country that vouched for that intelligence information, right?
I mean, how could it be "Bush's lie"? He must be pretty slick.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:40:00 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
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I just would like to know, like many of the soldiers I treat on a daily basis is.....Where are the Weapons?
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:42:05 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
You are aware that the USA was not the only country that vouched for that intelligence information, right?
Your right Bush had a puppett at his disposal, Tony Blair. Yet how come so many of our allies thought it wasn't such a good idea. After all, Al-Queada didn't start operations in Iraq till after we did...
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:43:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
I just find it so Hypocritical for "social conservatives" to raise such a fit with us Democrats over a couple of "moral" issues and totally disregard the well being of the one's that give them the freedom to be so one-sided(for lack of another word).
One of those "moral" issues leads to the death of 3500 unborn children daily... The other leads to eternal damnation...
quote:
You know Abortion and the gay thing, your passionate about this, most fo you, I get that.
You are referring to murder and sexual perversion. correct? Two sinful things, correct?
quote:
What about our young servicemembers who were sent across the pond on False Pretenses?
You mean those who joined the service of their own free will?
quote:
Do we think it's morally just to not only send them to Iraq for a quick war(here we are 5 years later) but to have a guy who is a former POW state that he can see us over there for 100 years?
Personally I can't find justification for the Iraq war anymore than I can for murdering children in the womb....
quote:
Man, look I know where in the world we've been stationed for 50 + years so spare me. I was stationed in Korea from 97-98. Rode in many buses, cabs, and subways. Not once did an I.E.D. go off killing Americans...Not once!
Spare me, I was in Korea in 85'...
quote:
Untill Roe V. Wade gets overturned, if it ever does, how about caring just a tad for the one's that are alive.
I believe those who can't speak and stand up for themselves need more support than those who chose who join the military...
quote:
How can one party be SO Pro-life and at the same time be Pro- War?
Let's see....
War can be just... Right? If not God isn't just since He called for His people to wage it at times, and we can surmise that defending oneself isn't ungodly...
Abortion... Let's find a just cause for taking live in the womb...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:49:56 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
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quote:
You mean those who joined the service of their own free will?
Yes them. The one's that enlisted to defend us. Not to protect the retirement accounts of Bush, Dick, And Don.
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:51:04 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
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quote:
You mean those who joined the service of their own free will?
Wait...Free will? Weren't they "predestined" to enlist?quote:
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In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:52:06 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
I just would like to know, like many of the soldiers I treat on a daily basis is.....Where are the Weapons?
Where they are is irrelevant. The accusation is that Bush lied about them existing, and the fact is that many other countries agreed with the intelligence information that showed Saddam had weapons. If there were other countries in agreement then how can it be considered "Bush's lie"?
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:57:25 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
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quote:
Where they are is irrelevant. The accusation is that Bush lied about them existing, and the fact is that many other countries agreed with the intelligence information that showed Saddam had weapons. If there were other countries in agreement then how can it be considered "Bush's lie"?
WOW! Man this is getting deep. I'm glad I kept my Boots when I got out of the Army. Yes, SOME countries believed the Lies about the WMD. The UN had a hard time with it, Germany, France, Russia. Who was the world leader who woke up one day and decided to go to war with Saddam? Hmmm.....God Bless Texas!
Oh yeah, God bless the Dixie chics, to think I sopke out against them...
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:58:05 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
You are aware that the USA was not the only country that vouched for that intelligence information, right?
Your right Bush had a puppett at his disposal, Tony Blair. Yet how come so many of our allies thought it wasn't such a good idea. After all, Al-Queada didn't start operations in Iraq till after we did...
It's not about whether they thought it was a good idea to go into Iraq, it's about whether or not they agreed with the intelligence that Saddam had the weapons.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 8:59:53 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
Where they are is irrelevant. The accusation is that Bush lied about them existing, and the fact is that many other countries agreed with the intelligence information that showed Saddam had weapons. If there were other countries in agreement then how can it be considered "Bush's lie"?
WOW! Man this is getting deep. I'm glad I kept my Boots when I got out of the Army. Yes, SOME countries believed the Lies about the WMD. The UN had a hard time with it, Germany, France, Russia. Who was the world leader who woke up one day and decided to go to war with Saddam? Hmmm.....God Bless Texas!
Oh yeah, God bless the Dixie chics, to think I sopke out against them...
I don't know why you're getting so upset about this, I'm only asking you for an explanation, it's nothing personal.
Wasn't the intelligence gathered from other countries as well, and not just the US?
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 9:04:33 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
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I do not think anyone lied ... they had intelligence that was wrong ... fed to them by insurgence in such a way that it checked out by the standards they had at the time. I can be given information that is suppose to be reliable (like a school text book) and repeat that information to someone ... and when it is found that the info was not correct, I have not lied. I simply correct myself when I find out about the error. A lie is very differsent from a mistake.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 9:05:33 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
don't know why you're getting so upset about this, I'm only asking you for an explanation, it's nothing personal
you know your right. I guess I take it personal because even tough I've been out of the Army for 8 years, it feels like I'm still in at times. I work on one the most popular Bases in the world, I work for and with men and women in uniform. I get tired of these young men and women coming back in boxes or disfigured. So, yeah I might take it a bit personal, when folks get on here and talk smack about a volunteer Army. Duh! I'm aware of that.
About that intelligence, maybe somebody can help me here(I don't have all the answers) but wasn't that intel actually faulty intel. Didn't that cause for Bush to fire the CIA dir. to save face?
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 9:12:56 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
don't know why you're getting so upset about this, I'm only asking you for an explanation, it's nothing personal
you know your right. I guess I take it personal because even tough I've been out of the Army for 8 years, it feels like I'm still in at times. I work on one the most popular Bases in the world, I work for and with men and women in uniform. I get tired of these young men and women coming back in boxes or disfigured. So, yeah I might take it a bit personal, when folks get on here and talk smack about a volunteer Army. Duh! I'm aware of that.
No biggie. I would never talk smack on the Army though. And I appreciate your service. 
quote:
About that intelligence, maybe somebody can help me here(I don't have all the answers) but wasn't that intel actually faulty intel. Didn't that cause for Bush to fire the CIA dir. to save face?
Yes, the intel was faulty. But it wasn't until later that it was found to be so. Firing the director could have been to save face, and I'm sure it was, but also due to incompetence on the directors part.
As far as I remember (and I don't have all the answers either) we were already in Iraq by the time the intelligence info was found to be less than trustworthy. But previous to that the US was not the only country who believed it, and I honestly doubt Bush could have pulled such a grand hoodwinking if he wanted to.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 9/4/2008 9:14:30 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
I honestly doubt Bush could have pulled such a grand hoodwinking if he wanted to.
LOL, I agree with that! Or as we say down South." I heard that."
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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