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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 4:04:22 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
How about (4) - O'Reilly intentionally invited Obama to appear on his show inorder to create some believability for the charge that Obama was trying to upstage McCain.
It IS O'Reilly's show, after all. Who do you think decides who to invite on it - and on what nights?
It makes sense that O Reilly would take Obama whenever Obama wanted. O Reilly wants the ratings increase. He can only get that with prominent dems because Republicans appear on Fox quite often. So I think its far more likely that Obama (or his campaign) was in control of the timing. Of course O Reilly accepted Obama's terms.
As far as upstaging, non issue to me. Both campaigns did it, albeit in different ways. Politics is bare knuckled fighting.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 4:17:15 PM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
quote:
How about (4) - O'Reilly intentionally invited Obama to appear on his show inorder to create some believability for the charge that Obama was trying to upstage McCain.
It IS O'Reilly's show, after all. Who do you think decides who to invite on it - and on what nights?
It makes sense that O Reilly would take Obama whenever Obama wanted. O Reilly wants the ratings increase. He can only get that with prominent dems because Republicans appear on Fox quite often. So I think its far more likely that Obama (or his campaign) was in control of the timing. Of course O Reilly accepted Obama's terms.
As far as upstaging, non issue to me. Both campaigns did it, albeit in different ways. Politics is bare knuckled fighting.
The italicized portion is nothing more than wishful thinking contrary to the facts of life as previously expressed - O'Reilly is in control of, and responsible for, his *show*. To state otherwise is simple denial.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 4:29:10 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
The italicized portion is nothing more than wishful thinking contrary to the facts of life as previously expressed - O'Reilly is in control of, and responsible for, his *show*. To state otherwise is simple denial.
O Reilly can ask Obama on to the show as much as he wants. Obama has to accept and up until that point he had not. O Reilly has been dying for this interview and took it when he could.
The "facts of life" as you put it is that if someone really wants something (say an interview with Obama) and another person is in a position to grant it (Obama agreeing to said interview) but is ambivalent to the idea (Obama didn't appear anxious to enter the "No Spin Zone" although he probably wasn't scared) then the ambivalent person can set the terms and the one who really wants it can "take it or leave it".
Besides all that it "accomplished" for Obama was to get more eyeballs tuned in to Fox to watch McCain's surprisingly good speech. And I'm sure that no one has decided to vote for McCain because Obama "stole his thunder". Republicans complaining a bit is nothing unusual or significant.
The one thing we did get was an entertaining interview, nothing more.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 4:43:46 PM
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SwedishCovenant
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The theory being, apparrently, that liberals control who, what, and when they appear on O'reilly's show, and that O'reilly is merely a duped puppet in their control.
Nice talkin' to ya.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 5:10:02 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
The theory being, apparrently, that liberals control who, what, and when they appear on O'reilly's show, and that O'reilly is merely a duped puppet in their control.
I'm surprised I am having this discussion. If someone doesn't want to appear on a show how can they be forced to? Lets reverse this: what do you think Keith Olbermann or Jon Stewart would do to get George Bush or Dick Cheney to appear on their shows. Stewart begged Cheney to come on his show one time. Are you really saying that O Reilly can summon anyone to appear on his show at any time?
Granted O Reilly could say no to Obama's offer to appear on that day but why would he? Its ratings gold. Yes O Reilly agreed to the interview but it wasn't like he forced Obama to come on that day. Its far more likely that Obama's people controlled the timing and O Reilly had to accept it or hope the Obama people would find it advantagious to be interviewed by O Reilly another time. Obama doesn't gain as much from an O Reilly interview as BillO does.
I think you realize that your theory doesn't make sense but you don't want to admit it. Or you just like to throw ridiculous arguments into the air and watch people try to refute them while you throw vageries around. You do realize that whenever O Reilly does that ambush journalism of his he would rather have the target of the ambush come on his show. Again, its ratings.
quote:
Nice talkin' to ya.
Likewise
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 8:38:20 PM
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Rufas2000
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Just watched part 3 and I have to say tonight Obama really held his own with O Reilly, who did not hold back or take it easy. The topic was Obama's questionable associations (Wright, Ayers etc.). More good stuff.
New drinking game for those so inclined, take a swig every time Obama says "Bill let me make my point" or some slight variation thereof.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 9:41:34 PM
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Alligator
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O'Reilly got Obama to say on air, that he would come on the Factor. Then 9 months later O'Reilly was still waiting. He regularly hammered Obama, reminding him of the promise and showing that on air clip.
Finally the night before Obama calls and says "I'll be on your show" O'Reilly leaves the convention and flies to York PA. O'Reilley said it was probably a calculated ploy to deflate McCain's speech, but as a newsman he had to take the interview when he could, because he'll probably never get another one. Very simple and plausible explanation. Why all the conspiracy theories and search for ulterior motives?
So in the meantime I hear O'Reilly hammered by the left for being mean to Obama and he gets ripped by the right for being too soft on Obama. I've been watching the interviews, I see O'Reilly handling Obama just like every other interview. Perfect? No. But he is consistent and tries to get those people to answer questions. He really only starts hammering anyone when they won't answer the questions. O'Reilly is not a "cheerleader" - not the same way Hannity or Limbaugh are. They are very different in their approaches and the purposes of their shows.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 11:31:44 PM
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Bob_George
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My thoughts on Part 3.
Stupid questions. Been asked a million times. Obama's addressed them a million times. But whatever. I did think the interview shed some new light on the associations. He actually explained how to associations started and where they stand today.
He met Jeremiah Wright through his working in community organising. Went to church two times a month on average and never heard him say anything hateful. When some of the hateful things Wright had said came out, and he repeated those hateful things live during a press conference, Obama quit the church. Case closed.
He met William Ayers through their work for education reform. Obama was only 8 when Ayers was involved in terrorist activity. Since then Ayers has become an upstanding citizen and done a lot of work for education reform, which Obama was a part of. But they were never close buddies and O'Reilly seemed desperate trying to draw some sort of solid connection between the two of them. Even Billo admitted it was a bit of a stretch. Obama hasn't spoken to Ayers in a year and a half.
As for the Daily Kos. This is no big deal. It's really not. I'm surprised Obama even dignified this question with a response.
Overall I think he succeeded in making these associations a non-issue. Tomorrow is going to very interested. They talk oil.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/9/2008 11:48:55 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
Stupid questions. Been asked a million times. Obama's addressed them a million times. But whatever. I did think the interview shed some new light on the associations. He actually explained how to associations started and where they stand today.
While I understand why you think the questions were stupid I have to offer a different take. First lets not quarrel about O Reilly's intent. Only the final outcome really matters many times and I propose that is true here. We have our thoughts on it but were not mind readers so we can't be sure anyway. Having said that, O Reilly asking these questions was quite productive for two reasons, one of which you say in your post.
The first is that if we assume that Fox News is watched by right wingers that avoid CNN and MSNBC* then Obama got the chance to defend himself on a high profile show watched by a ton of people, many of whom most likely did not hear the other denials / explanations. And as I alluded to earlier, he did a great job of it.
Second, you say you learned more about where the associations started and where they are today. In other words you learned something about Obama. That is what an interview is supposed to do regardless of any suspected alterior motives. Now you have more in your arsenal to defend Obama the next time someone mentions Wright and Ayers to you.
* and their higher ratings confirm that some people only watch Fox, I imagine many of those are right wingers disgusted with the other two, rightly or wrongly. I'm not doing a Fox News right wing debate. It bores me quite frankly. I'd rather analyze the end product. If that right wing bias crops up during something that does interest me enough to analyze then I'll have to address it then. I do have a few posts where I discuss it but its one of those issues where each side won't give an inch.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 5:14:12 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
I agree with Bob. I saw that linked Obama speech on religion as being pretty smart, and even-handed.
Youve gotta be kidding...That shows exactly what Obama thinks of religion.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 5:20:04 AM
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Bob_George
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Youve gotta be kidding...That shows exactly what Obama thinks of religion.
He thinks his religion shouldn't play a part in his politics because America is a pluralistic society with people of different religious beliefs and to enforce Christian values on to people who aren't Christians would not be right. That was the basis of what he was saying in the clip.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 5:35:59 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Youve gotta be kidding...That shows exactly what Obama thinks of religion.
He thinks his religion shouldn't play a part in his politics because America is a pluralistic society with people of different religious beliefs and to enforce Christian values on to people who aren't Christians would not be right. That was the basis of what he was saying in the clip.
Why are you telling me what Obama was saying in that clip? lol
I already know what he was saying. He was saying in so many words that he dosent agree with Church and State. He was saying that no matter what he wont bring it into politics. Thats not what Christians do.
God wants us to do his will in all things. ALL THINGS. And Obama is turning his back on it.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 5:56:58 AM
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Bob_George
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Why are you telling me what Obama was saying in that clip? lol
I just thought that since you're so against what Obama said in that clip you mustn't understand what he was talking about. He's talking about the separation of church and state, which is the key to any successful society. Look at countries who don't separate church and state. Like Saudi Arabia. Probably the worst country imaginable to live in. If you think church and state should not be separate, talk to a Saudi. If their government will let you.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 6:15:22 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Why are you telling me what Obama was saying in that clip? lol
He's talking about the separation of church and state
Which is exactly what i already posted to you...
Im saying a Christian should adhere to Gods will in all situations. That means politics as well. I think its appauling that he would quote verses in the bible and make them out to be jokes.
Theres nothing in the bible that says 'ah well believe in me if you want - do what i say except when it comes to politics...'
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 9:59:45 AM
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letusreason
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Why are you telling me what Obama was saying in that clip? lol
I just thought that since you're so against what Obama said in that clip you mustn't understand what he was talking about. He's talking about the separation of church and state, which is the key to any successful society. Look at countries who don't separate church and state. Like Saudi Arabia. Probably the worst country imaginable to live in. If you think church and state should not be separate, talk to a Saudi. If their government will let you.
Hello!! The government of Saudi Arabia takes place in an ABSOLUTE Monarchy, and we are talking about "Churches" not mosques. With that in mind Russia is a much better illustration of separating Religion and God completely out of the political process.
What does a 19 year old kid in Australia know about the history of the U.S. Government anyway?
George Washington: "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."
John Adams: "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people ... so great is my veneration of the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read, the more confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens in their country and respectful members of society."
Thomas Jefferson: "The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty ... students' perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands."
Andrew Jackson: "That Book (the Bible) is the rock on which our Republic rests."
Benjamin Franklin: "A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know the price of the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved."
William Penn: "If we will not be governed by God, then we will be ruled by tyrants."
Ulysses S. Grant: "Hold fast to the Bible as the sheet anchor of your liberties; write its precepts in your hearts and practice them in your lives. To the influence of this Book we are indebted for all the progress made in true civilization and to this we must look as our guide in the future. 'Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people.'"
And it was the revival of 1835-45 in the Northern states that did the most to spur the Civil War to
free the blacks more than any other political or social movement.
Do you have anythign else to back up what you are saying besides abject assertions youngling?
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 1:05:29 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
He's talking about the separation of church and state, which is the key to any successful society.
Except for the small fact that NOWHERE in our Constitution will you find the words "separation of church and state'....
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 7:46:57 PM
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Alligator
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Here is what the first amendment says regarding religion -
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The Constitution limits the ability of government to influence religion, not the other way around. The courts, the bureaucracies which attempt to limit or influence religious thought and practice in the country are in fact, extensions of Congress --- therefore they are just as prohibited from this activity as much as the Senate or the House.
When Jefferson in his personal letters, not government documents refers to "the wall of separation" he is referencing the situation they had direct knowledge of at that time: the King of England, the supreme ruler of the country, was also the HEAD OF THE CHURCH. To think that the founders wanted to eliminate any influence or participation by Christian people in government is foolish and not supported by history.
Preachers were members of the house and Senate. They opened their sessions with prayer. Most leaders, even if they were not Christians per se, acknowledged Deity and recognized Judeo-Christian principles as the basis of society. It is interesting that modern secular progressives call everything regarding faith into question as "unconstitutional." Well, if that was the intent of the founders, we wouldn't be having this discussion today. Those traditions would have never been passed down.
It is interesting to note that between 1776 and 1962, no one had any problems with prayer, swearing in on the Bible or acknowledging God on money, and teaching Christian ideals in school etc. But from 1962 and increasingly onwards it became a problem to a certain segment of society. Now the secularists pretend to be "mainstream" and claim that it is Christians, not them who have deviated from the original intent of the founders and the constitution. History shows them to be deceived at best and liars at worst.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/10/2008 10:16:06 PM
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Rufas2000
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Tonight was calmer but still informative. No major O Reilly blow ups or Obama gaffes. Overall the interview worked out well for both of them. Gotta love the way Bill O works the interview into every other segment of the night ("so Dennis Miller, was I too tough on the Senator?", "Karl Rove, I thought Obama was sincere in our interview, what say you?", "Britney Spears, how did I do with Senator Obama?").
For those who might be interested, the entire interview airs Sunday at 8. Not sure if they'll do it in one long segment (hope so, it was only a half hour says O Reilly) or if it'll just be each individual segment shown separately with Bill O thoughts intersperced (not so good but OK).
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/11/2008 1:56:28 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
He was saying that no matter what he wont bring it into politics. Thats not what Christians do.
God wants us to do his will in all things. ALL THINGS. And Obama is turning his back on it.
Thessa, if I had a gold meal I would give it to you. Very few people, and even fewer Christians, are able to recognize the false division of the "sacred" and "secular" and realize that it is an erroneous worldview. A Christian with a healthy faith knows that they take the light of Christ into every aspect of life.
Bravo.
Back to the OP... I am a very empathetic guy, and I usually try really hard to like people. Watching O'bama with O'Reilly actually softened my heart quite a bit towards the guy. He still has abysmal policies and is a very foolish and dangerous choice for President, but I saw a little of what Obama's wife and kids must see in him tonight.
Other social policies aside, if Obama started acting out his Christianity and opposed abortion, he would probably win the Presidency by one of the biggest landslides America has ever seen. Shoot, if ANY Democrat abandoned the abortion plank, they would win, and win big.
Pray for the two O's (Obama and Oprah)
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/11/2008 3:28:29 AM
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Bob_George
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O'Reilly's almost on team Obama after that interview. He has a lot of praise for the guy. I think the only think stopping him being an Obama support in 2008 is oil drilling.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/11/2008 3:40:57 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Youve gotta be kidding...That shows exactly what Obama thinks of religion.
He thinks his religion shouldn't play a part in his politics because America is a pluralistic society with people of different religious beliefs and to enforce Christian values on to people who aren't Christians would not be right. That was the basis of what he was saying in the clip.
God doesn't agree and will not grant a wavier because there are people of different religions...
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Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/11/2008 3:43:31 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
O'Reilly's almost on team Obama after that interview. He has a lot of praise for the guy. I think the only think stopping him being an Obama support in 2008 is oil drilling.
And a frontal lobotomy...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Obama On O'Reilly - 9/11/2008 3:52:31 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
O'Reilly's almost on team Obama after that interview. He has a lot of praise for the guy. I think the only think stopping him being an Obama support in 2008 is oil drilling.
Obviously you dont know much about Oreilly do you? lol
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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