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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/10/2008 5:10:27 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
My mom said the same thing. She also said that if the government didn't bail out F and F, this country would go into a depression greater than the Great Depression.
I don't see how that could be, but...... Because Freddie and Fannie take loans the banks make and give the banks more money in return to keep making loans. That's a very simplistic way of putting it but it is basically what they do. If banks had to keep and service the loans they make, there would be WAAAAY less money for home purchases and WAAAY less people would be able to get loans for homes. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it would probably wipe out a chance at home ownerhsip for anyone at middle class or below. It would bring the home purchase market to almost a complete standstill. And since home ownership drives a lot of retail markets, that would trickle down and we'd be in a real mess worse than the one we've got.
Yup, I'd like to see a little more enthusiastic enforcement of laws regarding fraud - maybe make it a little less difficult to prove as concerns mortgage brokers - licensure of mortgage brokers, and some additional regulations on what types of loans can be offered and HOW they can be advertised. I'm a Realtor and I understand more than a lot of people and I STILL find some of the products being offered extremely complicated to understand.
But it would also ensure that only those with the financial resources would be able to purchase a house; it would reduce the overall cost of housing since more banks would be reluctant to lend money to uncredit worthy folks and would thereby reduce the demand on the housing market.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/10/2008 5:14:32 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
The problem wasn't the complexity of the loans, rather the ability of the borrower to understand them.
While the loan docs may have been confusing that doesn't excuse people from not understanding what they are getting into. If they don't understand the dos then hire a lawyer to explain it to you or get a buyers agent to help out. The fact that they did not understand the dos is nothing more than an excuse and certainly not a good enough reason to bail them or the mortgage company out
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/10/2008 8:42:40 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Yup, I'd like to see a little more enthusiastic enforcement of laws regarding fraud - maybe make it a little less difficult to prove as concerns mortgage brokers - licensure of mortgage brokers, and some additional regulations on what types of loans can be offered and HOW they can be advertised. I'm a Realtor and I understand more than a lot of people and I STILL find some of the products being offered extremely complicated to understand.
That is a tough sell when talking on a forum with so many free market conservatives. ; )
Actually, it seems like the resistance would come from the other side. The problem wasn't the complexity of the loans, rather the ability of the borrower to understand them. Basically, what it boiled down to, was many people just weren't smart enough to understand the loan structure.
So it's the same side of the coin. People are complaining that lenders sold these loans to low-income people and most of them were minorities. So they view it as racially motiviated predatory lending. You put in the regulations that they have to understand the loan and you drastically limit their options. The lender says the borrower isn't "smart" enough for these\that loan, and the liberals scream that the lender is calling minorities stupid.
So there was no fraud? Tell the FBI that about IndyMac Bank
"In all, the FBI is now investigating 21 companies tied to the subprime mortgage crisis, up from 19 last month. Authorities are looking into at least 1,400 mortgage fraud cases nationwide, and more than 400 real estate industry players have been indicted since March."
< Message edited by mapachito13 -- 9/10/2008 8:49:35 PM >
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/10/2008 9:48:29 PM
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relady
Posts: 1287
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
So there was no fraud? Tell the FBI that about IndyMac Bank
"In all, the FBI is now investigating 21 companies tied to the subprime mortgage crisis, up from 19 last month. Authorities are looking into at least 1,400 mortgage fraud cases nationwide, and more than 400 real estate industry players have been indicted since March."
Oh no, there was PLENTY of fraud going on. But what internal regulations they did have weren't being watched as closely as now. I hope to see many more "players" caught in the web they've woven. I was just giving a very very simple explanation of the internal mechanisms in place, that obviously were not being monitored closely enough for some time, LOL.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/10/2008 9:52:19 PM
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relady
Posts: 1287
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
But it would also ensure that only those with the financial resources would be able to purchase a house; Actually, even many people with financial resources would most likely not be able to buy. Because if banks had to keep and service all their loans they would at some point simply not be able to lend anymore and funds for everyone would dry up, the entire market would dry up along with all the related retail markets. Very, very few people would ever be able to own homes. It would absolutely collapse our economy if that were to happen.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 9:38:00 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 461
Joined: 5/10/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
So there was no fraud? Tell the FBI that about IndyMac Bank
"In all, the FBI is now investigating 21 companies tied to the subprime mortgage crisis, up from 19 last month. Authorities are looking into at least 1,400 mortgage fraud cases nationwide, and more than 400 real estate industry players have been indicted since March."
Oh no, there was PLENTY of fraud going on. But what internal regulations they did have weren't being watched as closely as now. I hope to see many more "players" caught in the web they've woven. I was just giving a very very simple explanation of the internal mechanisms in place, that obviously were not being monitored closely enough for some time, LOL.
All the numbers I've seen , put the fraud and predatory loans at under 10% of the loans made (I believe between 2002-2007).
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 9:55:04 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/30/2007
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The tax refunds earlier this summer- economic stimulus checks.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 10:23:15 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 461
Joined: 5/10/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
The tax refunds earlier this summer- economic stimulus checks.
Oh, the stimulus checks. The "tune-up" checks, since Obama is offering more checks.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 11:23:28 AM
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radiorobert
Posts: 63
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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Why is the federal government obligated to do ANYTHING???
It shouldn't be meddling in the financial affairs of the private decisions of so many Americans. To think that Bush should have done something sooner is to basically admit we are obligated to have a nanny state!
We should have a worldwide depression, then maybe people would learn to stop making stupid financial decisions.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 1:09:08 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
The tax refunds earlier this summer- economic stimulus checks.
Oh, the stimulus checks. The "tune-up" checks, since Obama is offering more checks.
Didn't take you very long, I see, to play the 'change the subject' card.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 2:24:27 PM
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NoShow
Posts: 461
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
The tax refunds earlier this summer- economic stimulus checks.
Oh, the stimulus checks. The "tune-up" checks, since Obama is offering more checks.
Didn't take you very long, I see, to play the 'change the subject' card.
Actually, I played my "Isn't It Obvious" card, pointing out that both Parties "find" money the same place\way. I'm saving my "Change the Subject" card for later.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 4:49:55 PM
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relady
Posts: 1287
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
All the numbers I've seen , put the fraud and predatory loans at under 10% of the loans made (I believe between 2002-2007). I think the final shake out on fraud, lender to lender, hasn't happened yet. That's where a whole LOT of fraud took place. It will take a while to ferret a lot of that out, especially since a lot of the offending lenders are now out of business. But there are still some out there, doing business as usual.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 4:51:45 PM
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relady
Posts: 1287
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
We should have a worldwide depression, then maybe people would learn to stop making stupid financial decisions. I think anyone who would seriously recommend this needs to go back and study the Great Depression a little more closely. I have absolutely no desire to live that way and would certainly see my government allowing that to happen as a H U G E regression. None of us should WANT to see that happen.
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/11/2008 9:30:53 PM
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margieb711
Posts: 112
Joined: 7/11/2008
From: Eagan MN
Status: offline
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Sadly, this mortgage mess keeps the roof over my head and food in my belly. The company I work for is an outsource business who handles foreclosures & bankruptcies for 9 of the top ten major mortgage companies in the industry.
My job is not very nice, but I'll always remember: Matthew was a tax collector before he decided followed Jesus...
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/13/2008 12:22:02 AM
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relady
Posts: 1287
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
The company I work for is an outsource business who handles foreclosures & bankruptcies for 9 of the top ten major mortgage companies in the industry. Interesting. What exactly does your company do for the mortgage companies?
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RE: Freddie and Fannie - 9/13/2008 9:09:37 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2171
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I think anyone who would seriously recommend this needs to go back and study the Great Depression a little more closely. I have absolutely no desire to live that way and would certainly see my government allowing that to happen as a H U G E regression. None of us should WANT to see that happen.
Yes but it would be consistent the total, unadulterated with government, free market type of economy that people here seem to want. Ironically when one discusses any kind of government oversight we listen to "it's a free market!" yet when the "free market" utterly fails it's time for the government to fix it. Maybe if the government and someone's tax dollars are going to fix this stuff up perhaps it needs oversight?
Naw, keep paying out the big CEO salaries and then give them real huge bonus' for the government saving their skins by soaking the country for their follies.
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