Office of deacon question (Full Version)

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Peter_Gunn -> Office of deacon question (9/18/2008 10:07:13 PM)

Something's been on my mind lately. Is there a bona-fide precedent in the Bible for the office of deacon?

In Acts, there are men that are given the task of making sure the widows get their allotment. But the word diakanos (sp?) is not used there.

In Timothy and Titus, the word diakanos is used, and simply means "servant"...I can find no other nuances to modify that word...just "servant".

What I'm wondering is this...is a deacon simply a worker (servant) in the congregation? Is it to be considered an "office," or the role of each worker in the body of a local congregation?

The qualifications of a deacon differ from that of an elder in obvious ways. The commonalities between the two are qualities that really describe what any true believer in Christ should possess.

Is it possible that the passages in Timothy and Titus are telling us that any "servant" or worker in the church, since they are representative of Christ, should be held to this standard?

What say ye?



LCannon -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/19/2008 12:09:52 AM)

Certainly. 'any "servant" or worker in the church...should be held to this standard' however the office of deacon(or bishop)has the specific responsibility of overseeing the business particularly, and spiritual health generally, of the assembly of believers. Without a rudder(deacons), under sails alone(the servants)would be at the mercy of the wind. In concert with rudder the sails are trimmed to take advantage of a skillful Pilot.



Peter_Gunn -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/19/2008 7:41:54 AM)

I thought "bishop" was the same word that is used for "elder"...or at least used interchangeably. And that the "elders" are the ones responsible for the spiriutal health of the church. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Or am I being held hostage by the methodology of our current churches?



Haran -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/19/2008 3:23:39 PM)

"Elder" comes from "presbyter" (in the greek). Deacon comes from "diakonos" (in the greek) which means something along the lines of "servant". Many believe that the precedent for Deacons was set in Acts, as you mentioned. I don't remember and haven't looked closely to see if diakonos is used in the surrounding context there in Acts yet. However, the greek word "katistano" is used of the appointment of holy men to assist in the charitable work. This word means "to appoint" and from a glance at a lexicon, one of the entries is "to appoint to an office". So, I think there is at least some precedent for "deacon" being an office.

And you are correct that 1 Timothy 3:8-13 presents the "qualifications" for the office of deacon.



Lapidoth -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/19/2008 4:50:33 PM)

In our modern churches we use the term deacon,
but "board-member" is more appropriate.

Many men who are called deacons take the office
of over-seer which would be the pastors/elders job.

Servants are just that, servants.

A look at Acts 6 under a microscope shows this was
not a board member status. But the selecting of men
to meet the needs of the widows, etc. of a select group
that was coming into the common wealth of Israel.

Israel had a system for taking care of the widows, etc.
So, by extension, seven were selected to take care of
those coming in.



drmark -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/19/2008 10:52:52 PM)

quote:

A look at Acts 6 under a microscope shows this was not a board member status.
Depends on whose microscope you're using! The reason for the appointment of the Seven, their election and ordination, the description of their responsibilities and qualifications, and their level of independence in performing certain duties are all quite compatible with the nature of "church board members" in my denomination. In fact, under older traditions of my denomination, board members were labelled "trustees" and "stewards", apparently distinguishing between the material aspects of ministry (such as building/grounds and finances) and the service-oriented tasks.



rcjames -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 10:03:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

A look at Acts 6 under a microscope shows this was not a board member status.
Depends on whose microscope you're using! The reason for the appointment of the Seven, their election and ordination, the description of their responsibilities and qualifications, and their level of independence in performing certain duties are all quite compatible with the nature of "church board members" in my denomination. In fact, under older traditions of my denomination, board members were labelled "trustees" and "stewards", apparently distinguishing between the material aspects of ministry (such as building/grounds and finances) and the service-oriented tasks.


Excellent points drmark, I would only add that the reasons for deacons is to allow the spiritual leaders the time to "Continually pray and minister the Word".

So the Sp;iritual leader of a Church should not have to involve himself in the day to day operations of the Church. Call them (deacons) whatever we want to call them; their purpose to to allow the leaders to pray and minister.

Thanks
RC



Peter_Gunn -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 12:27:26 PM)

I understand the reasons for having some men set apart as elders, overseers, bishops, pastors, shepherds, etc. And I understand their role and function and see the biblical mandate for it.

HOWEVER...

My point, and question really, is this: if the word for deacon literally means "servant", aren't ALL workers in a church body to be held to the qualifications set forth in scripture?

And why do we set apart a few and call them deacons, as if they are the only workers within the church body to be held to those qualifications?



drmark -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 12:36:58 PM)

quote:

My point, and question really, is this: if the word for deacon literally means "servant", aren't ALL workers in a church body to be held to the qualifications set forth in scripture?
Acts 6:3 states that the seven (deacons) were to be men full of the Spirit and wisdom. Are you suggesting that each and every assistant nursery worker must meet these three qualifications to help in the church nursery? Fat chance!



rcjames -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 1:15:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

My point, and question really, is this: if the word for deacon literally means "servant", aren't ALL workers in a church body to be held to the qualifications set forth in scripture?
Acts 6:3 states that the seven (deacons) were to be men full of the Spirit and wisdom. Are you suggesting that each and every assistant nursery worker must meet these three qualifications to help in the church nursery? Fat chance!


Hey drmark, I do not think I have ever seen a board where all the men were full of the Spirit and wisdom.[:D]

Thanks
RC



drmark -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 1:23:49 PM)

We do have a few ladies on our current church board, Brother James. They seem full of the Spirit and wisdom to me, but maybe your guidelines do not permit women to serve. Perhaps you should preach more on sanctification, Pastor. [:)]



rcjames -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 1:34:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

We do have a few ladies on our current church board, Brother James. They seem full of the Spirit and wisdom to me, but maybe your guidelines do not permit women to serve. Perhaps you should preach more on sanctification, Pastor. [:)]


Oh I was referring to some of the Churches I have to deal with in the area of problems. I do think my board is fine, and with one really Godly woman on the board also.

Thanks
RC



Peter_Gunn -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 1:43:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

My point, and question really, is this: if the word for deacon literally means "servant", aren't ALL workers in a church body to be held to the qualifications set forth in scripture?
Acts 6:3 states that the seven (deacons) were to be men full of the Spirit and wisdom. Are you suggesting that each and every assistant nursery worker must meet these three qualifications to help in the church nursery? Fat chance!


I thought "men" in Acts 6:3 just meant "men" and was not diakanos...that's the reason for my confusion. Acts and Timothy use different and distinct terms.

And yes...I would think if it means what I think it means, we're not doing a good job of holding workers/servants to the biblical standard they're supposed to be held to. But it's a narrow way, Brother, and we're not the ones that made the rules.

But that's another discussion.



drmark -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 3:26:43 PM)

quote:

But it's a narrow way, Brother, and we're not the ones that made the rules.
Well, to interpret Acts 6:3 to apply to everyone who does any kind of "service" in the church is reading way too much "rules" into it, in my opinion.



rwe2156 -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/20/2008 7:25:44 PM)

quote:

What I'm wondering is this...is a deacon simply a worker (servant) in the congregation?
Is it to be considered an "office," or the role of each worker in the body of a local congregation?
I think a deacon is simply a servant.

There are deaconesses in the Bible.

My denomination (Baptist) attaches lifestyle qualifications listed in 1Tim.

But the office and function is not defined. Some look to Acts 6.

Does a Biblical church have elders? Mine doesn't.



Lapidoth -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/22/2008 12:39:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

I understand the reasons for having some men set apart as elders, overseers, bishops, pastors, shepherds, etc. And I understand their role and function and see the biblical mandate for it.

HOWEVER...

My point, and question really, is this: if the word for deacon literally means "servant", aren't ALL workers in a church body to be held to the qualifications set forth in scripture?

And why do we set apart a few and call them deacons, as if they are the only workers within the church body to be held to those qualifications?


I agree with the premise you are coming from.
We think we can water it down, but at the Judgment
Seat of God, I'm afraid we will see things in a completely
different light.

We are to be set-apart {holy}. That's every member of the
Body of Christ. Not just those who hold a "office."

This topic always brings out the man-made guidelines of each
of our denominations or non-denominations (if there really is
such a thing, lol.)



LBolt -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/23/2008 7:12:42 AM)

The reasons why the standards are high is because of their position in the public eye. They were to be examples for others to follow. So in a since all Christians are held to the same standard. The leaders are supposed to be a visible example of it.



DaveW -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/26/2008 1:01:27 PM)

Most of the congregations I have attended the Shamashim/Deacons were people who headed up various service ministries in the congregation. They report to the board on the functions of their various services.



rcjames -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/26/2008 3:02:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

Most of the congregations I have attended the Shamashim/Deacons were people who headed up various service ministries in the congregation. They report to the board on the functions of their various services.


And the "Bosrd" would be Elders, Bishops, pastors or what office or offices?

Thanks
RC



terryjohn -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/27/2008 3:55:14 PM)

Unfortunately, satan has done a good job of twisting words and wicked, unstable men have taken full advantage of the opportunty to lord it over one another. We find men using greek words to make it sound like they are anything other than a humble servant. Personally, if any man told me he was a deacon, I would ask him what that meant. If he said it meant servant, I would ask him to get me something to drink, if he didn't then he would be told he wasn't. So many want to be leaders of men, but few want to serve.



rcjames -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/28/2008 9:40:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: terryjohn

Unfortunately, satan has done a good job of twisting words and wicked, unstable men have taken full advantage of the opportunty to lord it over one another. We find men using greek words to make it sound like they are anything other than a humble servant. Personally, if any man told me he was a deacon, I would ask him what that meant. If he said it meant servant, I would ask him to get me something to drink, if he didn't then he would be told he wasn't. So many want to be leaders of men, but few want to serve.


Cute example, but you sorta restrict the definition of servant to being your personal handmaiden. Being a servant in the Body of Christ goes much farther than fetching someone a glass of water who might be well capable of getting it themselves.

May I suggest you read the following, which is the selection of the first "Deacons" and their reason for being and their duties;

(Act 6:1) And in those days, the disciples having multiplied, a murmuring of the Hellenists against the Hebrews occurred, because their widows were overlooked in the daily serving.

(Act 6:2) And the Twelve called near the multitude of the disciples and said, It is not pleasing to us, leaving the Word of God, to serve tables.

(Act 6:3) Therefore, brothers, look out among you seven men being witnessed to, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this duty.

(Act 6:4) But we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the Word.

I did like your response, I just don't want folks to get the wrong idea of the how and why of Deacons, Elders, and Bishops in the Church.

Thanks
RC



DaveW -> RE: Office of deacon question (9/29/2008 9:14:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

And the "Board" would be Elders, Bishops, pastors or what office or offices?
Elders/zakenim.



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