Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (Full Version)

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RefinersMetal -> Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 5:50:56 PM)

Do you believe the Old Testament? Do you believe it literally?

I was watching Joe Rogan talk about Noah's Ark and it has been really tempting me to doubt
some of the OT events. Thanks for your thoughts.



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 5:56:36 PM)

I believe it, but I am not a complete literalist!



armydude -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 5:57:59 PM)

What's not to believe literally?



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 5:58:56 PM)

Some things aren't meant to be taken word for word. God uses symbolism in some parts.



armydude -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:00:41 PM)

Examples please?



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:03:43 PM)

When God is talking about a country being shamed and lifting her skirt and others seeing it...He doesn't mean that literally!



armydude -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:09:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus

When God is talking about a country being shamed and lifting her skirt and others seeing it...He doesn't mean that literally!
But this is not what the OP is talking about I think. I could be wrong, but when people talking about the Old Testament being taken literally, most often they're talking about the miracles in the Old Testament. If I'm wrong, I apologize.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:12:18 PM)

Yes, I believe that the miraculous events of the Old Testament (and the New Testament) happened, period.



HisCovenant -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:21:14 PM)

I believe it literally, aside from the obvious symbolism to which PopsiLufsJesus was referring. For example, I believe the seas actually parted and the Israelites walked through on dry land. I believe the walls of Jerico fell when the trumpets blew. I believe Balaam spoke aloud. I believe there were literally four in the fiery furnace... and so on and so forth all the way through the New Testament. [;)]

If these things didn't happen, then our religion is false and we are wasting our time. We may can get a few moral ideas from the Bible in that case, but why would they be better than any other idea? Nope... IMO, it's either real or we are wasting out time as Christians.



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:29:14 PM)

yea, I was just referring to symbolism. And ta, I wanted to let you know that I am a female :)


1200!!!!!!!!!!



delete123 -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:33:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RefinersMetal

Do you believe the Old Testament? Do you believe it literally?
Thanks for your thoughts.



Ok this is part of what I believe: The bible is not in Chronicalogical order, and actually the book of Job is older than Genesis and the 4 books that pass that.
I believe it literally except when it is noted by the author that gives his passages in literature format, then you know that it is symbolic. Each author wrote the book in their own style when it was given to them by the Holy Spirit.
There are examples, like in the book of Daniel chapter 1-6 is the history of the times, chapters 7-12 is the actual prophecy that Daniel saw. (This is why it looks repetious)
So when you read it, you need to disern the symbolism. Another example is when in the book of Daniel they referred to the little horn with the eye, this is symbolic of the antichrist.
Also to see the "whole" picture this is where II timothy 2:15 comes in, you also have to reference Matthew chapters 24 and 25, Revelation 13, Lamentations and the book of Jeremiah I believe chapt 29.
Ok I have to go right now, thanx
CRH



Wild-Rose -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:33:53 PM)

quote:

I believe Balaam spoke aloud.


Is this just a typo? You meant to say Balaam's donkey. Which of course makes the story much more interesting!



LCannon -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:36:58 PM)

The history contained in Noah's ark is part tradition, legend and allegory. So with the creation. Apparently the details weren't that important to their belief in Jehovah. The core issue was belief, trust and allegiance not skepticism because Jehovah is what he claims to be as Jesus' assertion was. Belief it(in Jehovah)or not(reject and die in one's arrogance). There's no debate and to split hairs in our limited logic misses the His point.

Job 38:1-"Then Jehovah answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said... 12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days began, And caused the dayspring to know its place; 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it? 14 It is changed as clay under the seal; And all things stand forth as a garment: 15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, And the high arm is broken. 16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? Or hast thou walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have the gates of death been revealed unto thee? Or hast thou seen the gates of the shadow of death? 18 Hast thou comprehended the earth in its breadth? Declare, if thou knowest it all."



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 6:39:05 PM)

sometimes posts on here just amaze me



HisCovenant -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 7:52:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild-Rose

quote:

I believe Balaam spoke aloud.


Is this just a typo? You meant to say Balaam's donkey. Which of course makes the story much more interesting!

Yes... but I do believe Balaam spoke aloud, too!! [sm=blush.gif]



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 9:13:45 PM)

I believe it.



Liveloved -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 9:27:34 PM)

Balaam's donkey spoke and I've seen the same. Yes, God is a God of miracles.[:)]



AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 9:41:52 PM)

Yes I believe it literally. To say that the old testament isn't inerrant is to make the disciples, apostles, and Jesus liars. When they referred to the scriptures they were referring to the old testament. If its not inerrant then what good is it? And if its not why do they quote and refer to so often? The whole old testament is pointing toward Christ, and all the prophecies were fulfilled in Christ. To believe they are not literal is to believe that Jesus Christ and the New Testament isn't literal.


By the way Jesus here is referring the old testament, and jot or tittle is the smallest mark in the language so Jesus thought all of the old testament down the smallest mark to be inspired and important.

Matthew 5:17-19
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 9:44:45 PM)

The Jericho story has already been proven through archeology.



RefinersMetal -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 10:23:38 PM)

To doubt is to spend time in the enemy's territory, thanks for the replies



deermousie -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 11:07:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delete123
Ok this is part of what I believe: The bible is not in Chronicalogical order, and actually the book of Job is older than Genesis and the 4 books that pass that.
I believe it literally except when it is noted by the author that gives his passages in literature format, then you know that it is symbolic. Each author wrote the book in their own style when it was given to them by the Holy Spirit.


Scholarly hermeneutics agrees with Delete. It's literal unless it's obviously a metaphor/metonymy/figure of speech or prophecy (and those usually are hard to understand until they happen, and then it's clear what it meant). So if you aren't sure how to understand something, it's safer to assume it's literal.



whisperingwaters -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/12/2008 11:18:19 PM)

I believe it is literal.



KaseyTom -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/13/2008 12:03:56 AM)

I believe the universe emerged from a singularity around 12 billion years ago, and that the earth was formed from cosmic debris around 4 billion years ago.

I believe the life emerged spontaneously 3 billion years ago and that dinosaurs roamed the earths between 200 and 80 million years ago.

I believe that hominids came into being around 1 million years ago and Homo Sapiens have been around for about 100,000 years.

Unless there is a way of fitting all this and more into a literal interpretation of the OT, I guess my answer is no, I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the OT.



OneJohn410 -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/13/2008 12:41:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaseyTom

I believe the universe emerged from a singularity around 12 billion years ago, and that the earth was formed from cosmic debris around 4 billion years ago.

I believe the life emerged spontaneously 3 billion years ago and that dinosaurs roamed the earths between 200 and 80 million years ago.

I believe that hominids came into being around 1 million years ago and Homo Sapiens have been around for about 100,000 years.

Unless there is a way of fitting all this and more into a literal interpretation of the OT, I guess my answer is no, I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the OT.

Let's see...
singularity, call that God's voice
earth formed from cosmic debris, I don't remember reading anything about God recycling... he spoke the earth into being as well, everything in fact.
spontaneous life emerged, not by chance, not all at once
dinosaurs roamed the earthS, there was just one earth

That would be a real feat to get all this in there. The rise and fall of the dinosaurs, the dissappearance of any earths but the one we are on now, what you think was the source of the cosmic debris that formed the earth. That's a LOT of debris you are talking about. Then you'd have to explain how there's just exactly the right composition of gasses in the atmosphere to sustain life on earth, and where those gasses came from- why, all the explosions of solid cosmic matter?

Who gets to write the final report on all of this? There's obviously a lot of thought going in to it, and a lot of disagreement, and 'new discoveries' and new ideas. Is there some agreement amongst everyone on some things, and what- some kind of vote will take place one day to share it all in a way everyone agrees on? Or is it all disagreement for the sake of disagreeing?

Thanks for your time and any reply,
OneJohn410



macramepoet -> RE: Believe the Old Testament? Literally? (9/13/2008 4:32:36 PM)

Kasey Tom....

If what you believe is true then the Bible as a whole is a lie. If life appeared some 3 billion years ago and man less than 100,000 then there were literally billions of years of death and decay before the fall of Adam. That is contrary to scripture. In the past 2 centuries a great number of scientists have developed a great number of theories that contradict what scripture has to say about creation and the generations of man and, unfortunately, multitudes of Christians have chosen to interpret the Bible by science, and not science by the Bible. We have a choice to make. We can accept what we are offered by the scientific community and try to mold our faith around it, or we can accept what the Word says, and steadfastly declare that by faith we accept what God says.

I choose the latter option.



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