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Memaw. -> Feminist (9/6/2008 4:29:19 PM)

I put this here because I am curious as what other women consider a feminist to be.

(I would ask the men but I'm pretty sure I know what they think it is.[8D])

I know in my experience, that word has always been used (hurled) as an insult, but lately I am wondering if there is a shift in my thinking or in the way the word is used.
Is it an insult anymore?

What (in your thinking, your belief) is a feminist?



ChiefWannahakaloogie -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 5:44:09 PM)

to me, a feminist is a woman who puts herself 'above' other men, who believes she can do more things, and do them better, than any man could. she believes men and women were made physically equal. she thinks she doesn't need a man around to help her, to be a gentleman, because she's afraid it will make her look lesser to admit she needs a man.

anyways thats just my opinion.



christsstar -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 5:57:42 PM)

I never thought feminists were bad ... until I joined CW. And then I moved to Cali and saw what all the CWers were referring to.

However, my entire life I considered feminists people (not just women, but mostly women) who fought for equal rights of women. In this day and age, I figured it wasn't as necessary as it was 50 years ago or so.

Now that I've moved to Cali, I see that feminists are often used as labels on women who are out for themselves, see men as bad, against family values, and basically for the movement of women being the major sex. My future SIL (and her partner) could be considered feminists. Their OK people, one more of an extremist than the other. But overall, they aren't mean or evil or anything.



Sideways -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 6:39:27 PM)

I've always view feminist as someone believes that a woman deserves equal pay for equal work, the right not to be sexually harassed at work. As a feminist I believe that women should be allowed to get a higher education if she can hack the academics, should be considered equally for a job she is qualified for.

I believe that a woman's place is not necessarily in the home, even if she has young children, but that it is a private matter between the family and God how the children should be cared for an the bills should be paid. As a feminist, I believe that it is equally good if a woman chooses to SAH for whatever length of time works out best for her and her family.

True feminism is about choice. The choice to get married or not; the choice to conceive a child or not; the choice to pursue a career of her choice.

True feminism is NOT about hating men or killing babies, but unfortunately some extremists like the ones Christine knows in California have made it out to be that way, and some churches like to use feminism as an insult to any woman who is "to bold or to confident" or doesn't fit the exact mold that they think all women everywhere should fit into.



MrsTracy72 -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 6:54:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefWannahakaloogie

to me, a feminist is a woman who puts herself 'above' other men, who believes she can do more things, and do them better, than any man could. she believes men and women were made physically equal. she thinks she doesn't need a man around to help her, to be a gentleman, because she's afraid it will make her look lesser to admit she needs a man.

anyways thats just my opinion.



pretty much what she said. I think that in order NOT to be a feminist, you already do believe that you are equal to men. Otherwise, why make a distinction between woman and feminist?



spitzu -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 7:06:10 PM)

My thoughts used to be like ChiefWannahakaloogie's post, but now they're more like the one Sideways shared. I was mistaken as to the true meaning of the word for a long time.



NotDoneYet -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 7:53:17 PM)

To me, a feminist is a woman who no longer believes in the patriarchial, male superiority idea. I am married, but I am far from a "submissive" wife. I am an equal partner, my voice will be heard, my ideas and desires will be considered before any decision is made, I do not need to say "father may I" before I leave the house, spend money, whatever. I have my own career, bank accounts, credit cards, retirement fund. I do not depend on my husband to support me financially. We are together because we want to be together, not because I need someone to feed, clothe, house me and my children. We share ideas, desires, finances, etc. but I do not rely on him in any way, shape or form.

I used to buy into the submissive wife idea...and later found myself homeless when my now X husband decided that he desired another woman and I was in the way.

NDY



Sideways -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 7:53:44 PM)

Just for kicks, here is the definition out of Webster's Dictionary:


fem·i·nism

1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

— fem·i·nist \-nist\ noun or adjective
— fem·i·nis·tic \ˌfe-mə-ˈnis-tik\ adjective



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 7:56:22 PM)

quote:

I've always view feminist as someone believes that a woman deserves equal pay for equal work...


I wonder why women still don't get equal pay. [8|]



Sideways -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 8:01:24 PM)

As a feminist, I would say that I rely on my husband, and he relies on me. We depend on each other. But we respect each other and listen to each other and talk to each other. We have a limited amount of money we can spend without asking each other, but above that we do talk to each other. We check with each other before leaving the house. But the "rules" are the same for both, as far as spending money, going out and things like that.

I think part of feminism is asking for equal treatment, not that we are identical to men, but that we deserve equal respect as a marriage partner, as a work colleague, etc.



thedivabrat -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 8:04:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sideways

I've always view feminist as someone believes that a woman deserves equal pay for equal work, the right not to be sexually harassed at work. As a feminist I believe that women should be allowed to get a higher education if she can hack the academics, should be considered equally for a job she is qualified for.

I believe that a woman's place is not necessarily in the home, even if she has young children, but that it is a private matter between the family and God how the children should be cared for an the bills should be paid. As a feminist, I believe that it is equally good if a woman chooses to SAH for whatever length of time works out best for her and her family.

True feminism is about choice. The choice to get married or not; the choice to conceive a child or not; the choice to pursue a career of her choice.

True feminism is NOT about hating men or killing babies, but unfortunately some extremists like the ones Christine knows in California have made it out to be that way, and some churches like to use feminism as an insult to any woman who is "to bold or to confident" or doesn't fit the exact mold that they think all women everywhere should fit into.


Excellent!



Mrs.X -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 10:36:23 PM)

Recently, I came to know that feminism and extreme feminism are different. Extreme feminism is what Christine described in California. Feminism is what Ruth described about equal pay, etc.



ChiefWannahakaloogie -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 10:54:03 PM)

quote:

We share ideas, desires, finances, etc. but I do not rely on him in any way, shape or form.

forgive me if im wrong, but isint marriage about relying on eachother, depending on one another? whether your feminist or not, if you dont rely on one another that just seems a bit odd to me

i live in california, so the only feminists i see are like the ones i described above. im all for the womens rights movement way back in the day, but i also believe God made men to be protectors and providers for women.

quote:

I used to buy into the submissive wife idea...


Ephesians says-"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands."

well its pretty obvious right there. God commands us to be submissive to our husbands. does this mean letting him trample over your rights, give you no control financial-wise, etc? nope. the verse goes on to say

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband."

so the man rules over the woman in the marriage. but God also commands him to love her as if she were his own body.



NotDoneYet -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 11:25:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefWannahakaloogie

quote:

We share ideas, desires, finances, etc. but I do not rely on him in any way, shape or form.

forgive me if im wrong, but isint marriage about relying on eachother, depending on one another? whether your feminist or not, if you dont rely on one another that just seems a bit odd to me

i live in california, so the only feminists i see are like the ones i described above. im all for the womens rights movement way back in the day, but i also believe God made men to be protectors and providers for women.

quote:

I used to buy into the submissive wife idea...


Ephesians says-"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands."

well its pretty obvious right there. God commands us to be submissive to our husbands. does this mean letting him trample over your rights, give you no control financial-wise, etc? nope. the verse goes on to say

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband."

so the man rules over the woman in the marriage. but God also commands him to love her as if she were his own body.


"so the man rules over the woman in the marriage." No...not in this house.

My husband is my companion, my friend and my lover. Yet, I do not rely on him to be the one to support me, fulfill my needs, make me happy.

Perhaps my feelings are tainted by the bad experience I had previously...but it's nice to know that at the end of the day I am not beholden to him for my shelter, my food, my clothes, or anything else...we are together because we WANT to be...not because of some notion that I need someone to take care of me or support me and my children.



spitzu -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 11:35:52 PM)

My husband does not rule over me either... we're partners. Sure, he's my spiritual head, but does not rule me, nor would he ever want to (thank goodness).



ChiefWannahakaloogie -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 11:36:55 PM)

God made the man to lead. spiritually, financially, etc. the man is supposed to be the supporter of the family. God made the man to lead the house, the woman to manage it.

its not like the man's role as the leader degrades the woman or makes her less. man and woman were made to depend on eachother, its just that simple.



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 11:41:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spitzu

My husband does not rule over me either... we're partners. Sure, he's my spiritual head, but does not rule me, nor would he ever want to (thank goodness).


Spiritual head, and deciding vote if we ever can't agree but he does not rule over me.

My idea of feminism is pretty much what Ruth said...Those crazy radical extremists from the 1920's and 1930's are who got us the right to vote[;)]



spitzu -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 11:43:13 PM)

We've been married for 8 years, and we do what works for our household and what we feel is right. How a household is run is pretty much up to each couple. [;)]



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 11:49:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefWannahakaloogie

God made the man to lead. spiritually, financially, etc. the man is supposed to be the supporter of the family. God made the man to lead the house, the woman to manage it.

its not like the man's role as the leader degrades the woman or makes her less. man and woman were made to depend on eachother, its just that simple.


I felt the same way before I got married, but experiencing real life with a partner can be eye opening in a lot of ways. You have to learn, as a couple, to play off of each others strengths and weaknesses. There is no "one size fits all" for marriage.



spitzu -> RE: Feminist (9/6/2008 11:52:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
I felt the same way before I got married, but experiencing real life with a partner can be eye opening in a lot of ways. You have to learn, as a couple, to play off of each others strengths and weaknesses. There is no "one size fits all" for marriage.


Word. [sm=icon_smile_approve.gif]



linaire -> RE: Feminist (9/7/2008 7:01:53 AM)

I think the distinction between "feminist" and "extreme feminist" is a helpful one. Ruth's excellent definition of feminism (seriously, it's like you read my mind [:D], give or take a couple of points) is something I'd identify with. I think we owe so much to the 'feminists' of the early twentieth century - I love that I have the vote, I love that I got to go to university, and I love my job (I teach). I also love that I can contribute to my society and help, and that as a single woman I have a voice. I'm unmarried at 27, so I have no husband to guide/support/partner me (yet...I'm hoping [8D]), and I'm way too old to be relying on my parents (IMO)...I love that through women's rights I can have a life that I love.

That said...extreme feminism scares me, and I think it's creating huge problems for both genders in the way we interact and deal with each other. Several of my acquaintance are man-hating feminists, and I know several men who are cowed and weak and unable to be the men they could be because of the women they are playing off. In both genders there's naturally a lot of difference between individuals (my best friends are a tomboy, and academic bookworm, and the girliest of girlies, for example), but I think extreme feminism has created a lot of issues between the sexes as groups.



Ps103 -> RE: Feminist (9/7/2008 12:50:03 PM)

MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE

The OP asked a simple question: What is your definition of 'feminist?'"

Please take the discussion of women's roles in the hom to the ONE-STOP THREAD and confine your posts in this thread to definitions.

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peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Feminist (9/7/2008 1:53:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: linaire

I think the distinction between "feminist" and "extreme feminist" is a helpful one. Ruth's excellent definition of feminism (seriously, it's like you read my mind [:D], give or take a couple of points) is something I'd identify with. I think we owe so much to the 'feminists' of the early twentieth century - I love that I have the vote, I love that I got to go to university, and I love my job (I teach). I also love that I can contribute to my society and help, and that as a single woman I have a voice. I'm unmarried at 27, so I have no husband to guide/support/partner me (yet...I'm hoping [8D]), and I'm way too old to be relying on my parents (IMO)...I love that through women's rights I can have a life that I love.

That said...extreme feminism scares me, and I think it's creating huge problems for both genders in the way we interact and deal with each other. Several of my acquaintance are man-hating feminists, and I know several men who are cowed and weak and unable to be the men they could be because of the women they are playing off. In both genders there's naturally a lot of difference between individuals (my best friends are a tomboy, and academic bookworm, and the girliest of girlies, for example), but I think extreme feminism has created a lot of issues between the sexes as groups.

I was waiting til there was someone I could quote and say "I agree with ___"........
so I agree with Claire....in every thing she said except the point of not being married, because I am. My hubby's personality is very passive and he can be easily overpowered....most of the time because he wants to be....so I try to work hard not to do that too much to him and give him a chance to make decisions and talk things out (even though seriously he would have no problem if he didn't make them or wasn't in the discussion.....his personality makes for a good soldier, cause he honestly just follows blindly orders given very easily). I have seen some women though that were extremist push over him, and it's very different in the way he reacts....he doesn't like it and you can tell. It is demoralizing to him and his personality definitely shows that when he is around women like that....it's interesting. Anyway, I too would categorize someone like that as an "extremist"...I do not like their stance, I think they not only demoralize men but also make a bad name for women too.....luckily there are far more of us in the "middle" and we kind of balance them out.



Memaw. -> RE: Feminist (9/7/2008 2:37:13 PM)

Thank you for all your replies.

Growing up, Gloria Steinem was real popular and that became my notion of what a feminist was.

I am glad to see that the word is not as hateful as it used to be, that there is a balance between the "doormat wife" and the "overbearing wife".



Consecrated2God -> RE: Feminist (9/7/2008 2:50:58 PM)

When I think of a feminist, I think of the mom in "Ice Princess". She looked down on ice skating because of th e "twinky little outfits" and was upset when her daughter wanted to skate, accusing her of just wanting to be glamorous and feel beautiful. She came around in the end, but I think most feminsts have an aversion to pink and ruffles. [:)]

I also think most feminists are pro-choice.



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