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ORIGINAL: shadowspring
But true freedom, the kind of freedom Christ died for us to enjoy, is where each woman is free to follow her heart, and use her gifts and talents in the way she finds fulfilling. If that woman is a believer, I trust she will follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in all her endeavors.

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Loyalty to a more powerful abuser — in spite of the danger that this loyalty puts the victim in — is common among victims of domestic abuse, battered partners and child abuse (dependent children). In many instances the victims choose to remain loyal to their abuser, and choose not to leave him or her, even when they are offered a safe placement in foster homes or safe houses. This mental phenomenon is also known as Trauma-Bonding or Bonding-to-the-Perpetrator. This syndrome was described by psychoanalysts of the object relations theory school (see Fairbairn) as the phenomenon of psychological identification with the more powerful abuser. A variant of Stockholm Syndrome includes cases of abusive parents and abusive siblings in which the victim, even after entering adulthood, still justifies the family abuse.

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Why? Because of the hyper-extreme form of feminism that churches like to scare people with?

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.thinking about all those kids and women who were removed from that religious compound not long ago (what was that called? I cannot remember.)

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ORIGINAL: phosadaud

I've read posts here and there on CW that were very disturbing. One even lambasted women getting the right to vote because it took away a husband's authority. Heaven forbid a woman actually have an independant opinion...

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ORIGINAL: Sideways

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ORIGINAL: stateofgrace

I can't in good conscience call myself a "feminist" (even a white-washed one, LOL).

But I also stand in opposition to much of what these hyper-patriarch types teach.

Why? Because of the hyper-extreme form of feminism that churches like to scare people with?

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ORIGINAL: shadowspring

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.thinking about all those kids and women who were removed from that religious compound not long ago (what was that called? I cannot remember.)

Are you talking about the children's reaction to being forcibly kidnapped by the state of Texas?

Or the mothers' reaction to having their children forcibly removed by the state without due process and where there was no clear and present danger to their children?

Stockholm syndrome is the phenomenon of a kidnap victim bonding/identifying with their captors in a mental effort to survive the situation.

So Stockholm syndrome in this case would mean the children/mothers began to bond with their captors. You must mean the state of Texas? That doesn't make sense.

Because it would just be insulting to say that their choice must be insane or they would not choose that faith or that way of life.

My definition of feminism and freedom gives these women the right to choose to live under patriarchy, and the right to raise their children according to their conscience.

I do not choose it, but I support the right of other women to choose that life.

And when their children are grown, I support their right to choose their own life as well.

I will not denigrate their choice by calling it a form of insanity. That is where the backlash against feminism comes from.

I still have an article by a famous columnist who comes right out and says that SAHMs are just glorified prostitutes. That kind of name-calling and denigrating of women who don't make *your* choices is counter-productive besides being malicious.

Edited to add: I am all for government intervention where there is a clear and present danger to a woman or child's well-being. And I am not an advocate of FLDS in any way. I am an advocate of freedom, the freedom given to us by God to make our own choices about how we will live.

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ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
WHOA there, Nellie. I'm saying that children and women brought up in that environment, kept isolated and not permitted to know how other people live as in that case as well as the individual stories that were presented in this thread, who were for all intents and purposes brain-washed, do not have the necessary knowledge to choose that lifestyle. They don't know anything else. OR they have been conditioned to believe that wishing for something else, let alone choosing it, is SIN.

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ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon

I was thinking of the brain-washing that goes on in these patriarchal dysfunctional families...thinking about all those kids and women who were removed from that religious compound not long ago (what was that called? I cannot remember.) Thinking about how their reaction was probably very similar to Stockholm syndrome.

So, I Googled the term and found this alternate use...

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Loyalty to a more powerful abuser — in spite of the danger that this loyalty puts the victim in — is common among victims of domestic abuse, battered partners and child abuse (dependent children). In many instances the victims choose to remain loyal to their abuser, and choose not to leave him or her, even when they are offered a safe placement in foster homes or safe houses. This mental phenomenon is also known as Trauma-Bonding or Bonding-to-the-Perpetrator. This syndrome was described by psychoanalysts of the object relations theory school (see Fairbairn) as the phenomenon of psychological identification with the more powerful abuser. A variant of Stockholm Syndrome includes cases of abusive parents and abusive siblings in which the victim, even after entering adulthood, still justifies the family abuse.

I have seen this and experienced this. Only a prolonged exposure to other more rational families will begin to break through this psychological barrier. Something that women and children being purposely kept from others won't get.

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

All these remind me of the statement Jesus made to his disciples:

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
Mat 20:26 It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,
Mat 20:27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,

When we see people lording it over others, be they family, congregants, workers, etc, they are acting like gentiles. (that was an insult) HE said it is not to be so among you (that means us).

THis is a clear command from the Lord Himself for us to not do that.

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

All these remind me of the statement Jesus made to his disciples:

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
Mat 20:26 It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,
Mat 20:27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,

When we see people lording it over others, be they family, congregants, workers, etc, they are acting like gentiles. (that was an insult) HE said it is not to be so among you (that means us).

THis is a clear command from the Lord Himself for us to not do that.

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ORIGINAL: bluestone

I agree with CoeurdeLeon. I think over time brain washing and fear overcome people in exteme patriarchal conditions. The Texas case was possibly one of those. Men in their 50's mating with 14 year old girls is proof the mothers of these girls have some issues. Stockholm Syndrom is a possible explanation of why they bond with these men.

I agree with Crankius in her last post, too. We shold not attempt to own humans.

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ORIGINAL: landabee
Again: we are talking about the radical fringe elements found within families practicing patriarchy.

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My definition of feminism and freedom gives these women the right to choose to live under patriarchy, and the right to raise their children according to their conscience.

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rape,

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what you describe as "mating with a 14 year old", which would be properly termed child rape.

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ORIGINAL: shadowspring
Women who make other choices than working for a paycheck and/or birth control are not insane.

They have not been bullied into making the choices they have made.

They are not weak-minded or deluded.

They choose what they choose.

Why is that so hard to appreciate for feminists?

It is no wonder that being thus insulted and dismissed as child-like, delusional or prostitutes, many many SAHMs (who are all for equality under the law and in the workplace) avoid being associated with the term.