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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 3:23:25 PM
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tracydolls
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Poor people that got bad loans do not have access to the Billions of dollars involved here.
It is the greed of Wall Street that got us here.
No regualtion or oversight.
Everyone was just trying to get theirs.
I heard today a guy say in the same sentence, yes, bailout but don't cap CEO salaries, it's a free market.
Well if it is free, let it be free to fall.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 6:33:31 PM
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tinydancer2
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The finantial crises made 2 victims in Europe: the British Bradford&Bingley and the Fortis from Belgium..
BBC
Lets wait and see the global consequences later on..
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 7:12:51 PM
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eaglelady11
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whomever said give the money back to taxpayers, impose a penalty on the millionaire CEO's of the institutions who caused this and let the chips fall, I totally agree.
there is a verse in Proverbs, and I am sorry I don't know exactly where, but it says, that sometimes it takes a painful experience to make us change our ways.
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 8:12:10 PM
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tinydancer2
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People: If anyone here is really angry about the bailout there is a petition going on, I find out while watching C-SPAN:
Petition nobailout
A gentleman from Freedomworks was at C-SPAN talking and answering questions about the bailout etc:here
Another thing he was talking about was the secrecy of the process and that earmarks $$$ are inside the package. Why it was done at close doors not even C-SPAN allowed in the room? 
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 9:40:25 PM
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Melodyes_Song
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Here is the link to the 110 page bailout bill
bailout bill
, granted i am not an economist, just a regular working mom, who just finished losing her home not because of anything crazy, like a subprime mortgage but because we had to choose food and gas (literally) or our mortgage, and thankfully we are fine and i still have what is considered where we a live a good job, however we did learn valuable lessons in what has occured...
after reading this bill I do not see how it is going to help distressed homeowners what i do see is it will create more government jobs...I would like to hear what others think of this bill and maybe explain how it is going to benefit regular folks (maybe GroupW could tell me) i have learned tons by reading your posts.
i do not believe this bailout is a good idea, but then again like i said i am not an economist, but it seems that the lunatics are giving themselves the key to the mental hospital.
_____________________________
Mel
http://www.avoiceformoms.blogspot.com/
A Conservative Voice for Moms
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 10:13:23 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
We can get a VA loan but the lender at Bank of America said it was a ton of red tape and took a lot of time.
It's not all that bad.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 10:18:12 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
People: If anyone here is really angry about the bailout there is a petition going on, I find out while watching C-SPAN:
Petition nobailout
A gentleman from Freedomworks was at C-SPAN talking and answering questions about the bailout etc:here
Another thing he was talking about was the secrecy of the process and that earmarks $$$ are inside the package. Why it was done at close doors not even C-SPAN allowed in the room?
I've read the draft - rumors of "earmarks" are overblown. There are none that I could find, and I read the thing start to finish.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/28/2008 10:22:39 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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I've explained this in other threads. There are actually provisions in the plan to help the homeowners, which is a good long term solution to the problem. The Treasury is actually obligated as part of TARP to create and actually implement programs to facilitate refinances and modifications in lieu of foreclosure.
The snake closes to the foot right now though is the health of the financial system. If the financial system locks up like it did briefly last week, then we're all in trouble.
It's like what would happen if all our highways suddenly fell apart. Our economic system relies on tranportation. We could subsidize people for all the damage that poor road construction is doing to their cars, which would be fair but that doesn't get the economic system back up and running. What is needed is new roads, so the money needs to get sent to the people who can do something about it.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 2:56:10 AM
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tracydolls
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There was a story on the front page of the Minneapolis paper today.
Man was it sad.
A couple that is married and mentally challenged were taken of advantage of. Totally. Now they have to get out of their house.
How can we fix that? I'd rather that couple get help than the banks.
I don't like a company that is so big, it cannot fail.
In theory I'm with the house republicans, from what I have heard.
Let the private sector do this.
Henry Paulson should step down. So should Bernanke.
The innocent people on Wall Street and Main Street will be hurt.
But will there be alot of firings without alot of money being paid to them that deserve this???
I hope so.
I jsut don't think a bailout will fix the greed, this blows over, we will go right back to getting the money no matter what.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 9:49:46 AM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1181
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GW,
When you come around tell m what is happening in the international markets...Brazil's Bovespa is intense going down ..dolar is almost R$ 2,00..they are saying there that the bailout package seems not sufficient to generate market safety/security..Asia also closet down..it seems there is pessimism and doubts in the market... Europe is down also..
Thanks again, glad you are back also.. 
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 10:11:11 AM
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GroupW
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Fortis (Belgian bank), Bradford & Bingsley (a UK lender), Hypo Real Estate Holding AG, and a couple of other international banks are needing bailouts now as well. Seems to have the whole world in a tizzy.
Tracydolls - think of it this way. Let's assume all our interstate highways suddenly crumbled into pieces due to faulty construction. We depend on those highways to move goods across the US, so it's part of our economic infrastructure.
Now, we'd have a choice. A lot of people are going to be harmed by having to drive over bad roads. Tires will be ruined, all the fiddly bits in the suspension of peoples cars will need to be replaced. A lot of people won't even be able to get to work.
Now the government could step up and say, "You know, that's not really fair. We'll send you a check for the repairs." The problem though is that the bad roads haven't been fixed.
Alternatively, the government could go ahead and fix the roads. It leaves car owners in the lurch, but it puts our economic infrastructure back on solid footing.
It's the same things with the banks. We have a financial infrastructure right now that's in shambles. Sure, it would be nice to help out individuals, but it doesn't fix the problem.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 11:33:58 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Tracydolls - think of it this way. Let's assume all our interstate highways suddenly crumbled into pieces due to faulty construction. We depend on those highways to move goods across the US, so it's part of our economic infrastructure.
Now, we'd have a choice. A lot of people are going to be harmed by having to drive over bad roads. Tires will be ruined, all the fiddly bits in the suspension of peoples cars will need to be replaced. A lot of people won't even be able to get to work.
Now the government could step up and say, "You know, that's not really fair. We'll send you a check for the repairs." The problem though is that the bad roads haven't been fixed.
Alternatively, the government could go ahead and fix the roads. It leaves car owners in the lurch, but it puts our economic infrastructure back on solid footing.
It's the same things with the banks. We have a financial infrastructure right now that's in shambles. Sure, it would be nice to help out individuals, but it doesn't fix the problem.
GW,
What is the problem though?
will this bailout fix that?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 1:24:56 PM
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GroupW
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The underlying problem right now is that banks are stopped dead in their tracks. Lending in this economy is more than just financing a lifestyle that we can't afford. Most lending is actually to support rational and prudent individual and corporate behavior. While much of the lending that occured in the past couple of years wasn't very prudent, we do actually need SOME level of lending by commercial banks, thrifts, and other financial enterprises.
For example, much international trade is supported by very short term lending that's designed to help companies manage their cash flow. Banks have functioned in this capacity for hundreds of years. Right now, many banks are so strapped for cash, they can't even perform this basic function that they've been performing for so long. As a result, goods are piling up on ships and in port warehouses because the short term cash that normally facilitated this kind of trade is unavailable.
The problem isn't a reduction in lending - that would be a good thing. The problem is a near complete STOP in lending in some sectors of the economy and between banks. This has the potential to bring the economy grinding to a rapid halt - all for no particularly good reason other than irrational fear.
We actually created the FDIC insurance program, the Fed, and other programs to prevent just this sort of phenomenon. The lack of programs such as this are one of the things that made the great depression so deep and long. It just hasn't been enough to prevent the current crisis.
Edit: forgot to answer your second question. Will this fix that? Obviously no guarantees, but it has the potential to slow the process down to a speed that is at least orderly. Banks need some time and breathing room to be able to right-size their balance sheets. That takes time. So far this summer, the market wasn't giving them very much time. I think this should help. It should also give some motivation to the private equity players to get off the sidelines and starting plugging the gap. So far, they've been waiting in the wings for things to get REALLY bad before they started making investments. Bringing those guys in sooner rather than later should help as well.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 1:49:02 PM
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Ps103
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It didn't pass...
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 2:10:33 PM
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tinydancer2
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It did not pass..what will happen now?
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 2:51:58 PM
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GregandJenny
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
We may have to wait until after the election to see anything done.
I agree. However what's the job of a congressmen? To do what they think is right for their constituency or to do what the majority of their constituency desires?
G
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 2:56:46 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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They are scared because most of America does not want to pay the bank for their greed. Most times congress would just do what they wanted and think that there is plenty of time for their voters to forget. Not this time it is just a little over a month until election time. In some ways it is kinda funny to see them so scared yet in other ways it is sad.
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<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 3:03:18 PM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
They are scared because most of America does not want to pay the bank for their greed. Most times congress would just do what they wanted and think that there is plenty of time for their voters to forget. Not this time it is just a little over a month until election time. In some ways it is kinda funny to see them so scared yet in other ways it is sad.
Well put.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 3:46:37 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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When I last looked, Boehner was talking about reconvening with negotiators and putting a new proposal together. No idea what that might look like. I'd kind of thought that most of the house republicans' issues were taken care of in that last draft. The language on homeowner assistance could have been spiffed up a bit, but that was about all I saw.
Will be interesting to see what emerges. I do hope that the substantial provisions of this bill are left in place - I rather liked it.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 3:51:06 PM
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GregandJenny
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quote:
Will be interesting to see what emerges. I do hope that the substantial provisions of this bill are left in place - I rather liked it.
I really think there isn't to much the house will do. The people don't want it.
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 3:52:49 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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The people have no real concept of how economics works. This is when leaders need to step up and do their jobs. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the popular thing to do.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 3:56:10 PM
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bzirk
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So what do you think of the proposals such as Newt Gingrich have made? Changing the accounting, giving loans instead of buying securities, making the banks buy insurance, etc.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 3:56:35 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 676
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
The people have no real concept of how economics works. This is when leaders need to step up and do their jobs. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the popular thing to do.
I agree that people don't have a concept of economics.
However representatives are supposed to do what their people want because they represent them. They aren't supposed to do "what's right" they are supposed to do what the people want. In fact I would say that in this game their jobs depend on it.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Can bailout fix US economy? - 9/29/2008 4:00:57 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
The people have no real concept of how economics works. This is when leaders need to step up and do their jobs. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the popular thing to do.
I agree that people don't have a concept of economics.
However representatives are supposed to do what their people want because they represent them. They aren't supposed to do "what's right" they are supposed to do what the people want. In fact I would say that in this game their jobs depend on it.
G
Actually, one reason the framers of the constitution centered on a republic rather than a true democracy was to make government responsible to the people but not so beholden to them that they would be held hostage to the whims of the populace when it came to poor decision-making like this.
The framers of the constitution designed things this way just exactly for this reason - they really are supposed to do what's right and not always what the people want. It's why they have fixed terms, it's why the Senate has a much longer term than the House. One is designed to be very responsive to public opinion, and one less so.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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