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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 9:59:57 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 818
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Offensive? No. Pretty much poking holes in the "marketing" of a candidate, Yes.
I found her humor on target and look forward to seeing her in the debates. The Lady can hold her own...as a person running for office should be able to do.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 11:01:02 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
I seem to recall an incident involving a whip. Not to mention a lot of verbal repartee.
When the government the Romans came to get him, He did not fight back.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 11:14:00 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
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From: Lake Wobegon
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You know, the left has spent the last eight years pouring out the vilest and most vituperous hatred I have seen in my lifetime against Bush.
This last week they lied about, attempted to degrade and demean a lovely person before she had a chance to speak.
All this week they have been trying disrupt the Republican Convention, destroying property, disrupting the lives of ordinary citizens, and trying to shout down John McCain as he made his acceptance speech, despite the fact that John McCain and the rest of the right gave Obama a week to celebrate his nomination, with McCain himself congratulating Obama publicly in a commercial paid for by his campaign.
And now, with the slightest of criticisms, in a contest that was designed by our forefathers to be adversarial in order to bring the most capable party to the fore, the Obama supporters (which include in this case vast swaths of the media) whimper and whine that they are being 'offended'.
If that is all it takes, go home now, because you simply don't have the fortitude to handle the job, leave it to those who do.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 11:24:16 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
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I didn't hear the speeches....but that is what conventions speeches are all about.
Fire up the base by attacking the opposition party.
I have a bigger issue with some of the political TV adds which are intentionally misleading.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 11:28:35 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
You know, the left has spent the last eight years pouring out the vilest and most vituperous hatred I have seen in my lifetime against Bush.
This last week they lied about, attempted to degrade and demean a lovely person before she had a chance to speak.
All this week they have been trying disrupt the Republican Convention, destroying property, disrupting the lives of ordinary citizens, and trying to shout down John McCain as he made his acceptance speech, despite the fact that John McCain and the rest of the right gave Obama a week to celebrate his nomination, with McCain himself congratulating Obama publicly in a commercial paid for by his campaign.
And now, with the slightest of criticisms, in a contest that was designed by our forefathers to be adversarial in order to bring the most capable party to the fore, the Obama supporters (which include in this case vast swaths of the media) whimper and whine that they are being 'offended'.
If that is all it takes, go home now, because you simply don't have the fortitude to handle the job, leave it to those who do.
I haven't seen Obama part of that mockery and degradation of the REPs and McCain/Palin. I think the media, though, is deifnitely left-wing biased for the most part. Completely blinded by love of Obama's aura and lofty words and unable to fairly critique him, while lumping McCain with the "evil empire" of the Bush years and of course shameless going after Palin's personal life.
I don't disagree that much of the speeches were within a degree of civility with light-hearted, but critical barbs against Obama/Biden. All I was pointing out was that in a few places it went into mockery and arrogance/cockiness. Compared with how Obama/Biden handled their speeches and their consistent style, it was a contrast.
At least when comparing Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin, the few minor over the line attacks came from the REPs, not Dems. The media I did not count, because Obama cannot control them.
All said, this is my first real election that I've followed, so this is all new to me. 
If it's been traditionally worse than this, then I am just a newbie and probsbly not able to see the whole picture. Still, wouldn't it be great to have all nice comments and any critical comments done in a civil way? It's ok to be righteously angry, but it'd be great to not use arrogant mockery.
I loved McCain's speech tonight. Found myself on verge of tears at times.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 11:35:51 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
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...and hats off to McCain for refusing to resort to sarcasm and cheap shots in his speech tonight. If only the political surrogates from both sides would follow suit...
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 11:36:02 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
If it's been traditionally worse than this, then I am just a newbie and probsbly not able to see the whole picture. Still, wouldn't it be great to have all nice comments and any critical comments done in a civil way? It's ok to be righteously angry, but it'd be great to not use arrogant mockery.
For people who think that elections used to be 'nicer', I like to show them this:
The Adams/Jefferson campaign ad
Obviously the commercial didn't exist, but it's based on actual things that were written about Jefferson in the press at the time by Adams supporters.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/4/2008 11:46:56 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
For people who think that elections used to be 'nicer', I like to show them this:
The Adams/Jefferson campaign ad
Obviously the commercial didn't exist, but it's based on actual things that were written about Jefferson in the press at the time by Adams supporters.
I'll have to check that out. But if it's been so bad, that does go to show how much greater Obama is for refusing to get dragged into it.
Although I do recall him being quite harsh of Hillary ....I don't rmeember, but I vaguely recall him putting Hillary down for ties to corporate America or something...to which she said Obama was working with that guilty convicted slum lord in Chicago....I remember they got somewhat nasty....but can't recall if it was over-the-line or not for Obama.
I think Obama and McCain have handled themselves pretty well. McCain more so.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 12:07:52 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1956
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Some people are just too thin skinned....
I'm not thin skinned by any means, but I find the mocking tone that's become SOP for the Republican party to be a bit on the intellectually insulting side. If you honestly believe that your ideas are better than the opponents' ideas, then compete on your ideas, not on corny one-liners and cheap shots at your opponents that anybody without (R)ose-colored glasses can see for exactly what they are.
Palin may be a smart, capable woman, but I thought her speech was fairly demeaning on a number of levels. In addition to the aforementioned barbs (which were, relatively speaking, fairly mild), I found the tactic of appealing straight to the base with more over-simplified policy position to be tiresome and insulting to people who really care about the issues and who care about seeing effective, pragmatic policies enacted.
I wasn't particularly inspired by McCain's speech tonight, but the overall tone of it was considerably more gracious and dignified than Palin's.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 12:28:21 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1444
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quote:
I'm not thin skinned by any means, but I find the mocking tone that's become SOP for the Republican party to be a bit on the intellectually insulting side. If you honestly believe that your ideas are better than the opponents' ideas, then compete on your ideas, not on corny one-liners and cheap shots at your opponents that anybody without (R)ose-colored glasses can see for exactly what they are.
I've found that one's perception of what's brilliant repartee versus what's corny one-liners and cheap shots in a "mocking tone" depends a good deal on whom one supports.
Here's a few one-liners.
"Senator McCain likes to talk about judgment, but, really, what does it say about your judgment when you think George Bush has been right more than 90 percent of the time?"
"Now, I don't believe that Senator McCain doesn't care what's going on in the lives of Americans; I just think he doesn't know."
"It's not because John McCain doesn't care; it's because John McCain doesn't get it."
"You know, John McCain likes to say that he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell, but he won't even follow him to the cave where he lives."
Can you see how someone who disagrees with Obama would see those as corny one-liners and cheap shots in a mocking tone? And that's just a few quotes from Obama's acceptance speech.
Both parties use mocking one-liners. They're an easy sell because they're catchy. They show up on the news talking points and people remember them. This is not a big surprise here.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 12:33:30 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I'm not thin skinned by any means, but I find the mocking tone that's become SOP for the Republican party to be a bit on the intellectually insulting side. If you honestly believe that your ideas are better than the opponents' ideas, then compete on your ideas, not on corny one-liners and cheap shots at your opponents that anybody without (R)ose-colored glasses can see for exactly what they are.
Palin may be a smart, capable woman, but I thought her speech was fairly demeaning on a number of levels. In addition to the aforementioned barbs (which were, relatively speaking, fairly mild), I found the tactic of appealing straight to the base with more over-simplified policy position to be tiresome and insulting to people who really care about the issues and who care about seeing effective, pragmatic policies enacted.
I'm sorry, but if Sarah Palin's speech 'offended' you, you are thin skinned by definition.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 12:37:47 AM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 537
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Good points Zhi.
Obama's barbs seemed less harmful to me, because I didn't believe them....Maybe that was it.
Palin's seemed razor sharp and cutting at times, because they wre true.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 12:38:58 AM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 537
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Though I must say...even if Obama made similarly distasteful remarks (it's arguable), that doesn't make it right for either side. Two rights don't make a wrong.
I'd still prefer cleaner politics. But that's probabyl asking too much. 
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 12:46:52 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Palin may be a smart, capable woman, but I thought her speech was fairly demeaning on a number of levels. In addition to the aforementioned barbs (which were, relatively speaking, fairly mild), I found the tactic of appealing straight to the base with more over-simplified policy position to be tiresome and insulting to people who really care about the issues and who care about seeing effective, pragmatic policies enacted.
Agreed.
And I think it was demeaning to her as well.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 12:47:11 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1956
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
I'm not thin skinned by any means, but I find the mocking tone that's become SOP for the Republican party to be a bit on the intellectually insulting side. If you honestly believe that your ideas are better than the opponents' ideas, then compete on your ideas, not on corny one-liners and cheap shots at your opponents that anybody without (R)ose-colored glasses can see for exactly what they are.
I've found that one's perception of what's brilliant repartee versus what's corny one-liners and cheap shots in a "mocking tone" depends a good deal on whom one supports.
Here's a few one-liners.
"Senator McCain likes to talk about judgment, but, really, what does it say about your judgment when you think George Bush has been right more than 90 percent of the time?"
"Now, I don't believe that Senator McCain doesn't care what's going on in the lives of Americans; I just think he doesn't know."
"It's not because John McCain doesn't care; it's because John McCain doesn't get it."
"You know, John McCain likes to say that he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell, but he won't even follow him to the cave where he lives."
Can you see how someone who disagrees with Obama would see those as corny one-liners and cheap shots in a mocking tone? And that's just a few quotes from Obama's acceptance speech.
Both parties use mocking one-liners. They're an easy sell because they're catchy. They show up on the news talking points and people remember them. This is not a big surprise here.
FWIW, I didn't particularly care for those, either.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I'm not thin skinned by any means, but I find the mocking tone that's become SOP for the Republican party to be a bit on the intellectually insulting side. If you honestly believe that your ideas are better than the opponents' ideas, then compete on your ideas, not on corny one-liners and cheap shots at your opponents that anybody without (R)ose-colored glasses can see for exactly what they are.
Palin may be a smart, capable woman, but I thought her speech was fairly demeaning on a number of levels. In addition to the aforementioned barbs (which were, relatively speaking, fairly mild), I found the tactic of appealing straight to the base with more over-simplified policy position to be tiresome and insulting to people who really care about the issues and who care about seeing effective, pragmatic policies enacted.
I'm sorry, but if Sarah Palin's speech 'offended' you, you are thin skinned by definition.
Perhaps. But I didn't say I was offended. "Mildly annoyed" is more like it.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 2:32:40 AM
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saved9201
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It's obvious the tactic is for Palin to continue to attack and demean Obama in an attempt to bait either him or Biden, preferably Obama, into attacking her. Watch. The first, I mean the very first time Obama says anything negative about Her Highness, it will be blown completely out of proportion. Obama will be declared mean and immoral and will call for good hard working Christian voters to defend the sweet pure and righteous Mrs. Palin's honor against the vicious attacks of this uppity, ungodly...man. This will play real good in the south, for obvious reasons.
McCain's a genius. He couldn't have picked a better attack dog.
- Julius
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 2:46:32 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
It's obvious the tactic is for Palin to continue to attack and demean Obama in an attempt to bait either him or Biden, preferably Obama, into attacking her. Watch. The first, I mean the very first time Obama says anything negative about Her Highness, it will be blown completely out of proportion. Obama will be declared mean and immoral and will call for good hard working Christian voters to defend the sweet pure and righteous Mrs. Palin's honor against the vicious attacks of this uppity, ungodly...man. This will play real good in the south, for obvious reasons.
McCain's a genius. He couldn't have picked a better attack dog.
Hey Julius!
Was'nt Karl Rove brilliant? I mean I got to hand it to him! That man is smart, and ruthless.
It will be Rosewood all over again if Obama even*looks* at her wrong. Everyone knows that, (shhh.. dont say it ) but thats why she was picked. And now her honor has to be restored, fought over, etc.
I was hoping I'm wrong in my views, this time I want to be just crazy or paranoid, but it's back to the same ole same ole.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 2:52:09 AM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
It's obvious the tactic is for Palin to continue to attack and demean Obama in an attempt to bait either him or Biden, preferably Obama, into attacking her. Watch. The first, I mean the very first time Obama says anything negative about Her Highness, it will be blown completely out of proportion. Obama will be declared mean and immoral and will call for good hard working Christian voters to defend the sweet pure and righteous Mrs. Palin's honor against the vicious attacks of this uppity, ungodly...man. This will play real good in the south, for obvious reasons.
McCain's a genius. He couldn't have picked a better attack dog.
Hey Julius!
Was'nt Karl Rove brilliant? I mean I got to hand it to him! That man is smart, and ruthless.
It will be Rosewood all over again if Obama even*looks* at her wrong. Everyone knows that, (shhh.. dont say it ) but thats why she was picked. And now her honor has to be restored, fought over, etc.
I was hoping I'm wrong in my views, this time I want to be just crazy or paranoid, but it's back to the same ole same ole.
Would McCain risk his Presidency on a risky pick like Palin if he didn't really believe in her? ....I don't think he picked her to use her as an attack dog if that was what was implied. He seems like a genuine guy.
Perhaps it was the speech writers and strategists who made her come across that way, in addition to her own personality. Again, the comments weren't all compltely over teh top. Many of them were within the lines of civility and had true and accurate criticisms.
But like I said, a few did seems a bit too arogant in tone and attack.
Obama's got his own problems to deal with....I don't think he's worrying too much about if the media is gonna go after him for criticizing Palin - if he does. He's gotta worry about his own shortcomings.
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 2:56:11 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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Don't worry about Obama, he knows he can't take on Palin - he is sending out his Fembots to do his dirty work for him, like the manly man he is.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 3:40:42 AM
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Matt Smith
Posts: 57
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Austin, TX
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I think some zingers just make the person look petty. Not dignified, not Presidential.
Mocking Obama's former profession (community organizing) as having no responsibilities made her look petty. Community organizing for low pay is a pretty noble thing to do. I don't think it showed a ton of charity or love on her part. Or class. I expected better from a self-identified Christian.
Matt
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 6:22:48 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1752
Joined: 3/24/2008
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I love how people hold Obama up as a paragon of grace and class and as the standard for treatment of the other candidates when A. he's said the exact same things and B. when he claims to want to stay out of it (with the kids), he just lets every other Democrat and reporter in the mix go as brutal as they want and do his dirty work for him. How can people be so snowed by this guy?
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RE: Was Guiliani and Palin Humor too Offensive? - 9/5/2008 8:53:58 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 712
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Don't worry about Obama, he knows he can't take on Palin - he is sending out his Fembots to do his dirty work for him, like the manly man he is.
First of all, I used a similar term to describe feminists who were over the top in their support of Hillary once in this forum and I was told by some females here how offended they were and how divisive that term was, etc., so I apologized and promised never to use that term again. But I digress.
Funny, usually when the HP is used as a source, it is immediately dismissed as a left wing rag. But I digress again.
Yeah, you're right Jack, but Obama won't be the first candidate to send a female to do his "dirty work" for him. Isn't that what this thread is about?
But, sending "fembot" (I'm only quoting ladies, that's not my term) Hillary Clinton out to campaign for him and attack Palin has got to be Obama's strategy now. He has no choice, as I said, he can't do it himself. If he says anything bad about Palin, it will be spun completely out of proportion. Problem is, he WILL say something "bad" about Palin or Cindy McCain, you can count on it. It doesn't even have to be him. Someone on the left completely unattached to the Obama campaign can make a comment and some will try to claim Obama made them say it. It may be innocent on the surface, but the right wing media and the McCain camp will spin it that way, just to incite hard working Americans into coming to her defense for insulting that fine woman's "honor". Again, brilliant.
- Julius
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