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third party or lesser of two evils?
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| Vote your conscious |
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| Vote for the lesser of two evils. |
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Total Votes : 34
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(last vote on : 10/23/2008 5:56:48 PM)
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 12:45:30 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 396
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
Don't kid yourself. You can choose to throw your votes away but you should not encourage others to do so. Voting for a third party right now would be akin to voting for Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck because neither they nor your third party have a chance to win.
I personally believe that the Mickey Mouse/Donald Duck ticket could do a far better job than what we've been given thus far.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 12:47:15 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I personally believer that the Mickey Mouse/Donald Duck ticket could do a far better job than what we've been given thus far.
Yes indeed! I will vote for Barr, since Ron Paul is not officially running. A vote for either Barr or Paul, though, is not throwing away a vote. Rather, it's having the courage to take a stand against socialism and incompetence.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 12:50:04 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 396
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
Emotionally, you may be correct, but a rational person will not vote on emotions alone. Can you factually state when was the last time a third party has won the presidential election?
I think that you are the one who is voting on emotions. The emotions of fear. Fear of the other guy. I am voting on what's right, and as far as I'm concerned rational. I am under no illusion that Barr will win this election, but I do believe that people are going to wake up to this and either the Dems and Reps will get their acts together, or we will see a 3rd party president and people in other offices sooner than you think.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 1:02:49 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
Status: offline
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quote:
Emotionally, you may be correct, but a rational person will not vote on emotions alone
Who said anything about voting based on emotion?
Telling someone that they are wasting their vote because they don't choose from the top 2 parties is irresposible. If you don't agree with the top 2 why would you vote for them? That's makes no sense at all. I will vote with whom ever I agree with, period. If it happens to be a third party, than so be it.
_____________________________
Deb
"You don't need a New Year's Resolution, you need a Resurection! Dr. Tony Evans
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 1:08:25 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I think that you are the one who is voting on emotions. The emotions of fear. Fear of the other guy. I am voting on what's right, and as far as I'm concerned rational. I am under no illusion that Barr will win this election, but I do believe that people are going to wake up to this and either the Dems and Reps will get their acts together, or we will see a 3rd party president and people in other offices sooner than you think.
Finally, a voice of reason on the ethics of voting.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 1:35:35 PM
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Rockwall
Posts: 465
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
Emotionally, you may be correct, but a rational person will not vote on emotions alone. Can you factually state when was the last time a third party has won the presidential election?
I think that you are the one who is voting on emotions. The emotions of fear. Fear of the other guy. I am voting on what's right, and as far as I'm concerned rational. I am under no illusion that Barr will win this election, but I do believe that people are going to wake up to this and either the Dems and Reps will get their acts together, or we will see a 3rd party president and people in other offices sooner than you think.
rgsoundguy, stampinlady, ekserekseez prove that you are not a bunch of lemmings and state your stance on the issues I posted earlier in this thread (that you ignored):
quote:
# Abortion
# Education
# Gun Control
# Economy
# Energy and Oil
# Environment
# Gay Marriage
# Health Care
# Immigration
# National Security
# War
I do not fear Barack and it is foolish of you to make that assessment. It is also foolish of others to agree with that assessment also. I have stated on here many times about my position on abortion and other issues and and Barack's stance on those issues and mine could not be further from the truth.
I believe that you will not state your positions on these issues, but let's wait and see. I expect a well... but... or something else other than a direct statement on your positions on these issues.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 2:49:48 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Don't kid yourself. You can choose to throw your votes away but you should not encourage others to do so. Voting for a third party right now would be akin to voting for Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck because neither they nor your third party have a chance to win.
It's not about winning. I have no false hopes of Barr, or any other 3rd party candidate, winning this presidential election. But, 1, they have won a number of "smaller" elections, and 2, it's not about winning this year. It's about making a statement. It's about standing out and saying, "We're sick and tired of what we're being served. We want the freedom to express ourselves beyond what the major media conglomerates tell us. We want to be respected as having thinking, working minds that can look beyond the absurd politico thrown at us from the red and blue."
If you think a vote only counts if it leads to an immediate victory, then yes, I am throwing my vote away. I just don't think that small.
Now, you want stances, I will give you stances.
4 Abortion - While certainly evil, I believe it should be left to the individual states to decide upon.
9 Education - We need serious changes here, because throwing money at the system is not helping. Sadly, being home schooled the whole way through, I have no personal experience to speak on this matter.
10 Gun Control - Not a big deal to me.
1 Economy - The government knew about the problems and did nothing. The government shouldn't step in and fix them.
2 Energy and Oil - I'm not educated enough in this area to have definite opinions, but I do believe we should be actively and fervently seeking new, renewable energy forms.
7 Environment - Going green is a fad, stewardship is a command.
11 Gay Marriage - State issue.
5 Health Care - Nationalized health care removes competition, and encourages doctors to be mediocre.
8 Immigration - We should welcome immigrants. But there is no such thing as an illegal immigrants - anyone who has been called that is just a law breaker, and needs to be dealt with in a just manner.
6 National Security - There's too much that goes on behind the scenes here for me to really say.
3 War - We're spending too much money being the world's policeman. Our armies are meant for our defense, not the defense or capture of other nations.
*edited for spelling*
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 2:52:35 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 396
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
rgsoundguy, stampinlady, ekserekseez prove that you are not a bunch of lemmings and state your stance on the issues I posted earlier in this thread (that you ignored):
quote:
# Abortion
# Education
# Gun Control
# Economy
# Energy and Oil
# Environment
# Gay Marriage
# Health Care
# Immigration
# National Security
# War
Rockwall,
There is no need for name calling here. Be mindful of the TOS. I will not report you this time but please be careful in the future. Now I will play your game and address this issues listed above.
Abortion: I am opposed to abortion and do not feel the republicans will do anything to overturn RVW. I know that the Libertarian party at least seeks to return this issue to the states and will not allow ANY government funding for this horrible act.
Economy. I believe in a free market economy. Neither the republicans nor the democrats support this.
Energy and Oil. I believe we need to seek out what ever natural resources we have and allow for a free market to control energy prices. Again, this will not come about from either republicans or democrats.
Gun Control. We need to defend the 2nd amendment
Environment. I will steel a line from Mr. Obama on this one. "That's above my pay grade."
Gay Marriage. I am morally opposed to it, but my political opinions on it violate the TOS of this site.
Health Care. Free market health care
Immigration. Let's enforce the laws we already have before we make anymore.
National Security. Lets be secure without sacrificing any of our freedoms.
War. We should not be the world police.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 6:53:31 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
I think that you are the one who is voting on emotions. The emotions of fear. Fear of the other guy. I am voting on what's right, and as far as I'm concerned rational. I am under no illusion that Barr will win this election, but I do believe that people are going to wake up to this and either the Dems and Reps will get their acts together, or we will see a 3rd party president and people in other offices sooner than you think.
rgsoundguy, stampinlady, ekserekseez prove that you are not a bunch of lemmings and state your stance on the issues I posted earlier in this thread (that you ignored):
I believe that you will not state your positions on these issues, but let's wait and see. I expect a well... but... or something else other than a direct statement on your positions on these issues.
Rockwell include me in the not following the lemmings list.
If the thought is "oh well i wont vote for the 3rd party coz they will lose, then they must not be that much of an anti-abortionist. Because the 3rd party guy is THE MOST anti-abortion candidate. If the anti-abortioniss really believed in their cause, they would push the button for their candidate who is THE MOST ANTI-ABORTION and not the other guy. Because to the anti-abortionists, all they care about is that one dang button... they shoudln't care who wins, its all about pushing that dang anti-abortion candidate button.
by the logic of some around here, if the two candidates were Hitler anti-abortion and Obama pro-abortion, you all would pick Hitler
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 7:11:10 PM
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litfire2000
Posts: 265
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline
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if it's your conscience telling you to vote third party, then do so
_____________________________
Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/5/2008 8:47:18 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
rgsoundguy, stampinlady, ekserekseez prove that you are not a bunch of lemmings and state your stance on the issues I posted earlier in this thread (that you ignored):
You need to chill out. Here's my stance, that I've been very up front about since I first came to these forums:
I have no interest in laws for or against abortion.
I have no interest in laws about same sex marriage.
I have no interest in laws about what is taught in schools, or education in general.
Regarding oil and energy policy, immigration policy, and anything else: I support the one that costs the least to me.
I vote for the candidate who lets me keep the most of my own money. That's why I am not voting for socialists like McCain or Obama.
Got it, Rockwall? Maybe you're some sort of Marxist who wants to take my money for social engineering, but you're not getting it. And that's how I vote. Go read your Communist Manifesto or whatever you do to enlighten yourself.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/20/2008 3:30:12 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
Status: offline
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As Christians, does the lesser of two evils argument even hold water?
Seems like as believers we should all be focused on picking the candidate that best fits our views on policies, etc, and leave the outcome in Whose Hands it belongs, correct?
If Obama, McCain, Barr, Nader, Baldwin, McKinney,.... fits your views, vote for them.
This cycle, I'm voting for Barr and any other conservative I can find down ballot, which sadly seems to be harder and harder to find.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/20/2008 3:38:59 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2101
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
Can you factually state when was the last time a third party has won the presidential election?
Lincoln
_____________________________
Buried In Legos...
Bologna Donuts
Jackie
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/20/2008 3:42:19 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2101
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
I honestly believe that when we vote for a third party candidate we very well may be voting for the greater of the two evils ... because the third party takes votes away from the lessor of two evils without having a chance to win.
I agree. Didn't vote for Dole & voted for Constitution Party. Pretty much gave a vote to Clinton & his 2nd term.
Democrats are the party of death & Republicans are the party of life. The unborn can't vote. The next President will seat up to 4 Supreme Court justices.
_____________________________
Buried In Legos...
Bologna Donuts
Jackie
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/20/2008 3:55:52 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
I honestly believe that when we vote for a third party candidate we very well may be voting for the greater of the two evils ... because the third party takes votes away from the lessor of two evils without having a chance to win.
Utter nonsense.
When you cast your vote, you're voting for the person for whom you voted. The people who put evil into office are the people who voted for the evil one(s).
Vote your conscience, let God be God.
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/20/2008 4:03:16 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
I agree. Didn't vote for Dole & voted for Constitution Party. Pretty much gave a vote to Clinton & his 2nd term.
Democrats are the party of death & Republicans are the party of life. The unborn can't vote. The next President will seat up to 4 Supreme Court justices.
You did not give Clinton a second term - the ones who voted for him did. You did the correct thing by voting your conscience. You are to be commended.
I boldfaced your obvious hyperbole. As a Republican, that statement is truly repugnant. Have you ever met any Democrats? Take it back.
Regarding SCOTUS appointments, there's no convincing any rational person that appointments from the Republicrat or Demoblican candidates will vary in the slightest.
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/20/2008 11:34:49 PM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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This election third party candidates will NOT win.
If you consider it a choice of two lesser evils, ask yourself this.
Can I or the country live with the worse choice for four years?
Do I help stop him from getting elected?
Voting your conscience means living with your conscience for four years for not doing your part in stopping the worse evil.
_____________________________
Favorite Photo Blogs: US Military Doing Good Deeds
US Torture and Atrocities (the blog name is poking fun at liberals not our soldiers)
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 12:18:20 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
This election third party candidates will NOT win.
And if we don't start now, they never will.
quote:
Can I or the country live with the worse choice for four years?
Yes and yes. We've done it before, and if God doesn't have other plans, we can do it again.
quote:
Do I help stop him from getting elected?
Sure, I don't vote for him.
quote:
Voting your conscience means living with your conscience for four years for not doing your part in stopping the worse evil.
So either way, we're going to feel guilty?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 8:49:53 AM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
This election third party candidates will NOT win.
And if we don't start now, they never will.
Third parties need to get people elected to local, state and US Congress first.
A third party president will NEVER ever happen ever unless it has an elected base.
_____________________________
Favorite Photo Blogs: US Military Doing Good Deeds
US Torture and Atrocities (the blog name is poking fun at liberals not our soldiers)
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 9:24:42 AM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
A third party president will NEVER ever happen ever unless it has an elected base.
And this will never happen until people STOP BEING AFRAID TO VOTE 3RD PARTY!
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 9:50:41 AM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
quote:
A third party president will NEVER ever happen ever unless it has an elected base.
And this will never happen until people STOP BEING AFRAID TO VOTE 3RD PARTY!
It is not that they are afraid of third parties.
Until they have credibility of being elected at a lower level, third parties will be considered ultra right and left wing nutbags.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 10:11:12 AM
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stonek
Posts: 145
Status: offline
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The way things stand right now a third party vote is a lost vote.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 10:56:09 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Third parties need to get people elected to local, state and US Congress first.
A third party president will NEVER ever happen ever unless it has an elected base.
They are getting elected on local levels, but the two-party media doesn't like letting us know that. It takes away one of their best ratings-machines.
By voting for a 3rd-party candidate, it will not only send a strong message to future 3rd-party presidential candidates, but it will also encourage those who are considering running for lower offices on a 3rd-party ticket, thus helping build that base.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 11:09:28 AM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
They are getting elected on local levels, but the two-party media doesn't like letting us know that. It takes away one of their best ratings-machines.
Of course, the mainstream media is going to ignore a third party getting elected mayor of a town of 500 people. If they get elected mayor of Chicago, LA or NYC, the media will report it.
quote:
By voting for a 3rd-party candidate, it will not only send a strong message to future 3rd-party presidential candidates, but it will also encourage those who are considering running for lower offices on a 3rd-party ticket, thus helping build that base.
Strong message? What a joke.
Nation-wide they have not gotten enough votes to match what large city mayor gets.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 11:15:56 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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Fribbles: I really enjoy most of your posts, but you fighting a lost battle on this one. You are going to vote 3rd party and that is fine, but you need to stop pretending like it is sending a message to anyone. The only message will be from Barack 0bama to you on Nov. 5th, and it will read, "Thank you for helping me get into office".
3rd party votes generally take away from the Republican candidate, especially this year. The Republican candidate is the only one who can defeat the Democrat candidate, and that is a noble thing. You may not like everything McCain stands for, but he stands head and shoulders above the likes of 0bama and Biden.
Fight the donkeys!
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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