If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (Full Version)

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stampinlady -> If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 9:27:08 AM)

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to how our judical systems works so bare with me when I ask alot of questions.[:)] Are there judges up for election in the next 4 years and could they overturn it?



WesP -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 9:51:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to how our judical systems works so bare with me when I ask alot of questions.[:)] Are there judges up for election in the next 4 years and could they overturn it?


Well, that decision has to come from the Supreme Court. From a historical perspective, the odds of the SC overturning that ruling is slim to none unless there is a HUGE compromise to allow such a conservative swing to sit in the future.



PolarBear -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:21:16 AM)

There will probably be a couple judicial appointments in the next 4 years.

That is the one overriding reason why I believe it is crucial for McCain to win this. If Obama appoints his loons to the court, the chance of any rulings limiting abortion will be shot down for many years in the future.

The court is roughly balanced now. McCain will pick good judges. They may not overthrow Row v Wade (and in fact I think that is unlikely) but they may help put other common sense limitations on abortion in place.



SuspenseWriter -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:25:36 AM)

What are the chances of being overturned? None. It's been around too long, and Americans as a whole are simply too much in love with it to ever see it go away.



ManimalX -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:27:04 AM)

In answer to your question, first realize that Supreme Court Justices aren't elected. They are appointed by the President. It is assumed that there will be 2 Justices leaving the court during the next President's term, and the two Justices leaving will be 2 of the more liberal leaning Justices. If McCain is President, he will appoint more Justices along the lines of Roberts, Alito, and Thomas, which would have judicial implications for decades. We have amuch better chance of banning abortion with McCain's nominations than Obama's.



Jhud -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:27:48 AM)

Judges don't get elected, they are appointed to lifetime appointments, and then Presidents get to select their replacements when they either retire or die. One liberal justice is almost 90, so the likelyhood of him being replaced in the next term is very high, and replacing him with a conservative justice would change the balance of the court.

The chances of McCain selecting pro-life judges is about 100% better than Obama doing so.



csl7037 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:28:35 AM)

I agree, for many reasons, it's crucial for McCain or a conservative to be making judicial appointments the next few years - NOT Obama!!! And Roe v. Wade may very well be overturned - I believe even Ginsburg is on record as saying it's "bad law" - badly contructed and needs to be fixed. But Jesus Christ himself could be elected President and abortion isn't going away! Abortion isn't a problem with the law - it's a problem with the hearts of the people in this country - and politics isn't going to change that. I wish "conservative" Christians on the "right" would get a clue!



tinydancer2 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:52:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

Judges don't get elected, they are appointed to lifetime appointments, and then Presidents get to select their replacements when they either retire or die. One liberal justice is almost 90, so the likelyhood of him being replaced in the next term is very high, and replacing him with a conservative justice would change the balance of the court.




[&:] Is that so? Who came up with this , the Constitution? Why people cannot vote for those judges? Than Presidents comes from different parties and pick and choose their own judges to replace others?

I am ignorant like OP too about the ways of things are done regarding Supreme Court.

In my understanding this situation needed to be changed as no way - in my view - is right a person not elect by the people be seated in a chair for long long time until they die ?! How can that be in a democracy to have people "untouchables" and cannot be fired when doing bad job? Can they be at least impeached?


Thanks.



Starbucks880 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:59:34 AM)

Even if Roe v Wade was overturned, this doesn't mean abortion will be over. At most, it will be a mixture of states that have more restrictions to those who continue as is. There are a couple who could ban it, but I don't really know if that would happen. The majority of Americans do not support banning abortion altogether, so that is another reason I doubt it would happen. Not to mention that if not careful, this could easily decimate the Republican party and split the more moderates off from the conservatives and any election would make abortion more into the focus. I really don't think abortion will go away and that any conservative that thinks it will is just believing a fairytale.



Jhud -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 11:59:43 AM)

quote:

Is that so? Who came up with this , the Constitution? Why people cannot vote for those judges? Than Presidents comes from different parties and pick and choose their own judges to replace others?

I am ignorant like OP too about the ways of things are done regarding Supreme Court.


Yes, it is in the Constitution.

quote:

In my understanding this situation needed to be changed as no way - in my view - is right a person not elect by the people be seated in a chair for long long time until they die ?! How can that be in a democracy to have people "untouchables" and cannot be fired when doing bad job? Can they be at least impeached?


Judges can be impeached for serious offenses, but I think that has only happened once. And as much as certain justices bother me, the Consitutional basis for a lifetime appointment makes some sense - it keeps judges separated from being directly influenced by certain political factions, and being lobbied for votes as most of our politicians are.

Unfortunately judicial appointments have become more political in recent years, so the system is definitely showing weaknesses.

Part of the problem is judgs are ruling on issues that were previously considered to be in the pervue of the states, and so the political debates have moved to the courts.



bgwill3 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 12:06:33 PM)

I have one question, for clarity:

I know that McCain is personally against abortion. However, would he support a total federal ban of abortion? Or would he just prefer for states to decide (the federalist position)?

As I understood, if Roe v. Wade were overturned, we would simply revert to the states-rights position (with some states allowing and other states banning). Am I off base here?



bgwill3 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 12:08:09 PM)

Thanks Starbucks... Seems we were typing simultaneously.



Starbucks880 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 12:11:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgwill3

I have one question, for clarity:

I know that McCain is personally against abortion. However, would he support a total federal ban of abortion? Or would he just prefer for states to decide (the federalist position)?

As I understood, if Roe v. Wade were overturned, we would simply revert to the states-rights position (with some states allowing and other states banning). Am I off base here?

About McCain, it is really hard to know what he'd really do about abortion. One of the reasons over the years conservatives haven't been too happy with him is that he's always been considered soft on abortion. It is only in this election, he has changed to a more hardline position to try to please the conservative base so that they will vote for him.



todd_t -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 12:15:14 PM)

quote:

It is only in this election, he has changed to a more hardline position to try to please the conservative base so that they will vote for him.


Funny how election years can do that to one's positions.



Jhud -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 12:18:42 PM)

quote:

About McCain, it is really hard to know what he'd really do about abortion. One of the reasons over the years conservatives haven't been too happy with him is that he's always been considered soft on abortion. It is only in this election, he has changed to a more hardline position to try to please the conservative base so that they will vote for him.


Actually, that was one of the reasons his VP pick was so important; it would signal how serious he was about a Pro-life position - he appears to be very serious.



tinydancer2 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 12:27:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Is that so? Who came up with this , the Constitution? Why people cannot vote for those judges? Than Presidents comes from different parties and pick and choose their own judges to replace others?

I am ignorant like OP too about the ways of things are done regarding Supreme Court.


Yes, it is in the Constitution.

quote:

In my understanding this situation needed to be changed as no way - in my view - is right a person not elect by the people be seated in a chair for long long time until they die ?! How can that be in a democracy to have people "untouchables" and cannot be fired when doing bad job? Can they be at least impeached?


Judges can be impeached for serious offenses, but I think that has only happened once. And as much as certain justices bother me, the Consitutional basis for a lifetime appointment makes some sense - it keeps judges separated from being directly influenced by certain political factions, and being lobbied for votes as most of our politicians are.

Unfortunately judicial appointments have become more political in recent years, so the system is definitely showing weaknesses.

Part of the problem is judgs are ruling on issues that were previously considered to be in the pervue of the states, and so the political debates have moved to the courts.



Thank you very much, Jhud!

Are they at least the ones who has the best curiculum in their areas of law knowgdment in the nation? What the requirements for those who can apply for to the job at Supreme Court? I guess they must go by the law itself but individuals may have their particular standings as they rule but still go by the laws books? Well, I guess too among themselves are many tendencies going on? Do differnt Law School Universities does have tendencies of their own where their graduates are more liberal or conservative then others? And do they come up from being experienced jugdes before or being professors or lawyers or what?

This is very serious situation because the range of issues they jugde, abortion being just one of many many that affect peoples lives? Yep. What do they get to rule in this Supreme Court others lowers courts cannot?

What are the % they doing a good job in a sense most people are agreeing with their ruling?

Another question please: between the powers executive, legislative, justice who has the sure more power? Or all have equal powers ? Life is not and goes like a hollywood movie at all![:D]

Lord have mercy simple people may feel crushed by all of that going on in many layers of powers of influence and etc, hopefuly most have a conscience that they are serving all of us, " We The People".



Starbucks880 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 1:01:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

About McCain, it is really hard to know what he'd really do about abortion. One of the reasons over the years conservatives haven't been too happy with him is that he's always been considered soft on abortion. It is only in this election, he has changed to a more hardline position to try to please the conservative base so that they will vote for him.


Actually, that was one of the reasons his VP pick was so important; it would signal how serious he was about a Pro-life position - he appears to be very serious.

I don't think that is necessarily true. It really is smells more of pandering than anything. He wants the conservatives to swoon and thinks women will go ga-ga over a pair of ovaries. It doesn't have to do with the issues and really says nothing about what he will do if he were able to get elected. Even if he were serious about pro-life issues (which he might be, who knows), it would be very difficult with a Democratic controlled congress and the fact that even not all the Republicans in Congress are hard line conservatives.



cow451 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 1:56:37 PM)

None. You folks are dreaming. Roe V Wade was decided on the issue of privacy, not abortion. McCain has no strong reason to make abortion any more than a token issue.



rlj -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 2:05:02 PM)

None. There are 7 Republican appointed Justices now, there were 7 in 2000 and there were 6 or 7 in 1992 the last time it was openly challenged. If Republican appointed SCOTUS judges were the answer while simultaneously holding the White House and both Houses of Congress for 6 years it would be done. It hasn't and it won't.



raivyne -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 2:34:44 PM)

Abortion should never have become a federal issue. Overturning Roe v. Wade would only kick it back to the states where it belongs in the first place IMO.



Jhud -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 3:12:31 PM)

quote:

Thank you very much, Jhud!

Are they at least the ones who has the best curiculum in their areas of law knowgdment in the nation? What the requirements for those who can apply for to the job at Supreme Court? I guess they must go by the law itself but individuals may have their particular standings as they rule but still go by the laws books? Well, I guess too among themselves are many tendencies going on? Do differnt Law School Universities does have tendencies of their own where their graduates are more liberal or conservative then others? And do they come up from being experienced jugdes before or being professors or lawyers or what?


I think the vast majority of them are very experienced lawyers, previous judges (at the appelate level) and many were scholars. Where they differ is on Constitutional philosophy rather than experience.

quote:

This is very serious situation because the range of issues they jugde, abortion being just one of many many that affect peoples lives? Yep. What do they get to rule in this Supreme Court others lowers courts cannot?


Well, lower courts rule first, and then a certain number of key cases work there way up to the SC, the 'court of final resort'.

quote:

What are the % they doing a good job in a sense most people are agreeing with their ruling?


The court has been sharply divided on a number of issues, and it seems to generally break down with a 4 conservative to 5 liberal breakdon on most cases, though it may vary depending on the issue.

quote:

Another question please: between the powers executive, legislative, justice who has the sure more power? Or all have equal powers ? Life is not and goes like a hollywood movie at all!


They have different powers - some fear that the SC has more power than it should in that it often seems to be 'legislating from the bench' instead of simply following the Constitution as it is written.

quote:

Lord have mercy simple people may feel crushed by all of that going on in many layers of powers of influence and etc, hopefuly most have a conscience that they are serving all of us, " We The People".


Well, layers can be good as well- it often keeps the government from doing bad things too swiftly, giving the electorate time to react. Sadly, many don't really understand how our government if structured.



Jhud -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 3:15:05 PM)

quote:

I don't think that is necessarily true. It really is smells more of pandering than anything. He wants the conservatives to swoon and thinks women will go ga-ga over a pair of ovaries. It doesn't have to do with the issues and really says nothing about what he will do if he were able to get elected. Even if he were serious about pro-life issues (which he might be, who knows), it would be very difficult with a Democratic controlled congress and the fact that even not all the Republicans in Congress are hard line conservatives.


Yeah, and had he picked Lieberman he would be accused of pandering to win middle-of-the-road voters. Bottom line, everyone thinks the other candidate is 'pandering'.

And the Senate sits on a knife edge; guess who would get the tie-breaking vote?



tinydancer2 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 3:18:46 PM)

Originaly born in a country where abortion is illegal and people goes to jail for that and etc by being illegal it does not make people stop aborting babies particularly if they have money to pay "real doctors". There are whole different issues when abortion is illegal in nations. What I do think legalization does is to make it safer because is done in medical facilities not clandestine ones or self induce. Women will have much less physical damages and much less death while in the hand of profissionals, not hidding from the law. For this motive I think the numbers in the USA is almost 50 millions because "efficience" in doing it by trained medical staff . An efficient gov. may want to give an efficient procedure without thinking morality of the act, as they provide the service. I don't think "they" who allow the legality of abortions, will stop to think morality of those who choose to do it as killing a baby in utero. Well, I quite dont know how people deal in their specific professions as feelings goes when there are conflict in their consciences. If they loose their sleep and etc

I can sure talk just about my own conscience.



Dubya -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 3:23:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter

What are the chances of being overturned? None. It's been around too long, and Americans as a whole are simply too much in love with it to ever see it go away.

How long was "Separate but equal" the law of the land?

No offense, but I think you are wrong!



tinydancer2 -> RE: If McCain becomes president, what are chances of Roe v Wade being overturned? (9/2/2008 3:27:35 PM)

Thank you very much again! I am learning.[;)]


quote:

They have different powers - some fear that the SC has more power than it should in that it often seems to be 'legislating from the bench' instead of simply following the Constitution as it is written.



What this "legislating by the bench" means ? ( i may lost in translation in my head, lots informations going on.)

The simply following the Constitution would be what supose to be and even "neutral" by the law, I supose.


Fascinating! Thanks again.



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