What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (Full Version)

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csl7037 -> What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 7:05:59 AM)

Dd is in 4th grade. I'm done chasing her around, parking the car and sending her back upstairs to get what she forgot after school, and writing out index cards for all her tests and then fighting and arguing with her to get her to even look at them. She doesn't care anything at all about school, dh has never cared either. I've tried to work PT in the evenings, I leave a note with two things she needs to do or review and it's NEVER done or even touched when I get home. I could be doing something with my life, though. If they don't care, why should I?

I'm thinking I'll just take the next 4 weeks (I think that's what left of this first 9-weeks) OFF. We'll see if dh cares then when he sees her report card.

I can't even talk to her right now either. I have struggled with this child almost since the day she was born. There's nothing I can do right with her, nothing I can do to get through to her. I've had four different teachers tell me to have her tested (for a variety of things) and dh wont be bothered with that either ($). I'm done losing sleep over this until someone else wants to care.



artemis -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 7:17:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
I'm thinking I'll just take the next 4 weeks (I think that's what left of this first 9-weeks) OFF. We'll see if dh cares then when he sees her report card.


Better you do this in 4th grade than in 10th.



csl7037 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 7:55:58 AM)

but we've had the same problems since kindergarten. Doing what? Nothing I'm doing is working.



garsyt -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 3:09:00 PM)

Hey dear!

I see that you've had teachers simply wanting her tested for a variety of things. Have you asked what help you can get from them, in the mean time? Is there a resource or special needs program that can assist her?

Your husband amazes me! He really doesn't care at all? WHY? What does he think is going to change if he doesn't start caring? I know money is often an issue. Trust me I know about that. But the school should be able to at least direct you to some help


quote:

Better you do this in 4th grade than in 10th.


This is true. Take the break. Tell her teacher at school that you need some help from them that you are not getting from your daughter and her father at home. Tell them that you are so tired that you are considering letting her fail. Would the threat of holding her back help? Of course you have to be ready to follow through with that threat.

At this level of 4th grade it may not be EASY but I can tell you it will be easier then waiting til she is older to get things figured out.

Personally if my child continued in this sort of behavior they would begin to lose privileges until they showed some sort of change of heart. I would crack down so hard. I would expect my child's teacher to back me up and FAIL my child if they deserve it.

Blessings,

Garsy



ladyingrace1979 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 3:12:15 PM)

I'm sorry that you have to deal with this alone. You unfortunately are going to have to take a stand with or without your husbands support.

So my question is then, is it that she can't do what she needs to do, is there some sort of learning disability involved? I say this because it seems to have started really young for it to be pure attitude. I'm wondering if there is a reason she has an I don't care attitude? Perhaps DH had the same problem in school and he never got any type of diagnosis. Teachers are not the ones to test, it needs to be a school psychologist or outside psychologist. And it can't just be can she do the school work. If a highly intelligent child has a learning disability they often learn to cover it up, either by "faking it" on their work or the "I don't care" attitude. I say all of this because my now 8th grader has a learning disability which affects her visual processing and organizational skills. She has to work twice as hard as other kids at keeping herself together. She developed an "I can't, I'm stupid attitude" until we got help for her.
I would do whatever it took to rule out a learning disability before I went any further, I would do this with or without my husband's approval.

Good luck to you,
Kim Q



karlie -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 3:19:14 PM)

quote:

Personally if my child continued in this sort of behavior they would begin to lose privileges until they showed some sort of change of heart.

I agree with that. Somewhere, there is somehting that does matter to her. Time with friends, talking on the phone, nintendo, etc. Find what that is and yank it until she begins doing what she is supposed to do. Part of them growing up is learning that responsibilities come first and that sometimes we do what we have to just for that reason...not because it's fun, or we like it, or even care, but, because it's part of life. Even if her attitude isn't on board right away(and it probably won't be), she at least needs to be forced into the correct behavior. If she has no learning disabilities and it's just lack of motivation or laziness, I'd most definitely find what motivated her.

I had to do that with our oldest at one point and I have never regretted coming down hard with that. She learned that if she doesn't do the work, she doesn't get the play. It didn't take her long at all to get on board with the program and it truly changed her entire outlook. But, there was no letting up either, or giving her chances or passes...we stuck to it like super glue!



Kerryannism -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 3:34:52 PM)

I too am sorry you need to deal with this alone. Before you make your final plan regarding stepping back, talk to her teacher or to the school counselor and bring her Father along. They really know from experience what impact this will have on her. Perhaps they have a better suggestion for you. Making them aware of your plan will assist them in understanding what your daughter is going through during this period and remind her of HER responsibilities.

I would also come down hard. I would not "take" anything away but explain that the things she enjoys doing need to be earned for now on and I would begin by letting her earn back every single thing.

She is also old enough to sit with you, your husband and the counselor and be informed of what it will mean if she has to go to an alternative school due to her failing grades.

Regarding your DH - what is he thinking? What is he doing while you are at work that is more important than helping his daughter? Whatever it is ... take it to work with you.

Have you considered seeking counseling for the both of you and/or as a family?



csl7037 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 6:03:17 PM)

Thanks for the input, everyone. This child is hot or cold. Her "Friday folder" today came home great - great grades on her tests (didn't get the ones she took today back yet, though) and no behavior marks! So we're doing special dinner (which is anything with mac 'n cheese), movie and popcorn night.

She is MORE than capable and does great when she wants to - in small spurts. She's a VERY strong willed kid and, yes, that started very early. She's also at a pretty strict school. Her Kindergarten teacher wanted me to have her tested because she was convinced she was "gifted" and would be bored at this small private school. I value the challenge of discipline as well as academics, however, and not being challenged hasn't really been a problem, I don't think. She is just like her father as well! He realized one day half way through college that if he had halfway applied himself, he wouldn't have been racking up student loans like he was. They're both extremely intelligent, I think. And I really think that, for both of them, most things really come so easily that anything that requires a little effort, they just don't want to be bothered with. Dh outgrew that way too late; neither of us want that for her.

He balks at the $800 for this battery of tests. He also resists having her labeled in any way. And I totally agree! But I'm also at wits end. I emailed the school's new resource officer this morning (she used to be a teacher so I've known her a while). We talked a couple of times today. Dd's teacher had actually already asked her to come observe dd and she's got that on her calendar for next week.

I also think me being proactive makes a big difference. I question myself though because I know a lot of what I do to keep her on track (reading ahead and making a study sheet or flash cards for her history test coming up) is stuff she should be doing. Plus it's a lot of extra work that I can't always keep up with. I guess if I stay more organized and try to be one step ahead with what she has coming up, we can cope better. I also think a part of the success I have with that approach is that she enjoys the attention from me. But is that really helping her? And when I get wrapped up in working so hard with her, ds suffers. I'm torn and guilt-ridden with this.

I was thinking today that if I keep praying about this and working through it, maybe I'll have some big breakthrough and I'll be able to write a book or something and get rich! [;)]



Sadey -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 6:44:18 PM)

Since when you are at work your husband won't make her do her work, what if you told him you were going to quit your job and stay home with her to see that she does her work? Could you work part time in the day?

Don't give up. Theres lots of help out there, sometimes its just finding it.



manda59 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/19/2008 7:14:48 PM)

4th grade - that's, what, age 9? I am *amazed* that children of that age should have to endure being "graded" on their subjects/behaviour and have lots of homework etc. It's certainly not like that here in the UK.

In the UK, children are tested on their English, Maths and Science at 10, before they go up to high school, but that is all (and just the once - it's a National Test). Grading of work and behaviour only starts at high school level.

I personally don't understand all that pressure being put on children, I really don't.

I know that's not much help, but just felt I had to say something.



coolfamily6 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/23/2008 1:47:00 PM)

CSL, my daughter who has never been this way has started this year just flaking out in a couple of subjects. This weekend she bought a book that she has been waiting 6 months for. Yesterday, I found out she has a science test today which she did not study for; she has gotten D's on all of her science quizzes. (Tests/quizzes are 50% of the grade) I took the book. She asked how long she would be without the book, I told her until I saw that she had a passing grade on the test. This is hard but she is taking 3 high school credit classes, she cannot drop the ball because she wants to read a book!

Stick to your plan. I agree that it will only be worse if you continue to hold her hand, she is old enough to take some responsibility for her school work. Does she repond to charts and rewards? Maybe you could make a chart for her and check off when she does something, then reward her for it at the end of a week or two.



csl7037 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/23/2008 8:48:21 PM)

Have you ever been so angry you were afraid to be in the same room with your own child?

I just spent the last FIVE hours trying to get her to study for two quizzes tomorrow. She has done nothing but play around. She doesn't know the history and hasn't even finished the math review sheet.

Dh is going out of town tomorrow for two days; she's completely ruined everyone's evening and I am just done dealing with her.



artemis -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/23/2008 10:19:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garsyt

Take the break. Tell her teacher at school that you need some help from them that you are not getting from your daughter and her father at home. Tell them that you are so tired that you are considering letting her fail. Would the threat of holding her back help? Of course you have to be ready to follow through with that threat.


I just wanted to repeat this. It is a huge pain for a teacher to fail a student (documentation, paperwork, parents who threaten to sue [8|]) that many, many teachers will bump failing students up to a 69.5 just to avoid the hassle. Let the teacher know that you back her and if your daughter deserves to fail, she will.

Failing one six-weeks in 4th grade won't ruin her life, but it might knock some sense into her (and your husband [;)]). It's her grade, not yours. You shouldn't be working harder for it than she is.



garsyt -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/23/2008 11:09:43 PM)

What would be the worst thing that could happen if she failed those tests?

What is the worst possible outcome of letting her learn this lesson the hard way?

Would having to repeat 4th grade be all that bad if she learns a lesson?

Talk to her teachers and tell them that if she deserves to fail that you will back them up.

Tough love. Tough love.

Hang it there!

Blessings,

Garsy



Jenny-Fair -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/23/2008 11:18:25 PM)

I could be wrong, but it seems to me you are taking your frustration and anger at your husband out on your child.

Yeah, she's being a kid, but that's normal for kids. You need to separate the issues, and quit trying to get blood from a turnip (help from your DH) since it's obviously not going to happen and it only makes you angrier to keep trying.



csl7037 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/24/2008 6:28:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garsyt
Would having to repeat 4th grade be all that bad if she learns a lesson?


I doubt there's a real danger of this happening. But if it did it would cost us several thousands of dollars, yea, wouldn't be good at all.



iluvatar -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/24/2008 7:11:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

Have you ever been so angry you were afraid to be in the same room with your own child?

I just spent the last FIVE hours trying to get her to study for two quizzes tomorrow. She has done nothing but play around. She doesn't know the history and hasn't even finished the math review sheet.

Dh is going out of town tomorrow for two days; she's completely ruined everyone's evening and I am just done dealing with her.


If your daughter, by not doing her homework, has the power to keep you running around for five hours and "ruin everyone's evening" then I'd say there's something wrong with the way you're approaching this. I don't know how exactly this battle will be won, but it won't be by fighting and dragging out little skirmishes like this. Nor will it be by doting on her constantly, making sure she's done every little thing she's supposed to.

You and your daughter sound a bit like me and my dad when I was in school. I was more than capable of the work, barely had to try to get A's, yet wouldn't do the work unless I was forced. The only reason I did it was because my father was very strict. I've had many of the same evenings you just described. Yeah, I got the grades, but I didn't learn much about the material. I also didn't learn how to manage my tasks and responsibilities very well either.

-Dan.



garsyt -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/24/2008 9:23:05 AM)

Could she be doing this just so you get frustrated and irritated?

Getting a reaction from you might just be her goal. Maybe she's playing a game with you over all this and from the sounds of things, she's winning.

What are some privileges she has? Special possessions? Opportunities? I'd start taking away these things until she can shape up and get the work done.

Could it also be that she really does have a learning disability of some sort and she just doesn't know how to express what's going on inside her head and body? In that case then maybe allowing her to fail this term might encourage dh to put out the funds to help figure this all out.

Blessings,

Garsy



Sadey -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/24/2008 10:32:55 AM)

This won't ever stop until you can get a fresh approach to the problem. Trust me the next 8 years will be torture if you don't do something now.

This is not about winning, its about having some peace in your home, letting your daugter grow up to be a responsible human being. Please get some professional help for all of you.



myka -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/24/2008 11:34:58 AM)

quote:

I also think me being proactive makes a big difference. I question myself though because I know a lot of what I do to keep her on track (reading ahead and making a study sheet or flash cards for her history test coming up) is stuff she should be doing. Plus it's a lot of extra work that I can't always keep up with. I guess if I stay more organized and try to be one step ahead with what she has coming up, we can cope better. I also think a part of the success I have with that approach is that she enjoys the attention from me. But is that really helping her? And when I get wrapped up in working so hard with her, ds suffers. I'm torn and guilt-ridden with this.


Is she getting attention when she doesn't do her responsibilities at school? I think the goal should be for her to assume those for herself.

You've been doing this for 5 years and it isn't helping? Maybe you need to change methods...

For a small percentage of children, there is truly nothing that you can do. With my ds, we truly tried everything to motivate him, and nothing worked. He is now in high school and is taking very challenging classes and self-motivated and doing really well. But most children are not like that.



mapachito13 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/28/2008 3:59:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

Thanks for the input, everyone. This child is hot or cold. Her "Friday folder" today came home great - great grades on her tests (didn't get the ones she took today back yet, though) and no behavior marks! So we're doing special dinner (which is anything with mac 'n cheese), movie and popcorn night.

She is MORE than capable and does great when she wants to - in small spurts. She's a VERY strong willed kid and, yes, that started very early. She's also at a pretty strict school. Her Kindergarten teacher wanted me to have her tested because she was convinced she was "gifted" and would be bored at this small private school. I value the challenge of discipline as well as academics, however, and not being challenged hasn't really been a problem, I don't think. She is just like her father as well! He realized one day half way through college that if he had halfway applied himself, he wouldn't have been racking up student loans like he was. They're both extremely intelligent, I think. And I really think that, for both of them, most things really come so easily that anything that requires a little effort, they just don't want to be bothered with. Dh outgrew that way too late; neither of us want that for her.

He balks at the $800 for this battery of tests. He also resists having her labeled in any way. And I totally agree! But I'm also at wits end. I emailed the school's new resource officer this morning (she used to be a teacher so I've known her a while). We talked a couple of times today. Dd's teacher had actually already asked her to come observe dd and she's got that on her calendar for next week.

I also think me being proactive makes a big difference. I question myself though because I know a lot of what I do to keep her on track (reading ahead and making a study sheet or flash cards for her history test coming up) is stuff she should be doing. Plus it's a lot of extra work that I can't always keep up with. I guess if I stay more organized and try to be one step ahead with what she has coming up, we can cope better. I also think a part of the success I have with that approach is that she enjoys the attention from me. But is that really helping her? And when I get wrapped up in working so hard with her, ds suffers. I'm torn and guilt-ridden with this.

I was thinking today that if I keep praying about this and working through it, maybe I'll have some big breakthrough and I'll be able to write a book or something and get rich! [;)]


She sounds like she doesn't see the benefits of applying herself. It sounds like motivation is more of a problem than ability.

If her dad is being a bad example of a pro-active, work first - play later ethic then its going to be an uphill struggle. I think dad needs a reality check where his daughter's behavior will get her and how important it is for him to get with the program. Since he's so money conscious, it amazes me that he's willing to waste money by sending her to a private school and then not demand her best. It's like buying a racehorse and not wanting it to win any races.

Also ask the teacher if she is familiar with differentiated instruction. If the teacher just uses old style methods, they are not reaching all of their students since DI is used to reach students that need to be taught by different methods. We all have different ways in which we learn the best.



JuliaHop -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/28/2008 9:19:49 AM)

quote:

I question myself though because I know a lot of what I do to keep her on track (reading ahead and making a study sheet or flash cards for her history test coming up) is stuff she should be doing.


I was re-reading your posts and I wonder about the above comment...

I've had three children in 4th grade. They've never been required by their teachers to read ahead, make study sheets, or prepare flash cards for studying. Is this something her teacher requires, or is this something you do in addition to the work the teacher has already had them do in class? How would a 4th grader know what to prepare flash cards on?

From memory, when my children prepared for tests they studied the review sheets, study notes, etc...that were done in class and as homework as well as reviewing the book chapter. The teachers would review in class and remind them of what areas to study that evening. I've never had to prepare notes in addition to what the teacher had them prepare.

Are you overstressing (I am the queen of stress [:)] ) and pushing her to do more studying than is necessary?



JuliaHop -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/28/2008 9:34:49 AM)

Oh, and so you don't feel alone...I still have to remind my 7th grader to check his books and he is forever having to run back in the building to get something he forgot. His siblings were the same way. It must be pretty common because our school has begun to use a computer system where we can check to see what has been assigned and some of the teachers even put extra study sheets on line.



csl7037 -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/28/2008 11:23:45 AM)

So what worries me, going forward, is that each year the teachers really expect a higher level of responsiblity from the kids. Fifth grades scares me from what I've heard! If/when the teachers stop communicating with ME and expect dd to know what's going on, I'm in HUGE trouble. I'd still have the teachers pinning notes to dd's clothes if they weren't able to email me!



JuliaHop -> RE: What do you do with a kid that just dosn't care? (9/28/2008 3:10:02 PM)

quote:

If/when the teachers stop communicating with ME and expect dd to know what's going on, I'm in HUGE trouble.


Why would you be in HUGE trouble? The teachers should slowly give the children responsibility when they are at an age appropriate level to accept that responsibility.

My ds's was in his Christian elementary school for 5th and 6th grade. Each week we had an assignment sheet that came home in his folder. This gave me enough of an idea to know what type of work was expected from my ds and I could watch to be sure that he was preparing for the tests, quizzes, projects, etc... His project information was also sent home in the folders. Does your school send this information home to the parents?

Now that he is in Jr. High, he is given a weekly (very informative) newsletter with schedules and assignments. We also have an online page from each teacher. He still needs to be responsible for changes in assignments and exact teacher expectations, but I have a basic idea of what is due. When I pick him up from school I pull forward in line and review each day with him to be sure that he has the opportunity to remember anything that he has forgotten. This drives him nuts, but, there are times that it has been a "lifesaver" for him.

At this point, I feel that it is still within my parental responsibility to try and be sure that he meets the teachers expectations by insuring that he has the materials that he needs before we leave that building, but, I also know that if he does not that ultimately it is his responsibility.

I really think that other parents and students like to talk about how "hard" their child's teacher was. We have had the hard teachers...and usually everything that we feared had been great exaggerations on the part of others.



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